Unarmed defense against a handgun

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Not enough data but if mom had no training, she was extremely lucky.

Things can turn out a number of ways.

You say “ boo!” and the two or three guys run away.

Or it just might not be your day and when mom fights back the accomplice just shoots her.

Sometimes training and/or greater physical strength makes the difference, sometimes you are just lucky, and sometimes you are simply SOOL and end up dead.
A woman got out of the Grand Prix, pointed a handgun at the mom and demanded her car keys.
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Not gonna get any Rambo points for this one, but based on countless similar incidents that occur here every day (once to my sister, three armed guys):
1) Get your kids out of the car.(before giving up the keys, you don’t want the person escaping with your kids in there!)
2) Give her the key.

The victim resisted and a scuffle ensued.
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Unarmed and with my kid back there? I give up the car. Not worth getting shot over it.

Then the attacker got back in her car - which was driven by a man - and they fled.
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Guy sees the woman fighting, gets out of the car and shoots/stabs her, kills the kid too just for kicks. Could have happened just as well.

Folks, it’s important here to learn to differentiate macho bs from reality.
A person calmy points a gun at you and asking for your car keys, you give them to him, Specially when there’s another bad guy with him, probably armed.

He’s not excited, high on drugs, he’s clearly interested in the vehicle, you give it up.

Now, lets just say things are a bit different.

“Get in, we are going for a ride”

Now things are a bit more complicated. He’s not interested in your wallet, cell or car, he’s getting you in a hostage situation were once you surrender your freedom God only knows what may end up happening.

Unarmed vs. two? One armed and the other might be as well?

Hard, but if I don’t have a choice, as in someone trying to force me into a vehicle or my house, I’d react push the gun away from me as I strike him.

Twist the gun away, kneeing or punching if I failed to surprise the bad guy with the first strike.
I’d try to do this while getting myself behind bad guy number 1, so as to use him as cover from bad guy 2. If he looks small/weak/hurt bad enough for me to control him, I’d grab him from behind in a neck choke, like a human shiled, and pray to God the gun is ready to fire as I shoot the second guy.

Yes, not easy to pull. But that’s what I’d do if I’m completely disarmed.

Guys, you have to understand that more than likely this woman wasn’t the female version of Jason Bourne, she just acted desperately because her cubs where in danger, and I’m sure it wasn’t the smartest thing to do given the situation.

When my sister got carjacked, she had just parked in front of her boyfriends house, who rode shotgun.
When she saw the three armed guys surrounding her she did the most stupid thing: She tried to turn the car back on, with the guys pointing their guns at her.

Her boyfriend (not much fighting mentality, but kept his cool here) saw that the guy right next to her was aiming to shoot her so he pulled the car keys away from her.
They both got out of the car, the bad guys left with it.

I know this thread is about armed vs. unarmed, but sometimes you have no realistic chance of making it out alive if the odds are too uneven.

One armed bad guy, maybe two? Yes, maybe.

But more than that and you are getting into Die Hard territory, or you are just the luckiest person alive.


Just my 0,02

FerFAL
 
Do what needs to be done in order to protect yourself and those you love. If that means giving up the keys, then do just that.

As far as mindset goes for the victim, a larger assailant may intimidate you because you don’t have any unarmed skills, or maybe you haven’t practiced them against someone nearly as large as they are. Doubting your abilities can hinder you from doing anything. Remember, large people move slow, burn out faster, present bigger targets, and they hit the ground harder. So, from my perspective, their size is really against them other than the intimidation factor. But, again, they are only intimidating because you are doubting your abilities. More than likely confidence in your skills will remove doubt.

A lot of criminals are not looking for a fight. They are looking for easy targets. Not everyone who points a gun at you is willing to shoot you. If you resist for the right reasons, such as protecting your children, then it may be the right thing to do. On the other hand, it could escalate things to the next level which the attacker may not have been prepared to do.

Keep in mind that everything is a tool; laptops, keys, pens, ice scrapers, hair brush, a cigarette in your mouth, etc. People tend to think more along the lines of guns and knives as the only weapons that one would normally be carrying. In reality, no one is normally “unarmed”. There are always options available to you. One has to be creative in the way they handle things and what they do.

If you are going to execute a disarm, the positioning of your loved ones and other bad guys is important. The reason for this is because you do not want to end up taking the gun in the direction of your loved ones because you would be placing them in danger. One thing to remember about disarms is that most people who hold a gun will do so with their finger in the trigger. This fact changes some techniques that might work if someone’s finger were in index along the slide or on the cylinder.

When executing disarms, a good direction to take the gun is upward because most of the time no one is going to get shot if the gun discharges. Of course, it does depend upon the surroundings (buildings) and the trajectory of the bullet when the gun is fired. When taking the gun downward you run the risk of shooting yourself and or getting hit by a ricochet.

A fight is never a simple as what people make it out to be. There are a lot of things going on that come in to play when making a decision as to what you should do.

