underground storage rust prevention

[fariagaurd]

Looking to store toys in a tube buried in the ground long term (years). I've done a lot of research of rust preventatives but not in this application.

I understand Ezox and RIG are great for normal storage. Will they work in this application. What about Mil-Spec Cosmoline?

Toys will be stored in a plastic bag made for this then put in another vacuum sealed bad then sealed tight in a waterproof air tight pre bought or homemade PVC container.

Any input is appreciated and thanks!

 

[Pushrod]

Really, if you are going to do something like that, use Mylar bags with both oxygen and moisture absorbent packs stuffed in them. Then vacuum seal.

I don't understand the need to bury firearms, seems like a waste.

 

[j1]

I understand many reasons for burying guns.

 

[Tirod]

And it doesn't always work out well. A lot of gun caches are compromised by the environment, the participants, and simple countermeasures.

Start here: http://weaponsman.com/?p=6597

It's been part of the "survivalist" mindset since the '70s and for the most part it is based on the assumption that the person retrieving them actually survives long enough to get to the cache. With a developing technology of drones in use by local PD's it's difficult to say how successful someone under the spotlight will be able to pull it off.

Certainly not impossible -

The particular reason to do so means that there is an expectation of no privacy around the normal "home" area and that others will intrude at any time to seize them. A lot of us are going to say if it's that bad there - do what humans normally do in those circumstances.

Relocate to a safer environment with less oversight.

MOST Americans can trace their heritage to another country precisely because their ancesters did that, and MOST of the newer Spanish language speaking peoples we interact with now DID do that. They got the heck out.

What's interesting is if it was so bad back in the old country that America looks great, why some here think it's even worse and they have to resort to third world resistance tactics to survive?

It's based on a mindset. Time for an attitude check.

 

[springer99]

For longterm storage, forget about oils, greases and/or absorbent material bags. What you need are Vapor Corrosion Inhibitors or VCI, either in foam pouches, papers or combination thereof. Google it. Nothing does the job better in a closed environment, even when exposed to moisture. Used them for years in the electrical equipment industry for storing gear longterm, outdoors and they do work. Also used them in my battery box and electrical locker on boats in salt air. Works with all metals and wood finishes.

I got no dog in this hunt, but just wanted to pass along what I've found.

 

[roval]

I remember as a kid in the Philippines waking up one morning finding men standing around our small kitchen table that was filled with guns, mainly shotguns but I remember one of them may have been a Thompson (familiar with it as a kid as that was Vic Morrow's/Sarge's gun in the series Combat) and some revolvers. Martial law had been declared. I later heard they were packed in grease placed in heavy duty plastic bags and buried somewhere in the rice fields. I asked my older brother years later as to what happened.
One guy buried them but the cache was lost as the guy died. It probably would not have lasted many years as the field are under water for months at a time.

Make a map and entrust it to someone else.

Not really answering the ops question but a real life anecdote on the issue.

 

[BSA1]

Well the military surplus guns being imported seem to have been well protected by cosmoline. Then put in a tough tear resistant mylar bag.

The second part is sealing the tube so it doesn't leak. Actually sealing is easy. The hard part will be when it comes time to get it open without damaging the contents.

 

[kBob]

Don't bury anything you can not afford to loose.

Friend buryied a small auto pistol in a peanut butter jar, resoning that a food safe jar aught to do it. He dug it up at the six month mark and it was like it had just been placed there. He replanted. At the one year mark he dug it up again. It was a fussed mass of junk. It may be sort of recoverable but maybe not.

Another dropped an H&R .22Revolver in a freezer bag.....dropped that in the next larger size bag, then shoved that into another with the openings alternating. He then sprayed the outer bag with insecticide and weed killer and put it whole thing n a paper bag he again doused with stuff. He planted it under a concrete slab, having dug down next to the slab then dug back under as far as he could reach. In six months he dug it up to look. There was redish water in the bag and the revolver needed heavy cleaning before it worked. The ammunition was dead. The gun is now ugly and he sold it for a big $20 "as is"

I am curious as to what happened with all the SKS and such buried during the first Assault weapons Assualt around 89 or so with products like the ready made "PVC Vault BATF (Bury All Thy Firearms)" Did those things work? Are a bunch of them still out there? How many have been found by "coin shooters" and other metal detectors?

I was at a local shop a couple of decades ago when a guy that I had seen in the Ace Hardware buying VisQueen and a new shovel got help carting out multiple cases of 7.62x39 Chinese steel core. Kinda wonder if that is still out buried in the county somewhere.

