Uberti 1851 Navy bore/chamber size

[Titanvk56]

My dial calipers showed up today so I was able to measure my '51 Navy.

If I used the calipers correctly, all of the cylinder chambers measured .373/.374 and the bore measured .365.

The .380 balls from Track of the Wolf should have worked unless they were sized wrong.

Maybe I should try the .380 balls from Dixie.

Speer and Hornady .375 balls do not work so I have been using Hornady .395 balls and getting 5" inch groups at 25 yards.

Short of making my own, does anybody have any suggestions?

 

[Mausermike]

What do the balls you have measure with the calipers?

 

[Phantom Captain]

I don't know, that just sounds so weird to me. It seems a bunch of guys have problems with the ball sizes but I can't for the life of me figure out why.

I cast my own .375 (lyman mold) and don't have any problems ever. I have three Uberti Navies, a '51 a '61 and a '61 from 1970 and a Pietta '58 New model Navy .36 and the balls are perfect in all four.

I have used some boxes of Hornady .375s and those worked just fine too. Speer I didn't like though as they seemed to pull up on the rammer at times.

On top of that I have a few .44s (two '60 Armies Colt 2nd gen and Pietta, '58 NMA Uberti and an Uberti Walker and Dragoon) and use nothing but my cast .454 (lyman mold) balls also with no problems.

Just strange.

 

[Titanvk56]

What do the balls you have measure with the calipers?

I gave the .380 balls away but the .375 balls seem to be spot on.

The .395 balls measure .394-.395 and are the only ones I can get to seat without pulling back out.

I use Sagebrush lubed wads and they are very well lubed...too much lube not letting the balls seat??

 

[mykeal]

.373/.374 chambers in a .36 cal are too big. The problem is not the lube. In my opinion the cylinder is defective. .380 balls should work.

 

[whosyrdaddy]

SAKOHUNTER, how did you go about measuring the bore? I ask because I have found that getting an accurate reading from a 7 land/groove bore can be somewhat elusive. My DGW catalog lists Uberti '51 chamber size at .372 and land/groove dia. at .360/.380. FWIW I put the mic on .454 Speer, .451, .457 hornady and found most are egg shaped to varying degrees.

 

[Titanvk56]

In my opinion the cylinder is defective. .380 balls should work.

So should I give the Possibles Shop a jingle?

SAKOHUNTER, how did you go about measuring the bore? I ask because I have found that getting an accurate reading from a 7 land/groove bore can be somewhat elusive.

Yes it was kinda half-ass but I think I was on the lands.

 

[mykeal]

So should I give the Possibles Shop a jingle?

I'm not sure. If they sell the .380 balls, yes. I'd try those before returning the gun. If you can't find any, talk to the Possible Shop about the problem - they may be able to find a source or offer to replace the gun. I'm sure they'd agree the cylinder chambers are oversize and they may want to measure them themselves and either just replace the cylinder or the entire gun if they agree it's defective. I'd trust them in this.

 

[Titanvk56]

I'm not sure. If they sell the .380 balls, yes. I'd try those before returning the gun. If you can't find any, talk to the Possible Shop about the problem - they may be able to find a source or offer to replace the gun. I'm sure they'd agree the cylinder chambers are oversize and they may want to measure them themselves and either just replace the cylinder or the entire gun if they agree it's defective. I'd trust them in this.

Thanks....I sent them a email about the chamber size.

We will see what happens.

 

[scrat]

if you find that its a problem with the balls. The best thing to do is buy a mold. Learn to cast if you do not know how. Casting your own balls will be a sure method of making sure you have the correct size and you will not have to worry about manufacture defects or anything. You can get a mold for about 20.00 from lee precision.com. Once you learn how to cast its amazing what you can do. I buy 50-60lbs of lead off of ebay for about 1.20 a lbs. My last batch was 60lbs. Paid i think 63 delivered to my door. i have since casted over 1000 round balls and about 600 50 cal 320 grain R.E.A.L bullets. I still have a 1 gallon coffee can full of lead to go through. So not only does it pay for itself but you get good quality bullets.

 

[Titanvk56]

How long does it take you?

 

[Old Fuff]

The best way to measure bore size is to get a piece of 3/8" wood dowel, about a foot long, and sand it down until it will just slip through the bore.

Then remove the barrel (from a Colt style revolver) and clamp it in a padded vise with the muzzle down.

Place a slightly oversized lead ball in the breech end of the barrel and start it into the bore with a plastic mallet.

After the ball is started, drive it the rest of the way through the bore with the wood dowel. Be sure you have something at the muzzle end to catch the ball so that it won't drop and be damaged.