The only things that you can really control in a situation is what you bring into the situation. Awareness, mindset, tactics, skill, tools, etc. Everything else you are pretty much at the mercy of the situation. You cannot “control” the other person’s actions; however, you can influence them through deception. That is, making them think that you are going along with whatever they want, or maybe you want to manipulate them to a certain position so you can make your move.

Honestly, you take a gamble no matter what you do. You can go with statistics, but remember, the small amount of any statistic has to come from somewhere, and it could be from your situation. Judge the situation the best you can and make what you feel is the right decision at that time.

Obviously, dealing with multiple assailants is far more complicated than dealing with a single threat.

There is no such thing as luck. As far as not having a chance of making it out alive, you ALWAYS have chance… it might be remote chance, but there is a CHANCE and it is that chance that you should be fighting for and not giving up!!!
 
Like someone older and wiser once told me.."Run FROM a knife,run AT a gun"...reversing that only gets you shot in the back;whereas you just may get lucky rushing (within reasonable distance)an assailant armed with a firearm.
 
As far as mindset goes for the victim, a larger assailant may intimidate you because you don’t have any unarmed skills, or maybe you haven’t practiced them against someone nearly as large as they are. Doubting your abilities can hinder you from doing anything. Remember, large people move slow, burn out faster, present bigger targets, and they hit the ground harder. So, from my perspective, their size is really against them other than the intimidation factor. But, again, they are only intimidating because you are doubting your abilities. More than likely confidence in your skills will remove doubt.
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Good point. And there’s more,

A big, strong guy isn’t necessarily a good fighter, even if he's a good athlete.

I once sparred with a guy that was a Rugby player. Big strong guy.
As soon as we start fighting I notice that he looks kind of scared and isn’t throwing any punches.
I punch his own hands hard with a streight left( his guard looked weak) and he hits his nose with his own hands. Eyes start crying and the guy just stops fighting. :p
You can look like Vin Diesel , but if there’s no heart under the muscle you’re not worth your weight in meat, at least as a fighter.

My BIL is like that too. We sparred a bit once, I punched him in the nose (lightly) and of course, it was the first time someone ever hit him so he bleed bit. He got all scared and refused to ever try it again. He’s 6’ 5”, for crying out loud…

Of course, these are the things you pick up when you actually put on gloves and fight.
That’s why I think it’s so important to train in hand to hand self defense in a class where people actually fight. Sure you are using gloves, but it’s better than not even doing that.

FerFAL
 
The problem with practicing disarms with an airsoft gun is that handgun disarms are very fast and decisive. Any finger in the guard can be broken off. I have actually seen someone break their thumb doing disarm drills since they were gripping the gun so tightly. This is not to be taken lightly.
 
My own experience with situations like the OP is that there are really only two types of criminals, the "Shooter" and the "non-shooter".

The "shooter" is generally looking for an excuse, ANY excuse, to pull the trigger. The "non-shooter" won't pull the trigger even if you walk up and take the gun away from them.

However, you really can't tell one from the other until after the event is over.

My own experience has shown that generally an aggressive, unexpected, assault on your enemy using every possible tool at your disposal tends to be the most effective initial response.

Effective tools include...
-A knowledge of pressure and pain points on the human body (for example, don't bother punching the head, it's bone. Go for the soft spots)
-Shoes, rocks, pens, keys, belts, umbrellas, cosmetics (baby powder is blinding and slippery), etc.

Now, lets just say things are a bit different.

“Get in, we are going for a ride”

Now things are a bit more complicated. He’s not interested in your wallet, cell or car, he’s getting you in a hostage situation were once you surrender your freedom God only knows what may end up happening.
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Yeah we used to call that the "death ride". Y'all can disagree with me as much as you want over the previous scenario but I'll tell you this one for a fact. DO NOT EVER SURRENDER AND GO ON THE DEATH RIDE! Even if they shoot you in the parking lot for not co-operating, at least it's likely that SOMEONE will witness the event and call for help.

If you go with them they will take you to the place of their choosing and do with you what they want for as long as they want and I can tell you I've seen with my own eyes that there are things that are MUCH worse than death-by-gunshot.
 
There really seems to be two situations with this and they depend on how close you are to the bad guy...

If you are within say 5 feet you may have the chance to fight back. In this case I would recommend learning a few disarm techniques and how to put someone(possibly much bigger than you) down quickly.

If you are farther away than five feet, I would say the best thing you could do is run. Put something, anything really between you and the shooter and keep running. If they stand still and try to get a bead on you, zig and zag a bit to throw their aim off, if they pursue you run straight and as fast as possible.

Either way, its bad news bringing anything less than a gun to a gun fight.:what:
 
...

I always carry the knife below, (as my secondary) if all else were to fail.

Picture282.jpg


The "advantage of surprise" can work both-ways (at the same time) when it comes to shock and awe..


But, coming between a Mother Bear and her Cubs, is "a force" to be reckoned with, like no other, be it a human or Bear..

How to tap into such power can only be known by those that have had it brought forth upon themselves thru some kind of training, conditioning or, just, pure-Nature's, built-in, best/test of fire..