Most interesting discussion on the topic was with the local Anti Police Chief of the time. He said "If you guys bury your guns on your property, we will find them and if that is the case you will be in even more trouble"

My response was "....and if they get dug up out of your azalea bushes who will go to jail then?"

Kind of startled him. Funny thing is the college grounds keepers where redoing a garden area on campus and ran across 100 rounds of 8mm Mauser ammo about a week later in an azalea bed . It was estimated to have been in the ground ten years, but I never got to test any to see if it went boom. Later a few loaded stripper clips of the same were found simply shoved under the pine straw mulch at another area. This was in bad shape, but no telling how long it had been there. Still the finds coming so soon after my comment to him did put the wind up him.

-kBob

 

[blarby]

Second the vote for VCI paper. It can be ordered in rolls from Uline, not very expensive, and they work.

 

[mjsdwash]

just to take out speculation, maybe he's moving to an unfriendly place, while renting the property, or maybe hiding them from a divorce attorney, or going away on a trip and afraid of his kids hooligan friends. There can be reasons to bury guns beyond paranoia, and even so, whats it matter. As far as the question, seal the pvc water tight with some silicon sealant, and make sure its deep enough not to be effected by someone driving a truck over it, maybe even yours if you forget. also, get the utilities marked, so no one legitimate will dig them up later on. Make a map, i know a guy who buried a few 100k in gold, and died. the land was sold to the city a few months before, and was to be evacuated and developed shortly after his death, and the family could not find the money.




EDIT But don't use silicone on pvc, use the stuff for under ground piping. As helidude pointed out, silicone is not a good plastic sealer. I was thinking of the purple sealer when i said that.

 

[Averageman]

Before I buried anything I would look closely at replacing some dry wall and some paint at the back of a closet.

 

[Helidude]

if you are wanting to seal pvc, think about how it works for plumbing.
Use the proper primer and cement. ( cement is actually a solvent )
For threaded ends, use Teflon tape or pipe dope.
If you over tighten, it will split.

don't use silicone for that. It was not designed for that. Silicone peels off all kinds of things.



Don't use Teflon tape on flared or compression fittings. I lost count how many morons have done that at work.

 

[rodinal220]

Zerust bags work great.Uncle Sam uses them with a normal slathering inside(of firearm) of CLP.

http://www.zerustproducts.com/zerust-products/

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

OTOH, obtaining many lengths of 1/2" diameter metal tubing, welding an approximate one inch square of metal at one end, and burying them on the property could yield interesting results in time. Every ping would have to be investigated thereby tying up resources and extending valuable time to clear the area. All sorts of reasons they could be there also. Mineralizing the soil/lawn - a function of being quite "green", to "I dunno, probably a previous owner", and anything in between.

900F

 

[yugorpk]

5 gallongSoda can. The kind they use for Pepsi or coke syrup. There stainless steel with a great tensioned lid and or ring seal and can be found for $30. You bury one of those and it will be fine when/if you dig it up.

 

[skimbell]

Averageman;10259920]Before I buried anything I would look closely at replacing some dry wall and some paint at the back of a closet.

Oh yeah, that's a great idea!
What happens if your house burns down? Hmm?

 

[45_auto]

Oh yeah, that's a great idea!
What happens if your house burns down?

My insurance company cuts me a check for a new gun. Homeowner's insurance covers up to $10,000 in firearms, I'll just have to make sure to stay under that behind the drywall.

If your house burns down the loss of a few guns will probably be the very least of your worries.

 

[LeonCarr]

One saying I hear often is, "If you think it is time to bury them, it is probably time to dig them up".

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[X-Rap]

I sure would never bury them all but having a few scattered about could give some comfort if the right occasion occurred.

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[barnbwt]

just to take out speculation, maybe he's moving to an unfriendly place, while renting the property, or maybe hiding them from a divorce attorney, or going away on a trip and afraid of his kids hooligan friends. There can be reasons to bury guns beyond paranoia

That's still paranoia, actually, to think that normal measures like a safe or relocation wouldn't be sufficiently adequate (and in the case of the hiding assets for divorce/litigation, well, I guess since we're breaking the law anyway, why not stow some drugs and machine guns while we're at it?)

"What happens if your house burns down? Hmm?"
What if you're PVC 'vault' has a Bobcat driven over it and springs a leak? What if the cops/Feds simply use a metal detector? What if it doesn't matter because they knew you had guns at one time, and simply survey your property until noticing the soil is disturbed (thus necessitating that you never retrieve the guns, thus mooting their usefulness)? What if a dragon eats them all?

