Unintentional double-tap on AR build

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Grayman

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I recently built myself an AR, which I'm very pleased with overall, but I took it to the range today for the first time to sight it in, and I'm having a trigger issue.

Every few rounds, my rifle fired two rounds in rapid succession - like a "three-round" burst - but only 2 rounds.

The trigger I used for this build was "custom-tuned" (before I bought it) - and I paid what one might expect for a "custom" trigger. But now I'm thinking it was a mistake.

Anyone know what might be causing this 2-round burst issue?
 
read this;
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68590
A Wisconsin man today surrendered to federal authorities to begin serving a 30-month prison term for having a broken rifle, prompting the Gun Owners of America to issue a warning about the owner's liability should any semi-automatic weapon ever misfire.

"A gun that malfunctions is not a machine gun," Larry Pratt, executive director of GOA, said. "What the [federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives] has done in the [David] Olofson case has set a precedent that could make any of the millions of Americans that own semi-automatic firearms suddenly the owner [of] an unregistered machine gun at the moment the gun malfunctions."

Officials with Gun Owners of America told WND they met with Olofson today before he surrendered to federal authorities for his prison term. U.S. District Judge Charles Clevert had imposed the sentence after the gun in question let loose three shots at a firing range.

"It didn't matter the rifle in question had not been intentionally modified for select fire, or that it did not have an M16 bolt carrier … that it did not show any signs of machining or drilling, or that that model had even been recalled a few years back," said a commentary in Guns Magazine on the case against Olofson, of Berlin, Wis.

(Story continues below)


"It didn't matter the government had repeatedly failed to replicate automatic fire until they replaced the ammunition with a softer primer type. It didn't even matter that the prosecution admitted it was not important to prove the gun would do it again if the test were conducted today," the magazine said. "What mattered was the government's position that none of the above was relevant because '[T]here's no indication it makes any difference under the statute. If you pull the trigger once and it fires more than one round, no matter what the cause it's a machine gun.'

"No matter what the cause."

"David Olofson is a victim of BATFE abuse," Pratt said. "He has been railroaded by an agency that is out-of-control."

An appeal is being assembled by a legal team at the William J. Olson, P.C., law firm, supplemented by attorney Bob Sanders, whose career stretches from being assistant director of criminal investigations at BATFE to many years in private trial law, officials said.

Constitutional expert Herb Titus also is counsel to the Olson law firm.

WND reported earlier when Olofson, a drill instructor in the National Guard, was convicted in a federal court for illegally transferring a machine gun.

The verdict came in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.

An expert witness said then the decision was filled with problems.

"If your semiautomatic rifle breaks or malfunctions you are now subject to prosecution. That is now a sad FACT," wrote Len Savage, a weaponry expert who runs Historic Arms LLC.

"To those in the sporting culture who have derided 'black guns' and so-called 'assault weapons'; Your double barreled shotgun is now next up to be seized and you could possibly be prosecuted if the ATF can get it to 'fire more than once,'" he wrote in a blog run by Red's Trading Post.

"Hey, but don't worry," Savage said. "The people testing it have no procedures in writing and the testing will be in secret."

He said during an interview with Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership that Olofson had been instructing a man in the use of guns, and the student asked to borrow a rifle for some shooting practice.

"Mr. Olofson was nice enough to accommodate him," Savage said. So the student, Robert Kiernicki, went to a range and fired about 120 rounds. "He went to put in another magazine and the rifle shot three times, then jammed."

He said the rifle, which was subject to a manufacturer's recall because of mechanical problems at one point, malfunctioned because of the way it was made.

Savage said once the government confiscated the gun, things got worse.

"They examined and test fired the rifle; then declared it to be 'just a rifle,'" Savage said. "You would think it would all be resolved at this point, this was merely the beginning."

He said the Special Agent in Charge, Jody Keeku, asked for a re-test and specified that the tests use "soft primered commercial ammunition."

"FTB has no standardized testing procedures, in fact it has no written procedures at all for testing firearms," Savage said. "They had no standard to stick to, and gleefully tried again. The results this time...'a machinegun.' ATF with a self-admitted 50 percent error rate pursued an indictment and Mr. Olofson was charged with 'Unlawful transfer of a machinegun.'. Not possession, not even Robert Kiernicki was charged with possession (who actually possessed the rifle), though the ATF paid Mr. Kiernicki 'an undisclosed amount of money' to testify against Mr. Olofson at trial," Savage said.