I always enjoy a meal/thread (of thought) that becomes "food for thought.." as for having/learning "a game-plan" of what IF.. ?


Good job mother.. :)


Ls
 
Get out, let him try to get in, and break his leg(s) with the door immediately comes to mind. With children though, it'd be tough to give up any ground and I would be loudly exclaiming their presence it in that circumstance considering they would be departing with my car. I can get a new car, but the kid is not negotiable.

That said, my wife had her car truck stolen with our dog in it. No violence occurred, my wife was in the store. They dumped our dog about 7-8 miles from the scene and my wife's reporting to the news channels provided us all with a happy reunion with our pet. Here she is now :) man pets dog.... Truck didn't turn out so well, joyride, thrashed, totalled. The pair of folks, evidence suggested, were 1. meth heads (broken pipe found in recovered truck) and 2. repeat offenders (where truck was found, there were about 5 others of similar model)

Articles like this are responsible for my view on guns and appreciation of our position in the world as free citizens allowed to carry firearms to protect ourselves. In this case, the person being shot would not be because of my car, it would be because of the child strapped into the back seat.
 
I'd keep a Mom with me....

Brian@ITC said:
The natural instinct of a mother takes over and they become someone you probably don’t want to mess with.
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Lonestar49 said:
But, coming between a Mother Bear and her Cubs, is "a force" to be reckoned with, like no other, be it a human or Bear..
Click to expand...

Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936) said:
The Female of the Species

WHEN the Himalayan peasant meets the he-bear in his pride,
He shouts to scare the monster, who will often turn aside.
But the she-bear thus accosted rends the peasant tooth and nail.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When Nag the basking cobra hears the careless foot of man,
He will sometimes wriggle sideways and avoid it if he can.
But his mate makes no such motion where she camps beside the trail.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

When the early Jesuit fathers preached to Hurons and Choctaws,
They prayed to be delivered from the vengeance of the squaws.
'Twas the women, not the warriors, turned those stark enthusiasts pale.
For the female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man's timid heart is bursting with the things he must not say,
For the Woman that God gave him isn't his to give away;
But when hunter meets with husbands, each confirms the other's tale—
The female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man, a bear in most relations—worm and savage otherwise,—
Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise.
Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act.

Fear, or foolishness, impels him, ere he lay the wicked low,
To concede some form of trial even to his fiercest foe.
Mirth obscene diverts his anger—Doubt and Pity oft perplex
Him in dealing with an issue—to the scandal of The Sex!

But the Woman that God gave him, every fibre of her frame
Proves her launched for one sole issue, armed and engined for the same;
And to serve that single issue, lest the generations fail,
The female of the species must be deadlier than the male.

She who faces Death by torture for each life beneath her breast
May not deal in doubt or pity—must not swerve for fact or jest.
These be purely male diversions—not in these her honour dwells—
She the Other Law we live by, is that Law and nothing else.

She can bring no more to living than the powers that make her great
As the Mother of the Infant and the Mistress of the Mate.
And when Babe and Man are lacking and she strides unclaimed to claim
Her right as femme (and baron), her equipment is the same.

She is wedded to convictions—in default of grosser ties;
Her contentions are her children, Heaven help him who denies!—
He will meet no suave discussion, but the instant, white-hot, wild,
Wakened female of the species warring as for spouse and child.

Unprovoked and awful charges—even so the she-bear fights,
Speech that drips, corrodes, and poisons—even so the cobra bites,
Scientific vivisection of one nerve till it is raw
And the victim writhes in anguish—like the Jesuit with the squaw!

So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
To some God of Abstract Justice—which no woman understands.

And Man knows it! Knows, moreover, that the Woman that God gave him
Must command but may not govern—shall enthral but not enslave him.
And She knows, because She warns him, and Her instincts never fail,
That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male.

We tend to forget the lessons of nature, the further we remove ourselves from it's presence. It's true when your number is called you are sol. But in those immortal words, attack, attack, attack seem to be a viable option. Or keep mom with you and stay out of the way.:D
 
One tactic I picked up in a class a few years back was compliance until you can move to a position of advantage.

Using OP example- be submissive/compliant as you close the distance and move from in front of the gun. Act scared and shaky, hoping to cause the BG to relax a bit and feel in control. When you get into position, be ruthless and brutal.
 
That's tough one, I think, with no pat answer.


Having no gun and being against a criminal with a gun would be a very bad situation. My guess is that the stakes are critical to the analysis. The criminal's gun is capable of inflicting mortal injuries. If the stakes are high enough so that you're willing to die, then fight. Sometimes this is the case. You will very likely be killed but you will alter the situation in such a way that its outcome may be more acceptable to you. You may inflict injuries serious enough to prevent the criminal from doing what he came to do or you may create a situation in which he has to escape because the noise will bring the police.


Other than that, compliance is the only reasonable alternative.


So, I say if the stakes are low (e.g. your wallet) then comply; if the stakes are high (e.g. your wife) then fight and die.
 
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