Besides, you'll have lost all your precious fine motor skill memory by the time someone finally decides to do something, which will be never, and the storied assault with fifty-year-old junk by a bunch of old men and naiive kids will end like all the others. Burying tools to do a job 'later' is just procrastination or fantasy.

TCB

 

[rootie3]

Buried Booty

I live in the north of Wa, State. We have the possibility of the Cascadia Fault unleashing the BIG earthquake. I have played with the thought of planting a firearm outside in the case that my home collapses and I would need to protect my family/hunt in such a disaster. I've not looked into the matter and I find this thread very interesting. Keep the info coming...

 

[Tirod]

Big earthquakes that demolish homes may well bury the inhabitants inside. Common enough and hundreds if not thousands die.

Stick build American frames homes could stand up a bit better as they are intrinsically loose but it still requires high wind type construction techniques to keep walls from working the nails out and falling down. Even so, it's difficult to search them completely. We had a person of interest hiding out in the county and he was tracked to a family members home. After hours of loud music and tear gas he gave it up and left his hiding place in the attic. A family member reported he has shown up with a gun but was arrested without one. The team proceeded to search the home and after 18 hours gave it up. The lead LEO was quoted as saying (paraphrased): "We could eventually tear the house completely down to determine if the gun existed or not but the taxpayers aren't going to welcome the bill for doing that, plus reimbursement of the property owner."

We keep repeating how the cops can tear up the house and find a gun, but the reality is no, they can't. It's Hollywood security theater and it doesn't happen. The taxpayer can't afford it and the results of demolishing someone's home to find one gun would be a serious mark on the supervising LEO's record.

I gave a link to Weaponsman's blog - ex SF who knows his stuff. Again, the compromises are the environment, participants, and countermeasures. If you could store the stuff in vapor proof durable containers, what would you have twenty years later? Old guns that might work after some remediating. It takes members of your group to know where it is so the location isn't forgotten and periodic checks are conducted, which exposes it to discovery. And there are the countermeasures - such as arrest, death, or fleeing that location in extremis which can either bring it to police knowledge or render the cache useless as it's out of reach.

If you can figure out somewhere to hide it I guarantee another human will stumble across it. How many posts in this forum alone of guns found hidden in walls, crawl spaces, and attics? People hide things they don't want others to know about - and lose track of them too.

Caching weapons and not using them is like storing an 86 Vette with 6 miles on it. When you get back to it in twenty years the hoses, tires, and interior will be rotted, oil oxidized, and gasoline sour damaging major fuel system components. Here's the pics of a 57 Plymouth Tulsa buried as a time capsule that year and it didn't turn out well: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...pvt=plymouth+time+capsule+unearthed&FORM=IGRE



And all the time you have the gun buried you don't train with it. Proficiency is going to be pretty low then. Waste of money.

 

[X-Rap]

The rare condition in which I'd bury things would be in alternative sites I may want to go to and live such as lake or mountain property and what I'd bury would be very redundant with regard to what I was retaining for regular use.
I once read that pelican cases with their one way valves were very good for long term storage if you closed it up with a piece of dry ice in it to purge out the oxygen.
I would think an old 5 gallon paint can with the lid seal intact would be good for a secondary container of ammo, money, magazines and a Glock.
I'd also bury around places with old buildings so there was a lot of metal already in the ground.
Some obvious problems would be marking or recording the location and if done so off your own property it could be excavated by others doing development of some kind.

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[stonecutter2]

Burying is a huge challenge in many ways. The air that's left inside the sealed container could condense as temperatures fluctuate, allowing condensation to sit on the firearm and rust it out. Even if you've vacuum sealed it as best you can - those seals degrade or fail over time.

You can certainly try to put silica gel inside the container, which will help buffer any swings in air humidity or condensation. Heat it gently in an oven to dry it out as much as you can, then place inside the container and seal it well temporarily. That will pull a lot of the moisture out. Then dry the gel again, and put back in the container and seal it permanently. The silica will buffer the amount of moisture in the air. This, of course, will do nothing if the seal is broken on the container.

Be sure you label the container in some way to indicate which side to open at, and leave that side empty, so nothing inside will get damaged when it's cut open.

 

[rbernie]

What you need are Vapor Corrosion Inhibitors or VCI, either in foam pouches, papers or combination thereof. Google it. Nothing does the job better in a closed environment, even when exposed to moisture.

This.

Although I gotta say, most folk that I know that started out by burying things wound up deciding that renting a couple of small storage units was a whole lot better from an access and property control perspective.