TTSX vs. TSX terminal performance

[Scout21]

I'm seeing that most people seem to prefer the TTSX over the TSX. Supposedly the TTSX expands more reliably. Is there any real difference on game?

 

[jmr40]

Based on what I've read the original TSX bullets in calibers 30 and under got a reputation for poor expansion. Larger calibers less so, the TSX seems to be a good choice for medium and big bore rifles. The TTSX was developed to help aid expansion with smaller calibers. In any case even those tend to need a little more impact speed in order to expand compared to conventional bullets.

I wish Barnes would post a statement on their website with better recommendations. They "claim" expansion down to 1800 fps. But real-world experiences from too many hunters say closer to 2000 fps is needed with most bullets.

I have read some statements recently from hunters on other websites who have contacted Barnes directly. According to them Barnes may have tweaked the bullet design recently and some bullets do in fact work well at around 1800 fps. Some don't. Supposedly the 130 and 150 gr 30 caliber TTSX's still need to impact at 2000 fps or more. But the 165 and 180's appear to work at slower speeds.

FWIW, I'm restating what I've read on the topic. This is why I wish Barnes would do some testing and post results online for people to see. There is a lot of conflicting information out there.

 

[JimKirk]

II agree with jmr40 ..

But I would say 2200 fps is a better lower number for full petal expansion ...my opinion and limited testing ... .284 and smaller

I have asked Barnes several times to what degree expansion does their so called "minimum" velocity gets... I have got no answer yet..

 

[mcb]

I like the TSX but I am using a 275gr .452 diameter and it opens up very well and reliably for me even at low velocity. I am only launching them from my 450 Bushmaster at ~1850 fps and get spectacular expansion.


This one expanded in the width of a medium size raccoon and was recovered after penetrating an addition~3 ft for forest floor. 100% weight retention.

 

[Peakbagger46]

I’ve used exactly 3 Barnes bullets on mule deer. First was a 165g TSX in .308 broadside with good place at about 70y. Deer ran leaving a poor blood trail and needed a second shot.

Second mulie was also a doe but was with 130g TTSX with .308 youth load data at appropriately 80y. Almost zero blood trail and I searched for hours without success. The only big game animal I’ve not recovered. Not a good day.

Last fall I decided to try Barnes again due to various people I respect speaking well of the bullets. This time it was with my 30-06 shooting a 130g TTSX at the speed of light. An 80y behind the shoulder shot put the small mule deer buck on the run but recovery was short.

I’m no professional hunter, but that’s what I’ve experienced. Better have a HIGH impact velocity or aim for bone.

As a behind the shoulder double lung guy, I’ll stick with bonded lead core bullets.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Based on what I've read the original TSX bullets in calibers 30 and under got a reputation for poor expansion. Larger calibers less so, the TSX seems to be a good choice for medium and big bore rifles. The TTSX was developed to help aid expansion with smaller calibers. In any case even those tend to need a little more impact speed in order to expand compared to conventional bullets.

I wish Barnes would post a statement on their website with better recommendations. They "claim" expansion down to 1800 fps. But real-world experiences from too many hunters say closer to 2000 fps is needed with most bullets.

I have read some statements recently from hunters on other websites who have contacted Barnes directly. According to them Barnes may have tweaked the bullet design recently and some bullets do in fact work well at around 1800 fps. Some don't. Supposedly the 130 and 150 gr 30 caliber TTSX's still need to impact at 2000 fps or more. But the 165 and 180's appear to work at slower speeds.

FWIW, I'm restating what I've read on the topic. This is why I wish Barnes would do some testing and post results online for people to see. There is a lot of conflicting information out there.

Unlike JMR I have real world experience with Barnes.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I wish Barnes would post a statement on their website with better recommendations. They "claim" expansion down to 1800 fps. But real-world experiences from too many hunters say closer to 2000 fps is needed with most bullets.

I emailed Barnes back in 2019 about this very issue. The response I got said minimum impact velocity of 2k fps for both the 243 cal 85 grn TSX and 80 grn TTSX for reliable expansion. They also said the LRX would expand down to 1700, but it would require a 1/8 or faster twist rate to stabilize.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I'm seeing that most people seem to prefer the TTSX over the TSX. Supposedly the TTSX expands more reliably. Is there any real difference on game?

I've shot 3 caribou with TSX bullets. (243 Winchester, maximum load of Hodgdon Superperformance powder, 80 grn TSX) Never recovered any of the projectiles. Double lung penetration, exit wound and never found the bullets. Lung tissue looked like jelly. One caribou went down on her side, DRT, and when I ran up on her, there was a pretty good exit wound with frothy blood pouring out of it. (That was 104 yrds.) I took another one at 120, on the run, broadside. One shot, demolished her heart, her head fell down, hit the ground, and she flipped over. DRT. Took another at 175. She sat down on her hind quarters, kept her head up, and I put another straight through her heart from the chest side. (Which I will never do again. Ruined the brisket.) She fell right over DRT.

Yeah. I'm a believer. Just wish I could get a tad better accuracy out of them. I shoot the TSX because the TTSX has been impossible to find the last couple years. I suspect the TTSX might be more accurate.

PS: With a minimum impact velocity of 2k fps, that puts the 243 Winchester 80 grn TSX out to 400 yards. More than enough, but I'm sure it performs better at closer distances (faster impact velocities.)

