Typical armslist scam to buy

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NorthBorder

NorthBorder

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[email protected]

To

[email protected]

Jul 17 at 8:41 PM

Message from: [email protected]

Message regarding: Ruger SP101 .22LR

Hi do you still have this for sale ???
Me
Still for sale.
Jul 17 at 10:36 PM

Mark Jason Velasco <[email protected]>

To
Me

Jul 17 at 10:54 PM

I would like to proceed with the instant purchase immediately, Am ok with the condition and the price, I just got deployed from your area thats the reason i wont be able to meet to see it but i can contact my FFL holder and can you give me the contact info of you as the person i am about to purchase the firearm from? I can email msg a copy of my FFL for verification if you want. So let me know if you are ready to proceed in receiving the payment right away, it will be in form of a certified cashier check which will be mailed to you via USPS 2-3 working days delivery or Fedex next day delivery, So you ll have to ship to my FFL once the check is cleared. So please kindly get back to me with your details as requested below.

Name to be on check

Full address to receive the check

Mobile number

Final asking price of the fire arm.

Regards,

MARK
*****************************************************end of email***********************************************
This is typically the response from a scammer to my add on Armslist (and very similar to my adds on Craigslist). The first giveaway is the name followed by 4 numbers in the email. The other giveaways are, they never ask any questions about the gun other than if it is still for sale. The body of their response to me saying it is still for sale has several red flags. And these don't usually vary. They say they want to proceed immediately. They've just deployed from my area. They request my name, address, phone, and will send me a certified cashiers check immediately, Certain words like "kindly" or "regards".

I don't take offense or get upset. I just recognize it for what it is. My typical final response to them is "I don't respond to scams". I have tried to find a way to contact Armslist and report this but I am not computer savvy enough to know if there is a way to locate the person perpetrating the scam. I wonder how often scammers end up actually getting a gun this way. Is there a way to actually find out who they are?
 
Interesting post. I am not clear on what the scam is. Would the certified cashiers check be bogus? Since the firearm would not be shipped until the funds cleared your bank I do not get how you would be taken for anything. Or is it such that your bank would not be able to tell the check is fraudulent until a much later date? The body of the letter is much less specific than any buyer I have dealt with online, but I guess I am still somewhat obtuse. Could you explain a bit more? Thanks!
 
You are so right about it screaming "SCAM". Poor grammar, sentence structure and punctuation are always big red flags for me. It appears to me that English isn't the primary language for whomever composed this scam mail. My guess would be it originated in Lagos, Nigeria or some other 3rd world hell hole. The truth is you never know. It could come from anywhere. You can contact ArmsList here: http://www.armslist.com/info/contact
 
il.bill said:
Interesting post. I am not clear on what the scam is. Would the certified cashiers check be bogus? Since the firearm would not be shipped until the funds cleared your bank I do not get how you would be taken for anything. Or is it such that your bank would not be able to tell the check is fraudulent until a much later date? The body of the letter is much less specific than any buyer I have dealt with online, but I guess I am still somewhat obtuse. Could you explain a bit more? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Article on cashier check scams: https://www.thebalance.com/cashier-s-check-fraud-315795
It's doubtful the scammer wants the firearm. They just want to float the cashier check scam. The chances are probably less than 10% that the scam will work but all the scammer has to do is to get three or four people to take the bait out of a thousand scam mails sent. It's better than a slot machine because every penny is profit. Maybe change a word here or there but most scam mails are just cut and paste.
 
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If you ever read the interesting popular behavioral economics works of Levitt and Dubner (Freakanomics and Think Like a Freak, etc.), they go into the hows and whys of some of these sorts of scams.

The truth is they are quite transparent, but that's on purpose. They send out millions of these things. They know that 99% of folks who get them will see through them instantly, and probably 99% of the remaining few will get suspicious eventually. They don't want to waste any time with those people. They don't want them to respond at all, because that takes up their time on people who are never going to send them a penny. They only want the very most gullible, least aware folks tiny fraction of folks to respond, because those very few are actually so unwary that they just might fall for it and lose tens of thousands of dollars to the scammer. So if ten million people received the scam email but only one thousandth of one percent (0.001%) fell for it and sent them $5,000, they just made $500,000.

It's pretty ingenious really. But don't fall for it. Of course report it, but don't expect much in the way of noticeable action on any individual case. There's just too many of these things flooding every sort of system. Just have to keep a wary eye.
 
It seems suspicious to me.