Again, they did this to a CURRENT MEMBER OF THE MILITARY!!!!
 
drop in a timney trigger, and see if prob doesn't go away, if it stays, you may wanna , start over with a new bolt assy., and new action/trigger parts, maybe even a new lower. if still does, melt it. or put it away, and never shoot it again.
 
You probably really did hit the trigger twice. If it's been altered to be a very light weight it's pretty easy to do.
Basically bump firing.

It's very hard to "custom tune" a trigger without it being in it's specific receiver. The pin holes are the least bit out of alignment and you can get this kind of thing. There's probably just not much of the hammer hook on the trigger and you're just firing it twice.

Go shoot it a few times and on each shot pull the trigger very firmly and hold it back, don't let it reset.

If it doubles then, melt it :) And if it does, don't post in public telling everyone that it did it.
 
I read on another forum that slam firing can be caused by trigger jobs where they remove too much material.

Its pathetic when you can't even ask how to fix a broken rifle without being in fear of the ATF, seriously wth?
 
With it unloaded . ..

Did I say with it unloaded?

With it UNLOADED . ..

Give it a few firm whacks on a hard surface with the butt of the gun. (I tend to do it holding on to the handguards. If the trigger lets go then you know that your custom trigger job is at fault. There's a pretty good writeup over on AR15.com on doing a "safety check" on your own build. FWIW

I've never seen an AR15 firing pin so cruded up that it would jam protruding from the bolt face but that's also a possibility I suppose?

Good Luck,
Dave
 
Whenever this happens at a public shooting range, it is usually caused by a
dirty bolt face, a soft primer, or a combination of the two. It is not caused
by the semi-auto rifle receiver, its semi-auto trigger/sear/hammer parts, or its
semi-auto bolt carrier.
 
Is it firing once when you pull the trigger and once when you release? Thats caused by the disconnector not grabbing the hammer correctly and is caused by an out-of-spec disconnector or receiver (or bad trigger job).

Perform a function check with the weapon unloaded:
1. Pull charging handle, release
2. Pull trigger & hold
3. Pull charging handle, release
4. Release trigger, you should hear a 'thunk' but not the sound of the hammer falling.
5. Pull trigger, hammer should fall.

Kharn
 
It sounds to me as if the 'custom tuning' went a little too far and the sear engagement is not secure. Re-cur the notch or re-surface the sear (whichever was worked on originally) for a more secure operation (if you know what you are doing) or replace the assembly with a well established manufactured product.
 
You probably really did hit the trigger twice. If it's been altered to be a very light weight it's pretty easy to do.
Basically bump firing.
Certainly a possibility. I did that once with my stock, nothing fancy at all, 1911. Surprised the heck out of me, and I have no idea how I did it, as I did everything the same as normal, but I must have done a combination of things just right, at the right time. I'd think if I can accidentally do it with a 1911, it's probly not too hard to do it with a rifle with a custom, light trigger.

That said, I'd have it looked at ASAP to rule out a part failure first thing, as if it happens again, with a little bad luck and bad timing, it could cause a LOT of legal grief if the wrong person sees it, and wants to be a jerk about it, accidental, legit, malfunction or not. The BATFE can likely easily get it to happen prety much at will, so they may then decide it's an illegal MG, regardless of you having done anything on purpose. All they will care about is that under the right circumstances i can fire more than once per pull, and you didnt get it fixed before they got to you, so....

just better safe than sorry when you are talking about federal LEO, federal law, and guns.
 
My guess is the disco, as Kharn mentioned.

One question, however - after firing the two rounds, does it malf, hammer down on a live (third) one?
 
I second Kharn's diagnosis. You need to run a function check on the firearm as he mentioned.

I find it is easier though if you remove the upper and cock the hammer with your hand. This method of function check is detailed in the USMC manual.

It is not caused
by the semi-auto rifle receiver, its semi-auto trigger/sear/hammer parts, or its
semi-auto bolt carrier.

Actually, it is fairly common in semi-auto fire control groups - especially where the user has tried to "improve" the trigger and has polished through the relatively thin case hardening on the nose of the trigger. It isn't all that uncommon with target triggers either.