 

[wombat13]

I have first and secondhand experience to back up what jmr stated. I used 165 gr TSX for years in my .300 win mag, MV around 3,100 fps and eventually gave up because I was not confident they were expanding. Then two years ago my BIL shot two deer with a 180 gr TTSX in his .30-06 (published MV about 2,750 fps IIRC) and had great expansion. So then I loaded up some 150 gr TTSX for my .300. Shot a buck with it and had good results.

If you search online for cross-section photos you will find some that show the TTSX has a larger nose cavity to accommodate the plastic tip. I firmly believe the TTSX in .308 cal opens much more reliably because it has a bigger cavity.

 

[wombat13]

I've shot 3 caribou with TSX bullets. (243 Winchester, maximum load of Hodgdon Superperformance powder, 80 grn TSX) Never recovered any of the projectiles. Double lung penetration, exit wound and never found the bullets. Lung tissue looked like jelly. One caribou went down on her side, DRT, and when I ran up on her, there was a pretty good exit wound with frothy blood pouring out of it. (That was 104 yrds.) I took another one at 120, on the run, broadside. One shot, demolished her heart, her head fell down, hit the ground, and she flipped over. DRT. Took another at 175. She sat down on her hind quarters, kept her head up, and I put another straight through her heart from the chest side. (Which I will never do again. Ruined the brisket.) She fell right over DRT.

Yeah. I'm a believer. Just wish I could get a tad better accuracy out of them. I shoot the TSX because the TTSX has been impossible to find the last couple years. I suspect the TTSX might be more accurate.

PS: With a minimum impact velocity of 2k fps, that puts the 243 Winchester 80 grn TSX out to 400 yards. More than enough, but I'm sure it performs better at closer distances (faster impact velocities.)

Caribou are rather larger than whitetail, correct? I’d think the greater penetration of the TSX would be good in a marginal caliber for caribou.

I’ve found excellent accuracy with both TSX and TTSX.

 

[jmorris]

I imagine what one you pick would be based of impact velocity, I was looking for an equivalent bullet to the TAC Tx in 7mm and they gave me this information.

Any of our 7mm TSX, TTSX or LRX bullets will perform on game the same. Maybe the LRX’s like the 139 gr would be the closest to what you are thinking. Any will work great. That 139 LRX has a low impact velocity of 1400 fps the same as the 30 cal 110 gr TAC-TX.

 

[H&Hhunter]

If I stated the number of critters I’ve killed with Barnes X, TSX and the TTSX you’d accuse me of exaggeration. But I’ll just list some of the species I’ve killed with them;

Mule Deer
Whitetail
Elk
Moose
Caribou
Pronghorn
Black bear
Coyote
Hogs
Springbok
Kudu
Nyala
White tailed gnu
Blue wildebeest
Zebra
Impala
Warthog
Cape Buffalo
Oryx
I’m sure I’m forgetting some

And of those species all are multiples not single kills.

Some calibers I’ve used various X bullets in;

.243
.270 Win and Wthby
6.5/06
6.5 CM
.257 Wthby
.308
.30/06
.300 WM/Wthby/Dakota/WSM
.338
.375 H&H/Ruger
.404 Jeffery
.458 Lott
.470 NE

Of the hundreds of confirmed kills I’ve had with X, TSX, TTSX I’ve never had a failure of one to open I’ve always had superb accuracy and extremely devastating terminal performance on any and every animal I’ve killed with them.

Note;

I did have one weird episode with a 180 Gr TSX out if a .300 WM on a pronghorn. The bullet entered a bit high behind the shoulder then did a 90 deg turn and exited straight up and out of the spine. I can’t promise that I didn’t hit a yucca before it hit the antelope though. So it was an unconfirmed weirdness/unknown if the bullet was unstable when it hit the critter.

So in my experience if you are telling me you’ve had an X bullet failure without finding the critter to confirm I am highly skeptical. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve blood tracked a critter that was “perfectly hit” that turned out to be gut shot or creased through the brisket or the neck muscle or hit in a leg once it was found.

I have on several occasions seen deer hit between the ribs in the lungs take a bit to start bleeding. But my tracking dogs have taught me that most times when the hunter reports that “we followed him for 200 or 300 yards and never found blood” generally were not on the track or just weren’t seeing the blood.

I’ve had poor blood trails with all kinds of bullets. Most of my Barnes blood trails are spectacular because they tend to exit. Gut shots and peripheral hits never leave great blood trails and that’s what most “failed bullet” stories turn out to be in reality.

 

[Flintknapper]

I like the TSX but I am using a 275gr .452 diameter and it opens up very well and reliably for me even at low velocity. I am only launching them from my 450 Bushmaster at ~1850 fps and get spectacular expansion.

View attachment 1110836
This one expanded in the width of a medium size raccoon and was recovered after penetrating an addition~3 ft for forest floor. 100% weight retention.

Similar performance using the 300 gr TSX (.458 diameter) from my SOCOM. All the below recovered from Feral Hogs.

They don't expand like jacketed soft points of course (also shown) but they DO hold together well and expand reliably.

I'm pushing them at about 1800 fps muzzle velocity. Most impact distances were between 75 and 100 yds.