Cashier's check scams of various kinds have been around for a long time. People have even used them to buy real estate and cheated title companies.

I would want some kind of guarantee that the check is good before I would bite. Like having the check drawn on a bank that has a local branch where you can cash it. Or having the buyer agree to 10 day waiting period after you deposit it before you ship the item.

If a check shows up that is for the wrong amount just send it back. Keep in mind it is a major pain for the guy who sent you the check to deal with a cashiers check that is made out to someone else. If it is real, he cannot cash it and the money has already been taken from the account, or at least frozen.
 
il.bill said:
Interesting post. I am not clear on what the scam is. Would the certified cashiers check be bogus? Since the firearm would not be shipped until the funds cleared your bank I do not get how you would be taken for anything.
Click to expand...
Often your bank will make some or all of the funds from a check available before the actual check clears. So the scam is to send a fake cashiers check, and then once the funds are available the person being scammed thinks the check cleared so they send off the item to the scammer. Then the bank realizes the check was fake and they want the money back.
 
Just out of curiosity I played along with one of these guys and asked where I was supposed to send the gun. The "FFL" address he gave me was a single wide trailer on the outskirts of Knoxville according to Google maps.
 
I've played along with these scams to the point of receiving the bogus cashiers check and taking it to the bank to have them verify it as bogus. This is after the scammer refused money order, paypal, google wallet, and whatever else would actually get me real money.

I don't ship the item, I tell the scammer why, they get mad and threaten, nothing happens.

I've also received a photoshopped FFL showing a real dealer, but a different address and name.

These scams are prevalent because they work just often enough as said earlier.
 
Alte Schule said:
You are so right about it screaming "SCAM". Poor grammar, sentence structure and punctuation are always big red flags for me. It appears to me that English isn't the primary language for whomever composed this scam mail. My guess would be it originated in Lagos, Nigeria or some other 3rd world hell hole. The truth is you never know. It could come from anywhere. You can contact ArmsList here: http://www.armslist.com/info/contact
Click to expand...

You just described about 70% of the posters on every gun forum I know about.
 
Well, I did once ask for a copy of hid DL and he sent it to me. I asked for a copy of his FFL. He told me he lived in Illinois but sent me an Indiana DL and an FFL from Indiana (or something like that). I looked on line for the FFL holder. He was legit but said that due to scams he does not do internet transfers.
 
NorthBorder said:
I wonder how often scammers end up actually getting a gun this way. Is there a way to actually find out who they are?
Click to expand...

They're not trying to get a gun. Most of the time they're in Nigeria, which obviously makes it difficult or impossible for you to ship them a gun. There's a whole group of people who make a sport out of baiting scammers like this. Check out this website. http://www.419eater.com/ Skim through some of their letters archive. Some of them get rather long but they are funny.
 
NorthBorder said:
This is typically the response from a scammer to my add on Armslist (and very similar to my adds on Craigslist).
Click to expand...
I have never tried to sell anything on Armslist but my personal policy is to summarily ignore an email that does not specifically indicate an interest in what I'm selling.

The question "as this still for sale" is a typical example. That goes right in the trash without even the courtesy of a reply. Of course it's still for sale, if it were not the ad wouldn't be there.
NorthBorder said:
I just got deployed from your area ...
Click to expand...

That's a typical scam tactic that preys upon most peoples' willingness to help someone in military service. The same tactic is used in car sales ads, etc... anything of value.
 
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The breathlessly nonstop, run-on sentences remind me of running up a hill on a hot summer day. Any sales pitch in person in this style, or on the phone tells me that the seller doesn't want you to take time to think, using their phony excitement.

That word 'proceed' reminds me of the famous Nigerian scams where the thieves do Not want the $500,000, or similar amount they have access to, but need a a good chunk of Your money just to "release the funds".
"Proceed" seems so British that the email appears to have been sent from a former British colony etc.

The nice thing about Armslist is that people bring cash, you don't bother with shipping (it's Not necessary), and the buyer handles the merchandise. About ten deals in two years, mostly surplus handguns/rifles and some ammo.
Not bad for west TN. Imagine the exposure if you live near STL, ATL, DFW, AUS, SAT, Houston etc.
 
