two questions on two AKs

[RP88]

okay, whenever I get the cash and pay off my recent credit charges, I'm gonna be in the market for an AK-47.

I've narrowed my choices down to two models: a WASR-10 (either try and see what I find on gunbroker, or pay the up-front and somewhat ridiculous 450 bucks for one at a local shop), or the SSR-85C Bulgarian (about 600 after all expenses) from AIM surplus.

questions:

anyone have any experience or insight on the Bulgarian? I've always heard that Bulgarian models are pretty well-made compared to just about everything else. Anything I should know?

also, what is the cold hard truth about WASRs? People keep talking about the lemons and the general inferior quality of WASrs when compared to others. I already know about mag wobble and front post canting, and that the finish is not much compared to things like the Red-heads and such from Atlantic, but is the performance (accuracy and reliability) also inferior? Someone give me the honest bit here, because everyone's opinion seems to change with every topic that I've read on it so far.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I'd also like some first hand info on the AIM Bulgarians. I know that Bulgy rifles have a great reputation, as does AIMsurplus.
The WASR will likely shoot reliably, lots of guys are happy with them, but you probably won't LOVE it like i think you would the Bulgarian ( or a Vector, Lancaster, properly converted Saiga, etc.). We're not talking another thousand bucks or anything, i'd bite the proverbial bullet and get the nicer rifle.

 

[wally]

If money is tight, get the WSAR and stock up on mags. Regularly see WASRs at gun shows here under $400 with side mount scope rail, bayonet and two mags.

I've both a WSAR and an Arsenal (Nevada) Bulgarian and the difference is pretty much purely that the Bulgarian looks better, but it sure don't shoot 33% better!

--wally.

 

[Picard]

I'd go with the advice that Wally gave. The main difference will be the finish. If you've got extra money, and mainly want a nice rifle to look at, get the Bulgarian. An AK is an AK, however. They weren't meant to be precision rifles at all so the differences will mainly be cosmetic.

If this is to be a SHTF battle rifle, make sure that you stock up on 30 round mags and buy some Russian ammo too. AK's love Russian ammo.

 

[nalioth]

You guys are not realizing that the Bulgarian rifle in the OP is NOT an Arsenal rifle. It is made of surplus (new) parts by another Bulgarian company.

One of the other forums had a writeup on these, and they seem like Bulgarian WASRs ( the inside of the gas block in the guys rifle was ate up with rust ). They are NOT Arsenal quality by any means.

Nothing wrong with a WASR. I've got 'em in 3 calibers and they all run like ugly swiss watches. If you can hand inspect them at a gun show for the known issues, they are an excellent gun for the money.

There is no difference in the different AKs. They all go bang. They all get 'minute-of-man' (which is what they're designed to do).

The various marketing departments want you to think differently.

Arsenal is rolling in dough, selling off obsolete designs all glorified by their marketing department.

 

[SN13]

I know you're looking for an AK, but before you decide, would you indulge me and head over to the Saiga-12.com/forums?

The reason being, it's an entire site dedicated to Saigas & AKs.

If you ask your question there, you'll get a lot of good, personal experience answers, as most of the major players over there have anywhere between 5 and 25 AK Variants of all types of origins.


Me personally? I'd get the Saiga 7.62x39 (if you don't want .223) in either the 16 or 20" barrel. The conversion costs $70-$whatever-you-want-to-spend and the base rifles are $250-300 and Up. The conversion takes literally 2 hours, and it's not as tough as it seems.

Anyway, Saigas are new, Chrome-lined, Russian Manufactured AKs... My x39 shoots 2-3" grps at 100, my .308 shoots 1-2" grps, and my S-12 shoots HUGE 8' circles of Birdshot at 75 yrds

 

[RP88]

well, for what its worth, I think just about any AK without that dark wood that looks like over-treated deck board looks cool and nice. Polish on something made out of dull stamped steel was never something to me that I wanted as 'shiny'. If I want cool AND shiny, I'll use my sword. However, all-black original AK synth always looked nice, but internal quality needs to match the outside.

As for the Bulgarians...well, that is disappointing. I don't want a 600-dollar AK that only looks good on the outside. That is one of the reasons that I decided against the Yugo underfolders (and because I have mixed feelings on the stocks -- that and the average shape of the gas blocks isnt worth 550 bucks to me). Thanks for that heads up.

I know that I'd be paying nearly a hundred bucks extra for the WASR at the gun shop, but to me that beats scouring gun shops and shows that don't ever turn them up, and fighting over them on gunbroker without the ability to first handle them and check for that 2% chance of lemon and not being able to return it if I receive said lemon isnt something I want to do, either.

also, do WASRs still have that trigger slap problem?

I think I'll check out the AKforums. Thanks for the input so far guys

 

[nalioth]

also, do WASRs still have that trigger slap problem?

Not unless you get one that has been in the dealers hands for a long long long time.

Century stopped using those FCGs a couple years ago.

 

[mr.trooper]

WASRs are OK....They work, but they are chinsy in every possible way.

Get the Bulgarian SSR or the factory converted Saiga from AIM. You will like it SO much better. I run a Vector that was built on a Polish Tantal, and I LOVE it. I will never sell it; i wouldn't trade it for 3 WASRs.

 

[GigaBuist]

is the performance (accuracy and reliability) also inferior?

Reliability should be fine.

Have you seen anybody on this forum ever complain that a WASR wouldn't go bang?

I had one of the early ones. It was fine, but I liked my MAADI more so I sold it off. No great loss but sometimes I wish I hadn't done that.

