Uberti Cattleman II question

[CrypticStatic]

Hi Guys,

I'm a proud owner of a Uberti Cattleman II SA revolver and this one is equipped with the retractable firing pin.

It seems as though I can carry six rounds safely with this added safety feature as the pin is not protruding thus it wouldn't be resting on a live round.

My question is, is it safe to carry six with this gun? I've read articles where the authors say yes, it's safe to carry six but the manual still suggests to carry 5 while "resting" the hammer on an empty chamber.

Anyone have any experience with this firearm? Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[J-Bar]

I have no experience with this new design so my comments are all opinion and imagination.

It will take a few years to find out if this new design works as intended. Until then, I assume Murphy is still on the job and would only carry with an empty chamber under the hammer. If someone is going to be injured using a new design, I want it to be someone else.

Second, I assume you are not "carrying" for self-defense purposes, only for range work or woods walks. Five rounds should be sufficient. As John Wayne said in "The Shootist", if you are in a situation where think you need six, load six.

Uberti's new design may ultimately prove out as effective as Ruger's transfer bar or Smith and Wesson's hammer block, but I don't want to be the one who finds out it is not.

 

[CrypticStatic]

I have no experience with this new design so my comments are all opinion and imagination.

It will take a few years to find out if this new design works as intended. Until then, I assume Murphy is still on the job and would only carry with an empty chamber under the hammer. If someone is going to be injured testing a new design, I want it to be someone else.

Second, I assume you are not "carrying" for self-defense purposes, only for range work or woods walks. Five rounds should be sufficient. As John Wayne said in "The Shootist", if you are in a situation where think you need six, load six.

Uberti's new design may ultimately prove out as effective as Ruger's transfer bar or Smith and Wesson's hammer block, but I don't want to be the one who finds out it is not.

True, this will not be my primary Self Defense gun but rather one I would carry while walking the woods and etc for leisure and things like that.

You do make very good points! Thanks for your input!

 

[red rick]

Uberti says the risk of accidental discharge is reduced , but as any cowboy knows you should only carry with 5 and the hammer resting on a empty chamber .

I just helped my sister in law buy a Uberti Cattleman for my brother . She ordered the Cattleman II and I told her to send it back for the Cattleman . I will not buy a Uberti with the retractable firing pin . A Rep. at Uberti told me all of their SAA revolvers were going to that system . That is when I will start buying Vaquero's , at least you can carry 6 in it .

 

[midland man]

I own a pair of heritage arms big bore series in 45 colt they have the transfer bar system and so it can only fire with the trigger held fully rearward while firing the gun and even tho the manual says the old adage carry only five its due to the lawyers crap! but I can rest assure you it cannot fire unless the transfer bar is fully between the firing pin and hammer and that can only happen once the hammer is fully cocked back and pulling and holding the trigger fully rearward!! these are super nice pistols way better than their 22 counterparts so give them a look see and I bet you will appreciate!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

That design is brand new on the market. I certainly have not seen one yet. It is interesting that the manual states to carry it with an empty chamber under the hammer. I have no idea if Uberti is trying to cover themselves legally or not. The whole point of the new design seemed to be that it would be safe to carry fully loaded with six rounds.

My question would be, what keeps the firing pin retracted? Is it just a spring? I understand that an actuator arm, for want of a better word, pushes the firing pin forward when the trigger is pulled. I assume a spring retracts the firing pin.

There have been instances with some lever action rifles where momentum has overcome a spring and a spring loaded firing pin was able to jump forward with enough force to fire a cartridge. I have no idea if this could happen with the new cattleman design, but it would be interesting to test.

But I have not gotten my hands on one yet.

 

[CrypticStatic]

Here's the deign.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Yes, I have seen that video. It does not show much detail. What it does show is an actuator arm, Uberti incorrectly refers to it as a transfer bar, cams the firing pin forward when the trigger is pulled. There is nothing showing what retracts the firing pin.

Early Winchester lever action rifles used a positive mechanical engagement to retract the firing pin. Until recently Uberti replicas used a spring. It was possible to cause an out of battery discharge with the Uberti rifle design if a round jammed in the chamber and one shoved the lever home vigorously. The forward motion of the bolt and firing pin provided enough momentum for the firing pin to overcome the spring. That design has since been changed, but there are thousands of Uberti rifles out there with the old design.