One of the problems Olofson had in his case was that he had some M16 parts in his rifle. That made it more difficult for him to prove the malfunction to the jury and once the jury decided to disbelieve the malfunction, the higher courts take that as fact.
 
If you have a very light trigger on an AR it will bumpfire without you even meaning to. You have to follow thru on your trigger pull every time. If you stop your stroke when the gun goes off it'll bumpfire. This is probably your issue. Do the function test described above to check though.
 
I've already removed the trigger from the weapon and will be returning it to the vendor this week. ATF horror stories or not, it's not something I want happening, inadvertently or otherwise. Thanks for the input everyone.
 
Lots of tinfoil hat wearing individuals in here I see:rolleyes:.

Yes, I read all about that guy who got busted, back when it happened. Then a lot of info was posted about how he was in trouble with similar circumstances previous to the story posted above. He wasn't as innocent as he made himself out to be, or as fellow gun owners made him out to be.

I know we gun owners need to stick together, but don't forget there's idiots who own guns too. Hell if I'm gonna back someone like that:fire:.
 
Lots of tinfoil hat wearing individuals in here I see
It's not so much "tinfoil hat", as it is the fact that the law that defines a maine gun dies NOT say the the fact it fires more than 1 round per trigger pull has to be intentional, or caused by anyone doing anything to the gun. It simply says if it fires more than 1 shot per trigger pull, it's a MG.End of story. Thus, technically, an unfired sks, that nas not ever had a single thing done to it, but has the firing pin stuck from some cosmoline, is a MG the second it doubles. Doesnt matter that it's unintentional malfaunction, just matters that it fired 2 rounds with 1 pull, by the letter of the law. Are you likely to get arrested and convicted for that? unlikely. Is it possible, since thechnically it is a MG, and technically you broke the law having it when it doubled? yup. anything is possible if the wrong person wants to make an issue out of it. Heck, even if the jury lets you off because you prove it was a malfunction that you didnt cause, how much money does it cost to defend yourself in federal court? more than I have, thats for sure. You can be ruined without having to go to prison, or be convicted.

It's just a matter of better safe than sorry when it comes to federal laws on guns. The government is a little picky about them, and tends to vigourously prosecute even minor violations, which ends up costing a LOT of money to defend against.
 
I never liked the standard AR 15 trigger design, it has too much contact pressure between the sear and the hammer.

Before good match two stage triggers came out on the market, it was common for AR shooters to have doubles with a “gunsmithed” standard trigger.

I guess those shooters are just felons in waiting………….

Write your Congressman and ask him to cut the Budget of the ATF. The ATF has too much money if they are going after nice middle class citizens. These agencies only reform after Congressional action, one of which is budget pressure.

It is an election year folks, and Congress is nervous about job security. A nasty gram about the ATF may have results.
 
It's not so much "tinfoil hat", as it is the fact that the law that defines a maine gun dies NOT say the the fact it fires more than 1 round per trigger pull has to be intentional, or caused by anyone doing anything to the gun. It simply says if it fires more than 1 shot per trigger pull, it's a MG.End of story. Thus, technically, an unfired sks, that nas not ever had a single thing done to it, but has the firing pin stuck from some cosmoline, is a MG the second it doubles. Doesnt matter that it's unintentional malfaunction, just matters that it fired 2 rounds with 1 pull, by the letter of the law. Are you likely to get arrested and convicted for that? unlikely. Is it possible, since thechnically it is a MG, and technically you broke the law having it when it doubled? yup. anything is possible if the wrong person wants to make an issue out of it. Heck, even if the jury lets you off because you prove it was a malfunction that you didnt cause, how much money does it cost to defend yourself in federal court? more than I have, thats for sure. You can be ruined without having to go to prison, or be convicted.

It's just a matter of better safe than sorry when it comes to federal laws on guns. The government is a little picky about them, and tends to vigourously prosecute even minor violations, which ends up costing a LOT of money to defend against.

I won't argue anything you said.

I'm specifically referring to that guy who was busted. He wasn't the "innocent, regular-guy, firearm owner" that he made himself out to be. A bunch of stuff came out afterward about his previous stints with the law, under similar circumstances with MG's.

Just because he was a fellow gun-owner, and was a member on quite a few gun forums, people just assumed "Aw man, this guys innocent. F*** big bad government!"

I'm just saying, that's not always the case.

Anyway, back to your regular scheduled programming.
 
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