 

[Atlantic Firearms]

I would have to disagree with the comment on the SSR Bulgarian being a Bulgarian WASR , we move a large volume of AK rifles and have been selling the SSR series for about 6 pls years . They are a nice rifle with a heavier receiver & barrel , the only down side if the finish is a bit weak . Any rifle could come through with rust or a problem, hell look at the problems with the Arsenal 107 series . Below is a picture of the SSR Classic rifles we just got in a week ago .

 

[SJDigriz]

Older SSR type rifles were built / modified / imported by Armory USA / global Trades, now Elk River Tool and Die. I have one and it compares favorably with those Vegas jobs. These are made in Bulgaria and imported by someone else.

Find a good MAK90 and know you are ahead of the pack.

 

[nalioth]

Older SSR type rifles were built / modified / imported by Armory USA / global Trades, now Elk River Tool and Die. I have one and it compares favorably with those Vegas jobs.

Umm, Armory USA was the first importer of Arsenal of Bulgaria products. There is little wonder they "compare favorably" since Arsenal of Bulgaria saw the light and subsequently opened their own company in Vegas.

I've seen more than one report on shoddier-than-Arsenal quality in these new (non Arsenal) SSR type Bulgarian AKs.

Atlantic Firearms: I'm not sure you've been selling these latest stamped "SSR" rifles for 6 years. I suspect the marketers of these are using similar names to create a "recognition" factor with higher quality products.

 

[DMK]

RE: Cosmetics

I got a Romanian a few years back (mine's a SAR1 though). Since then, I've stripped the wood, stained and refinished it, then I Gunkoted all the metal flat black. It looks pretty good now.

My point being that you can avoid the obvious defects with the Romanians and get a very reliable and robust AK. The cosmetics are easy to fix yourself and fun to do too.

 

[coyotehitman]

An AK is an AK, however.

Not quite. The AK market has been flooded with junk in the past 5 years. MOst of the Romanians--SAR1's, WASR10's, etc.--are flimsy pieces of crap IMO. If you want a quality AK, purchase an older Arsenal gun--SA93, SLR95, SLR101 milled, original Hungarian, Polytech, or Russian.

 

[DMK]

MOst of the Romanians--SAR1's, WASR10's, etc.--are flimsy pieces of crap IMO. If you want a quality AK, purchase an older Arsenal gun--SA93, SLR95, SLR101 milled, original Hungarian, Polytech, or Russian

Some are poorly assembled, yes. But I don't see where you get 'flimsy' from.

 

[AK103K]

I had one of the early Gloabal Trades SSR 85C's and while it was pretty, it wasnt a shooter by any means and one of my least accurate AK's. It also had issues with cheap US parts breaking in the trigger group. Another thing that bugged me was, the stock, while pretty, was not the correct length, and shouldering the rifle was annoying. It didnt have a butt trap either.

I'm a believer in getting an AK that was assembled, or at least originally barreled, from one of the original foreign plants. All I've owned that were shot/shoot well. I've owned and still do own AK's from across the price range, and other than the Arsenal kit gun, never had any troubles with accuracy. what you spend on the gun isnt necessarily an indication of what it will shoot like. If your AK wont shoot in the 3" +/- range at 100 yards with decent ammo, its probably not the guns fault.

 

[CBS220]

If you can find an AES-10B for a decent price, those are REALLY nice.

 

[coyotehitman]

Some are poorly assembled, yes. But I don't see where you get 'flimsy' from.

DMK, perhaps I am spoiled, but I have owned a Russian, and currently own two Arsenal Bulgarian milled guns. I have also owned a WASR10 and looked over the SAR1's when they were prevalent. I Owned the WASR10 long enough to get the cosmoline cleaned off it and see what a piece of junk it was; it was returned to the gun store for a full refund. I somehow warped the top cover assembling or disassembling it and the trigger was the worst I have ever had on any gun. The SAR1 I had was flimsy enough that I could bend the top cover and flex the side of the receiver by pressing my thumb into it with the gun assembled. Not much force was applied to achieve these results. These experiences are what formed my opinion of Romanian guns. The top covers on my Bulgarian guns are twice as thick and the receiver is much thicker and stronger.

 

[RP88]

Hitman, when did you get the WASR? From what people I've been getting other feedback from, they've pretty much told me that WASRs that came from the first few batches were prone to the trigger problems and the horrible build jobs that Century did on them. Just curious.

but, like I said, I'm partial to the 'traditional' AK. A Saiga is not out of the question, but I'd like it to have a traditional look. The front-grip area of an AK always appealed to me for whatever reason. Is that possible to have on a Saiga? And how much would it cost?

 

[jdc1244]

but I'd like it to have a traditional look. The front-grip area of an AK always appealed to me for whatever reason.

I agree and know what you mean.

Man, this thread makes me glad I got my Yugo M70 for 409 bucks when I did. Not the prettiest perhaps but it’s reliable as hell and built like a tank.

 

[nalioth]

and the horrible build jobs that Century did on them.

*SIGH* Century DOES NOT BUILD THE WASR. They just import it and add 922r parts.

A Saiga is not out of the question, but I'd like it to have a traditional look. The front-grip area of an AK always appealed to me for whatever reason. Is that possible to have on a Saiga?

Easier than you think. You'll need to buy the furniture of your choice and then go see Dinzag and get a no-mods lower handguard retainer (at $70 it is much cheaper than having the work done on a Saiga).

For more Saiga info, http://forum.saiga-12.com is the place.

 

[sarduy]

go with the wars-10 and refinish the wood

 

[sarduy]

check out http://classicarms.us

the new romanian stealth

 

[RP88]

what are you talking about that being ugly, JDC? If those were still common and cheap, I'd had already bought one and not be debating with myself here