The only thing I can determine from that video is there is no mechanical connection between the firing pin and the actuator bar, so I assume there is a spring that pulls the firing pin back. Certainly nothing new with that, Colt was using that idea in the Richards Conversions well over 100 years ago.

You can answer that question. With the firing pin forward, if you pinch it with your fingers, and let go of the trigger, then let go of the firing pin, does the firing pin snap back? That would mean it is retracted by a spring. It may be tricky to do this with just two hands.

Not having handled one of the revolvers with the new design, I have no idea if it will be as safe as Uberti claims.

As I said in another thread about this new design, there was no reason for Uberti to go to this design from an import standing, the current two position cylinder pin met the conditions needed to import Uberti revolvers into the US.

 

[dh1633pm]

Red Rick, you said you wouldn't buy, but didn't mention why? Anything specific?

 

[red rick]

I like the 4 click hammer notches and now it no longer has the 4 clicks of the Colt . It looks like another point where you could have something break .

It also seems like Uberti is taking the route of S&W .

 

[Batfried]

The four clicks are gone in the Uberti 2?

 

[red rick]

Yes , with the retractable firing pin system and I was told buy a Uberti rep. that they are going to incorporate it into all of their SAA revolvers buy mid 2017 .

 

[Auto426]

I honestly can't see Uberti adding this system to all of their guns, especially the ones that both Taylor's and Cimmaron import. The original 4 click hammer design is one of the big selling points of these guns for the people who buy them. Add to that that Uberti already has added a hammer block style safety built into the hammer on their Cattleman series guns and Cimmaron and Taylor's both import guns with it purposefully omitted. With the size of the orders that Cimmaron and Taylor's place, I just can't see that system being an across the board change.

 

[midland man]

well i'm glad I bought my two heritage big bore revolvers as the reason I did is they have the transfer bar safety system just like the nef/h&r and yes it does lose some slight historical accuracy but makes it safer to use! and just to add they still look like the 1873 colt peacemakers!!

 

[deadeye dick]

I have the Stallion in .22 .22 mag. The base pin has two notches on it. The first notch just holds the cyl. in. Push the pin all the way in and it pushes the hammer off it's rest and away from the cartridge. A positive safe position. I don't know if the other models have this feature.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I have the Stallion in .22 .22 mag. The base pin has two notches on it. The first notch just holds the cyl. in. Push the pin all the way in and it pushes the hammer off it's rest and away from the cartridge. A positive safe position. I don't know if the other models have this feature.

Yes. I have an Uberti Cattleman that was made in 2001. I bought it used about ten years ago. It came with the silly two notch cylinder pin. Fine for getting it into this country, but completely useless as a safety device. Who is going to be taking the time to depress the cylinder latch and pull the silly pin forward if they need to shoot it? No one. I can't tell you how many shooters have pulled their first pistol at a CAS match and started clicking away because they forgot the silly pin was in the rearward position. I pulled out the silly two position pin and replaced it with a Belt Mountain pin as soon as I bought the gun.

 

[RealGun]

Could be as simple as not yet updating the manuals. Why make the change if not improving the SAA action?

 

[CrypticStatic]

Got to finally take the new purchase to the range and man, do I love this thing!!!! I also discovered I really need to work on one handed shooting. Other than that it's accurate (with both my hands) and a real pleasure to shoot.

 

[Red Cent]

Driftwood, I would think that Uberti just shot themselves in the foot. This evening, I finished tuning two Uberti Hombres with the pivoting safety. On my bill, I stated that the customer wanted these removed and he signed. The pin that is in the first "safety" notch will not work with hourglasses mainsprings. Can't hear the click nor does it have enough power to depress the pin not allowing the sear to enter the notch.
With SASS today, I don't know how many they sell to the cowboys but I won't buy one with the new system. I can get 3 screws for $500.00/600.00, a much better gun than the Uberti or the NM Vaquero.
5 in a SA. Common sense. An analogy is the lady who recently tried to put a sweater on her pit bull. Almost killed her and tore up two others.