The rifling will be engraved on the ball. Measure across that place with your calipers.

Chamber vs. bore diameters can run all over the place, and in general you often find that the chambers are smaller then the bore. In a perfect gun (which is seldom seen) the chambers will be .0015 to .002 inches larger then the bore. If the chambers are too small they can usually be reamed out. If they are way too large the only solution is a new cylinder - or have the seller replace the gun, if they will do so.

The choice of what ball size to use will depend on what the chambers end up as. In any case the ball or bullet must be swaged tight or you can have serious problems. Your bullet rammer’s handle should tell you if the fit is tight or not, projectile size not withstanding.

 

[Bad Flynch]

>If I used the calipers correctly, <

That is part of the problem. The inside measuring jaws on dial and vernier calipers have a very small flat on them. Therefore, they do not give accurate measurements on cylinder throats/ball seating areas.

The only really good way to measure these for you is to remove the nipples on an empty cylinder and pound in a slightly oversized ball to a reasonable depth. The, use the hole for the nipple to insert a brass rod and tap the ball back out, after which you can measure the ball. A very thin coat of oil on the cylinder helps a lot.

 

[Titanvk56]

Thanks Old Fuff....that is good to know.

Bad Flynch...great idea.


I spoke with Don at the Possibles shop and he also referred me to Tommy at Taylor's.

Spoke with Tommy and he checked the chambers on a couple of Navies that he had in stock. They both measured the same as my gun .373.

He said the .375 balls should work and that is what Taylors recommends.

He asked me if I was using wads and I said yes of course...he then said that since there is not a lot of difference between .373 and .375 the wads if thick and spongy can push the balls back out.

So I took his advice and loaded it up without a wad.

25 grains of 3F and a .375 Hornady ball.

To my surprise the balls seated and did not move under recoil.

I still may give the .380 balls from Dixie a try so that I can use a wad.

BTW both Don and Tommy said that they stand behind thier guns and I was more than welcome to send the cylinder in for them the check out.

 

[BigG]

Or, you can take your balls and give each a tap with a mallet or whatever and flatten it a tad. It will fit the chamber then. You should get a bright ring of lead from each seated ball. Then you know you have a proper fit.

 

[Malamute]

Or you can back the charge off a few grains to give a little more room for the wad.



Or just not use a wad,.......

 

[mykeal]

I'm very surprised that Taylor's gunsmith thinks .002 undersize is sufficient.

the wads if thick and spongy can push the balls back out.

I would consider that unacceptable. No wad and a .001" interference is a recipe for a gas leak if the ball is not perfectly round.

I'm quite disappointed in their response. I had considered them to be more professional than that.

 

[mec]

your measurments are what Ive foundon mine. What this has meant is that speer 375 balls work fine. .380 balls of all makes (speer doesn't make them) are ideal and Hornady balls sometimes drop into the chamber because they are not completely round and some aspects are smaller than .375-inch.

Pietta chambers are a bit smaller and hornady balls squash in just fine.

 

[Old Fuff]

According to my latest Dixie Gun works catalog, Uberti .36 caliber revolvers should have a chamber diameter of .372" and use a .376" Round ball.

The barrel dimensions come out:

Button rifled .010" deep, 1 to 32 twist, 7 lands and 7 grooves, grove diameter .380".

Now what "should be" isn't always what it really is, but notice that if these specifications are correct, you have a ball that's been swedged to .372" going down a .380" bore. This isn't good, and it's the reason any serious owner should drive a ball through the barrel and then measure it.

In theory, a revolver set up like this one should have the chambers reamed to .381" +/- .001", and use a .384" to .385" ball.

But where are you going to get balls that size?

 

[TheWall]

Pietta 1851

My Pietta 1851 Colt Navy takes DGW's .376 round balls.

When loaded it leaves a nice little ring.

 

[Thomas Hawkins]

proper size ball

I'm surprised Taylors would tell you to use something different than the manufacturer spec.. Like the other fellow mentioned, the Hornady ball was probably oversized. RTFM man. Get the right info and be as safe as you can.

 

[historynut]

Never had an issue using .375's in my Signature Series '61 Navy. But...

You never know what you're going to get until you measure the chambers. My brother in law and I took his Pietta 1860 Army out yesterday. Before buying any roundballs for it we had a gunsmith check the cylinder out. There were three different sized bores for the chambers ranging from .450 - .455. The manufacturer's recommendation of .451 balls would have caused us some problems in at least 3 of the 6 chambers. We went with .457's and though it was tough to load in a couple chambers it shot like a dream.