Stock AR triggers

[Rubber_Duck]

The GI trigger is terrible. Ever since switching my AR-15s to Geissele SSAs I've been spoiled. It makes a huge difference and is worth every peny since you will get a return on your investement every time you fire your rifle. Even an "upgraded" mil-spec trigger can't match it.

 

[tarosean]

If your happy with 1-1.5MOA then a higher quality trigger wont do you any good. If you want to lower that to .5-.75 you should probably look into triggers and barrels.

 

[Captains1911]

It totally depends on the purpose of the rifle. If reliability is your top priority, the GI trigger is the way to go.

 

[greyling22]

my experience with GI triggers echo's the "they suck" crowd. Yes they hare heavy, and long, and creepy, sometimes gritty, and if you are in combat, or just yanking on the trigger they are fine. If you are a competent shooter, they can be made to work just fine. Heck, people shoot well with glocks and m&p's and other triggers I consider garbage.

But if you want a nice clean light trigger I don't think you're going to be happy with a GI trigger. I've worked mine over pretty well using the set screw and lighter springs and it's ok. minimal creep, 3 or 4 lbs. It was great until I put my long range upper on it. now.....I'm looking at high end triggers, I just wish they cost less. I'd love to pay $100 for a 1.5lb trigger. Anybody want to design an accutrigger for an ar?

 

[R H Clark]

It totally depends on the purpose of the rifle. If reliability is your top priority, the GI trigger is the way to go.

Take a look into the Geissele SSA or SSA-E. These triggers are just as reliable as a stock GI trigger.The pull is improved with geometry,not set screws or lighter springs.The lock time is also much faster which will always improve accuracy.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

I prefer a different trigger than the GI. There's more going on than just accuracy associated with a better trigger pull. If you choose the trigger correctly, the reset will be shorter. I found this allows me to shoot faster with better repeatability and accuracy. This may not be important to everyone, but there are additional benefits to a better trigger.

 

[Captains1911]

Take a look into the Geissele SSA or SSA-E. These triggers are just as reliable as a stock GI trigger.The pull is improved with geometry,not set screws or lighter springs.The lock time is also much faster which will always improve accuracy.

I don't doubt it, but if reliability is priority why spend all that money? You aren't going to gain any reliablity with th Geissele.

 

[TonyAngel]

You aren't going to gain any reliablity with th Geissele.

I think the point is that you can get a much better trigger without sacrificing reliability. I know that I used stock triggers for a good while in my field/carry rifles because I didn't want to sacrifice reliability for a better feeling trigger. Now, you can have both.

 

[Red Cent]

R H Clark, if you examine the after market AR triggers, all change the geometry to acquire the good trigger. The geometry will be different on the trigger base and/or the trigger. They either reposition the trigger or change the angle of interface.
Stated before, the factory AR triggers have a negative interface. The trigger will actually move the hammer out of the way to fire.

 

[Z-Michigan]

R H Clark, if you examine the after market AR triggers, all change the geometry to acquire the good trigger. The geometry will be different on the trigger base and/or the trigger. They either reposition the trigger or change the angle of interface.
Stated before, the factory AR triggers have a negative interface. The trigger will actually move the hammer out of the way to fire.

Many of the better AR triggers, Geissele in particular, are basically derived from the M14 trigger design. They are very solid and safe two-stage triggers. The geometry is totally different from a GI AR15 trigger, but that does not mean that they are inferior in any way except cost. In fact, I've not heard of any part of a Geissele SSA breaking, while GI triggers seem to break disconnectors on a regular basis.

 

[Red Cent]

Not disparaging the $$$ triggers. They simply build a commercial trigger for a different purpose. A number of known AR 'smiths change the geometry of the factory AR trigger with set screws.

The adjustable sear for a 10-22 (set screw) is a very neat mod.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

I don't doubt it, but if reliability is priority why spend all that money? You aren't going to gain any reliablity with th Geissele.

Trust me, the money IS NOT going to waste when you get a good trigger. As I said, you get your money's worth each and every time you fire your rifle, unlike other upgrades or accessories you may not use/mount all the time. The Geissele is hands-down one of the best combat triggers.

 

[madcratebuilder]

R H Clark, if you examine the after market AR triggers, all change the geometry to acquire the good trigger. The geometry will be different on the trigger base and/or the trigger. They either reposition the trigger or change the angle of interface.
Stated before, the factory AR triggers have a negative interface. The trigger will actually move the hammer out of the way to fire.

That's called a 'positive sear angle' when the trigger moves the hammer back. All AR triggers should have a positive angle to be safe. You can manipulate the amount of sear angle to change pull weight. Hammer and trigger spring weight, sear angle, the length of the sear seat on both the trigger and hammer all effect the length of pull and the pull weight.

 

[Red Cent]

MCB, if you read the 1911forum and others you will find that this terminology is bandered about if not creating arguments. OK, positive.

Most all semi-autos come from the factory with a hard "positive" angle.

"You can manipulate the amount of sear angle to change pull weight. Hammer and trigger spring weight, sear angle, the length of the sear seat on both the trigger and hammer all effect the length of pull and the pull weight."

