U notch sights

[Steve in NC]

I have the Trijicon HD-XR sights on my handguns. They have the U notch rear sight. I’ve never had a left to right issue. Just throwing this out there for your consideration…. Is it possible that you have a grip problem with this new gun that is causing this POI shift left/right, but psychologically you are “blaming” the u notch sight because it’s different?

The only issue I have with these sights and my eyes is a vertical shift of POI. This is because the sights are blurry and the sharp edges to give me equal height and equal light are not there. But I can see that bright yellow dot. And when I shout quickly I do have a tendency to put the dot at equal height which means the top of the actual sight blade is above the plane and I shoot high.
At longer ranges I have trained to put the yellow dot down into the U notch and center it then I cover the target with the dot only and my POI is right behind the dot instead of on top at 3-15 yds. The the fun of getting old.

Hope this helps,
Steve

 

[doubleh]

How does the bottom of the notch make any difference to your sight alignment?

Since it's right in front of me I can't help seeing it. It's a distraction that has to be ignored in my case.

 

[JohnKSa]

I'm also having a hard time understanding.

The bottom of the rear sight notch has nothing to do with sight alignment. Sight alignment is all based on aligning the tops of the front and rear sights with each other and centering the width of the front sight between the sides of the notch in the rear sight. There's nothing to line up with the bottom of the rear sight notch. It's there in the field of view, just like the outside edges of the rear sight and the back of the gun, but it has nothing to do with sight alignment.

To me, the idea of the bottom of the rear sight notch being a problem with sight alignment is like saying that the presence of a hammer in a hammer-fired gun causes a problem with sight alignment because it's in the shooter's field of view.

 

[JR24]

I feel like someone … Wilson maybe, had some comments about the U notch being good because it helped you focus through the rear sight onto the circle of the front sight paint/fiber optic easier than square.

I guess it’s kinda like why I preferred CAP sights for years, the square box in the square notch just let me focus on that front sight properly more quickly, I think. Always worked better than circles or three dot for me anyway, for whatever reason.

 

[drobs]

I'd swap em out for something like this:
$57.99
https://www.amazon.com/TRUGLO-Tritium-Handgun-Springfield-excluding/dp/B000PGOTTM
I have Truglo Tritium NS on my Ruger LC9s Pro.

You will need a sight tool that does front and rear dovetail sights. I use this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VBB1LRQ

You can try using a punch and mallet or just the mallet but I find a sight tool will put the sights exactly where you want them. Or check with your local gun shop, they may have a sight tool you can use right there.

 

[KYregular]

I'm also having a hard time understanding.

The bottom of the rear sight notch has nothing to do with sight alignment. Sight alignment is all based on aligning the tops of the front and rear sights with each other and centering the width of the front sight between the sides of the notch in the rear sight. There's nothing to line up with the bottom of the rear sight notch. It's there in the field of view, just like the outside edges of the rear sight and the back of the gun, but it has nothing to do with sight alignment.

To me, the idea of the bottom of the rear sight notch being a problem with sight alignment is like saying that the presence of a hammer in a hammer-fired gun causes a problem with sight alignment because it's in the shooter's field of view.

you still have to have the front sight in the middle between the two rear dots, which is where I'm having issues.

 

[ms6852]

I don't have the issue you have, namely because I do not concentrate on the bottom of the sight to see if the front sight is centered. I just concentrate that there is equal spaces on both sides of the front sight in relation to the rear sight.

 

[Average Joe]

Not a fan of U sights, I passed on a Hellcat because of them... setteled on a Sig P365 instead.

 

[9mmepiphany]

you still have to have the front sight in the middle between the two rear dots, which is where I'm having issues.

Simple solution: black out the dots on the rear sight

It will be less distracting to your eye picking up the sights and make perceiving the correct alignment of the sights faster

 

[JohnKSa]

you still have to have the front sight in the middle between the two rear dots, which is where I'm having issues.

Ignore the dots. The dots are there for low-light or for very rapid shooting where precise sight alignment is not possible or all that critical. For normal operation, all that matters is lining up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight and making sure that the front sight is centered between the SIDES of the rear sight notch.

 

[KYregular]

Ignore the dots. The dots are there for low-light or for very rapid shooting where precise sight alignment is not possible or all that critical. For normal operation, all that matters is lining up the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight and making sure that the front sight is centered between the SIDES of the rear sight notch.

Been doing that for years and years with square notch but u notch is just an adjustment. Rapid fire for me means taking the first shot thru the sights with a strong locked out grip and solid recovery each shot.