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bearcreek said:
They're not trying to get a gun. Most of the time they're in Nigeria, which obviously makes it difficult or impossible for you to ship them a gun. There's a whole group of people who make a sport out of baiting scammers like this. Check out this website. http://www.419eater.com/ Skim through some of their letters archive. Some of them get rather long but they are funny.
Click to expand...
419eater is great as is http://www.scamorama.com/ Very informative and funny stuff!
 
v35 said:
The question "as this still for sale" is a typical example. That goes right in the trash without even the courtesy of a reply. Of course it's still for sale, if it were not the ad wouldn't be there.
Click to expand...

In some cases it's a legitimate question. I bought a gun off a guy on July 4 and the Armslist ad for the gun is still active 15 days later. I've emailed a number of people about a listing only to be told it had been sold.

I tend to say something along the lines of "I'm interested in your (model) if it hasn't sold already."
 
The question "as this still for sale" is a typical example. That goes right in the trash without even the courtesy of a reply. Of course it's still for sale, if it were not the ad wouldn't be there.
Click to expand...
I agree with Elkins45. In various classified ad systems, I'd put the number of folks who bother to take down their ad once they've sold the item at MAYBE 50%. I've contacted many people about things for sale and had them either never respond or tell me it was sold days ago.

So that can be a totally legit question, but the rest of the note usually tells you what you need to know.
 
I have had some of my listings from GunBroker show up on Armslist at prices much lower than originally posted. I contacted Armslist about it and also contacted the seller. Armslist pulled the listing and the seller contacted me to see if I was still interested. I told him yes and got his contact information as well as his phone number and turned it over to the FBI Cyber Crimes Unit.

Another time a couple stopped at my house inquiring about renting it. We had listed it for sale with a local Realtor and someone had hacked the National realtor site and advertised my house for rent. I went online and found the listing, contacted the seller and got a form letter about them renting the house while they were doing Missionary work in Africa. Guess where the listing was? Craigslist. Now tell me, is anyone stupid enough to rent a house, sight unseen, and send money in advance of signing a contract? Apparently someone did.
 
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Ah, I've gotten a few of these lately too, I don't remember the scams being so bad last time I used Armslist...

[email protected]:

hello please is this still avaliable for sale ?

Me:

Yes it is still for sale, face to face transfers only. (A bit suspicious after "hello please":rofl:)

[email protected]:
Hello,

I would like to proceed with the instant purchase immediately, Am ok with the condition and the price, I just got deployed from your area thats the reason i wont be able to meet to see it but i can contact my FFL holder and can you give me the contact info of you as the person i am about to purchase the firearm from? I can email msg a copy of my FFL for verification if you want. So let me know if you are ready to proceed in receiving the payment right away, it will be in form of a certified cashier check which will be mailed to you via USPS 2-3 working days delivery, So you ll have to ship to my FFL once the check is cleared. So please kindly get back to me with your details as requested below.

Name to be on check
Full address to receive the check
Mobile number
Final asking price of the fire arm.

Play with the Chinese scammer and see how much of his time I can waste or just flush his email and move on.... That is the question.

The hello please cracked me up, couldn't get "The China Probrem" South Park episode out of my head.
 
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Another Armslist scammer email I got a few weeks before the one I posted, similar format, slightly different story

[email protected]:

Is your ( title of my ad ) posted still available for sale?

Me:

Yes, it is available.

[email protected]:

Thanks for getting back to me so what`s the condition of the gun ? does it have any faults or defects ? I will like to pay you with bank certified cashier check and will also arrange a shipper from a shipping company to come for the pick up, because that is the only convenient way for me due to my work frame cos i`m a chief security officer at where i work so i`m always busy. I will give you extra $30 to hold the item for me till my payment arrives. So kindly get back to me with the information to write on the check so you can get the check asap i need your full name, address, city, state, phone number to contact you on and last asking price you will be selling the item for me....

Waiting to read back from you asap, Thanks.

Me:

Sorry, I can only do face to face, in-state transfers.

I don't use Armslist very much, but this is the first time I've had any scam responses, much less two in a row. There are no good classifieds sites like GON or The Outdoors Trader active in Wyoming, so Armslist is pretty much it.
 
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Easy, I can take any form of payment. If you hand me cash, you can walk away with it. If you give me a USPS MO, I will send it to you as soon as they hand me cash. If you send me anything else, I will ship to you as soon at it turns into cash.

Pretty simple at that point.

However, I have seen the folks that are selling a $30,000 skid steer for $3,000 because that are out of town but they will have it shipped. Then they say it's in walla walla Washington and I suddenly am vacationing in walla myself so a FTF is convenient and crickets make more noise...,
 
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