Yep. And that is why my Stag has a no creep 3# crisp trigger for nothing. The screw was scrounged from my shop.

 

[gunfighter48]

I used a Timney 4lb trigger in my M&P Sport AR and get 3 shot groups into less than 3/4" at 100 yards with M193 and PMC 223 factory ammo. I just bought a DPMS LR 308 and put a Timney 4lb trigger in it also. They're addictive!!!!!!!!!!

 

[browningguy]

Quote:
If you prefer long, heavy, gritty triggers keep it. But triggers do have a large effect on accuracy, whether you want to belive it or not, you can't change physics.

Ok??? Every milspec I've ever shot was not long or heavy and definitely not gritty. If that's what you think a milspec AR trigger feels like I'd love to see your reaction to something that accutually has a very bad trigger.

I don't own many guns with bad triggers, and when I get one that's the first thing to get fixed. I started shooting AR's when I joined the Navy in 1974, and yes, I still detest every milspec trigger I have ever pulled. I shot bullseye pistol at Little Creek from 76-80 and none of our pistols had milspec triggers, if you were shooting a milspec trigger you weren't winning. I've shot current manufacture milspec Colt and FN AR's and thought the trigger sucked on all of them. The only milspec triggers I have ever liked were ones that had been cleaned up, had different springs installed, etc., guess what, they aren't milspec after you do the work they need.

I think a bigger discussion is what is reliable? And reliable enough? I currently shoot 2 CMMC drop ins and a RRA 2 stage match most of the time. None of the three has ever had any type of failure, although the most rounds I have ever run in a day is probably 400-450 in a 3 gun match with multiple shooters using the same gun. That's reliable enough for my uses anyway. I'm not fighting in one of the 'stans, I don't go dragging my guns through the mud for fun, I clean them just about every time I take them shooting.

In short I don't feel that you need to give up having a crisp light trigger to have a reliable trigger.

 

[WinThePennant]

Before paying up for a custom trigger, I always encourage people to try Stag's LPK trigger. It is a VERY NICE basic trigger.

 

[greyling22]

my stock trigger was as stag. nothing special. 7ish lbs, lots of take up and creep. It modified easily down to 3ish and clean. But I want better than that at 200yds and 12x.....

 

[WinThePennant]

my stock trigger was as stag. nothing special. 7ish lbs, lots of take up and creep. It modified easily down to 3ish and clean. But I want better than that at 200yds and 12x.....

How long ago was this? My Stag triggers have very little take up and creep. They are smooth, and the break is just wonderful. I've never measured them, but I'm sure they are around 5 - 6 lbs.

 

[TonyAngel]

Whenever anyone asks me to recommend a LPK, I always tell them that I've had good luck with Stag LPKs, but I certainly wouldn't describe the trigger as being "very nice." Of course, I suppose that this is subjective and if you've never shot anything but stock triggers, maybe you would think that the Stag is very nice. Still, I'm having a little trouble reconciling how a trigger with any creep at all can have a break that is just wonderful.

Like I said, I suppose it's subjective. I used to think that the RRA two stage was a very nice trigger, until I tried a Hi Speed.

 

[WinThePennant]

Hey, I know that there are trigger snobs out there. And, believe me, that's not an insult. I'm just saying that for 95% of the folks out there, the Stag trigger that comes with their LPK is simply a GREAT milspec trigger. I don't think there's a better milspec trigger out there. Some just as good, but not better.

 

[skywalkrNCSU]

The GI trigger is terrible. Ever since switching my AR-15s to Geissele SSAs I've been spoiled. It makes a huge difference and is worth every peny since you will get a return on your investement every time you fire your rifle. Even an "upgraded" mil-spec trigger can't match it.

This. I absolutely hate the GI trigger, complete garbage. I shot my Dad's AR a few weeks ago after shooting mine (his has a GI trigger, mine has the SSA-E) and it just felt so cheap. I can't think of any upgrade that is worth more than a nice trigger, I would rather have a bone stock AR with a nice trigger than a tricked out one with a GI trigger in it any day of the week.

 

[danoam]

I have no problem at all with a good GI trigger. I installed a ALG Defense trigger in mine to replace the awful Bushmaster trigger in my lower. The ALG trigger is excellent while the Bushmaster that came from a lower parts kit that I bought (which was missing several parts) even after a polishing had a terrible feel to it. I could tell while polishing that the steel used in the Bushmaster parts was soft and the polishing did not last.

 

[Girodin]

I don't doubt it, but if reliability is priority why spend all that money? You aren't going to gain any reliablity with th Geissele.

Well lets start with the word priority. It means "highest or higher in importance, rank, privilege." Priority is not the same as exclusive focus or concern. Reliability is the priority on a defensive gun. However, that is a very very long ways from meaning it is the only concern or that one wouldn't happily take the advantages of better trigger if reliability would not be adversely affected.

You spend the the extra money not because it gains additional reliability but because it vastly improves the trigger without sacrificing reliability. It in essence allows you to have your cake and eat it too.