 

[vindag]

Good article t thhe U Notch sight hers: https://www.thearmorylife.com/understanding-the-hellcat-u-dot/

I think a U notch sight makes accurate aiming more difficult because the bottom of the U is an arc rather than the crotch of a V or the squared of bottom of a Glock style sight. The right angles of the Glock sights and the converging lines of the V notch seem (to me) to make centering the front sight easier. The trick would be to get ignore the arc of the U notch and focus on the vertical sides. Center within the space would be easier for the eye to adjust. I think the subconscious tendency would be to try to place the front sight dot midway on the arc. SO I think you have to learn the focus on the vertical sides of the rear sight.

View attachment 1160532

I have put every sight imaginable on my pistols, Truglo TFX Pro and Trijicon HD Night Sights favorites. I can still pick up those cheap plastic Glock sights better than all of them. At my indoor pistol range, it isn't dark enough for the tritium or light enough for the fiber optic to shine. I seem to see that Glock big front white dot and put it right into the squared white line rear bottom of the Glock OEM sights very well, so I'm very accurate with those sights. Lol, I almost feel guilty keeping a couple of my Glocks with the stock sights, because at my range everyone gets rid of them.

 

[Shipwreck]

I once had a Wilson Beretta, and it came with a "U" notch rear sight. I have owned a TON of Berettas over the years, and I know how to shoot them. I could not shoot the gun as well with that rear sight.

I had Trijicon install a regular Brigadier rear night sight, with a square notch. I could shoot the gun much better afterwards.

I don't usually buy a gun that has to have the sights replaced immediately. Glocks are the only exception for me on that, sometimes. But, I generally pass on guns that have a U notch rear sight. I do not like them at all.

 

[KYregular]

I once had a Wilson Beretta, and it came with a "U" notch rear sight. I have owned a TON of Berettas over the years, and I know how to shoot them. I could not shoot the gun as well with that rear sight.

I had Trijicon install a regular Brigadier rear night sight, with a square notch. I could shoot the gun much better afterwards.

I don't usually buy a gun that has to have the sights replaced immediately. Glocks are the only exception for me on that, sometimes. But, I generally pass on guns that have a U notch rear sight. I do not like them at all.

I thinkba part of yhe problem is that u notch sights do not let that tiny bit of light in thatca square notch does in between the front sight post, which may make thing harder if your sights not 20/20

 

[JR24]

It’s an interesting discussion to read because I can’t think of the last time I bothered even thinking about the light between the sides or lining up the top, I just focus on the front site and my hands do the rest.

Guess if I shot bullseye it would make a difference, but I mostly shoot defensive drills these days and rarely slow fire at all.

 

[JohnKSa]

I thinkba part of yhe problem is that u notch sights do not let that tiny bit of light in thatca square notch does in between the front sight post, which may make thing harder if your sights not 20/20

OK! Now this starts to make sense.

The problem with the sights you have is that the rear notch is too narrow and/or the front sight is too wide. That doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not the sight is a U-Notch or a square notch, it's just that whoever designed the sight didn't match the notch width to the thickness of the front sight.

For precise aiming it is critical to have some light around the front sight. If there's none, then it's going to be very hard to get the front sight centered. Even if there's too little, it is a problem. It's rare for a maker to set it up so badly that there's no light at all around the front sight when the sights are aligned, but it's pretty common, these days, for the front sight to be too fat, leaving very little light on either side when it's centered.

Anyway, what you describe is certainly a problem--it's just not a problem that relates to the U-Notch. You could file the bottom of the notch square and you would still have the same problem getting the sights aligned precisely unless you open up the rear sight notch width.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I can’t think of the last time I bothered even thinking about the light between the sides or lining up the top
...but I mostly shoot defensive drills these days and rarely slow fire at all.

Even at 3-4 shots a second, you should be seeing the alignment easily, otherwise how can you call your shots. When you get into into 5 shots +/sec, it get a bit harder and becomes more reliant on your subconscious

 

[JR24]

Even at 3-4 shots a second, you should be seeing the alignment easily, otherwise how can you call your shots. When you get into into 5 shots +/sec, it get a bit harder and becomes more reliant on your subconscious

Right, I’m sure I’m doing it subconsciously I just haven’t thought about it in a while. Thinking on it most of the guns I’ve been shooting lately have either fat front sights or optics, so that recency bias might be part of it too.

Im gonna think about it next range trip more though, and on dry fire next week.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Not a fan of U sights, I passed on a Hellcat because of them... setteled on a Sig P365 instead.

Believe it or not, that’s what attracted me to the Hellcat….which is now my summer carry over my P365.

 

[doubleh]

OK, Let' see if anyone can understand this? Hammers are below your line of sight when cocked or at least mine are and I pay no attention to them. A plain black u notch is not a problem but the one's with a white line around the bottom of the U is what bothers me as it is something that is out of place to what I have used for most of my life. If I wanted to I could get used to the line being there but there are too many square notch rear sights for me to make the effort. It is like the Glock grip. It is different and annoying to me. I am sure I could adapt to it if I wanted to but I don't.