Unsafe Guy at the Range Today

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Sounds familiar

good times on the skeet range

Reminds me of the the time we did a project at Remington. One of our team members who NEVER touched a gun before. Was firing a large caliber handgun (think it was a 45 or 50 cal) at the range. With the gun still loaded, safety off, finger on the trigger, gun pointed level about mid torso height, she turns to all of us on her right side to tell us how awesome the gun is and swept the line. First time I ever dove on the floor at a range and i was joined by a half a dozen people.

yeah, good times. I have to admit, like the OP, she got the riot act from me and the other people laying on the floor.
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AirForceShooter said:
This sounds like a guy that doesn't know any better.
Playing DI didn't accomplish anything.

Teach him. Don't bereate him.

AFS
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Let me pass on a little more information. The fellow was an older gent (I'm 56), quite a big fellow (450-500 lbs) and having difficulty walking with a cane. I had briefly talked to the individual (nice gun, etc.) and I had gotten the impression he was a long time shooter, with many firearms. He was not a new shooter. When he first fumbled the loaded gun, I got the distinct impression that he was just very careless. He had not walked fully into the shooting station, was fumbling with the gun, didn't seem to be in control of it, and loaded it with no intention of shooting it at that time. His, shooting partner (daughter, I guess) was set up at the last station and swept up brass and prepared the station to use, so I had the thought they both were very familiar with range shooting. In fact they seemed very familiar with this particular range.
I'm not defending my actions and I always help new shooters get a good safe start but I'm pretty sure I was just watching a fellow who was just very careless and casual about firearms handling. In the time of about 10 minutes he had demonstrated twice that a ND was just around the corner.
The behind the line hammer drop, fumbling and then dropping the gun was the last straw, so I clearly stated what was expected; muzzles down range, open actions and safe handling. I think I would do the same thing again. It wasn't a learning opportunity, In fact he defended his actions saying he was just putting the gun away.
If I was the RO, I would have corrected his first action and suggested the common safety tips and made sure he was fully into the shooting station and had good muzzle discipline. Fumbling the gun twice and the gun drop put my life in jeopardy and that's when I clearly stated some range rules, I didn't go DI but I sure could have without much more help.
I'm still upset about the fellows casual gun handling. I'm not sure if there is any way to insure this doesn't happen again, other than to just stop shooting when a new person steps to the line and then switch from being a shooter to being the RSO for a short time? I'm afraid this is what you get when you have an unsupervised range and no range use training requirement.

Thanx, Russ
 
Russ, that sounds like you were justified to me. That he stated he was just putting it away makes me think he would not be listening to you either way. I am spoiled with our range as we have pretty good supervision. Only on rare occasion have i had any issues with shooters that the range i frequent. Judging by the marks on the walls and stands I can tell it is visited by the occasional unsafe or distracted shooter.
 
+1 Yo Mama. I agreed with your statement on the grounds that I knuckled a few privates i was observing during the cleaning phase that where literally playing with their service rifles and pointing them at each other. Your darn right I berated them with everything in the book, in their face as a red monster. Subsequently they went home after doing a TON of exercises. YES. I see the difference in a civilian and two soldiers. The link is that they where also grown adults (even though they dident act like it). The one had previously pointed his weapon at me (he dident make it to doing exercises that time). The same soldiers that did things like I mentioned also had ND's downrage when it counted that resulted in friendly fire injuries.

So go ahead. Sugar coat the guy and butter him up for your best sweetie-pie its ok speech.

I would have hired R. Lee Ermy to explain it to him, even if i went to the poor house.

*edit* I have been known never to pass up an opportunity to help people with proper instruction. I was at the range once on leave in Uniform and helped a mother/daughter team who where holding the pistol wrong and not hitting anything. With my instruction they had immediate results for their first time at a range. I even let the daughter shoot my .45 but thats a different story ;).
 
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Deanimator said:
We had a guy like that at the club range one night. He was a doctor who'd just joined.

The range officer saw him drop his firearm on the floor. Investigating, the range officer noticed that the guy smelled like a distillery. He disarmed him and sent him home. He called a member of the Board of Directors who held an emergency meeting to expel the doctor and refund his dues.

Flash forward a week or two. Local Cleveland news reports a doctor arrested for being passed out drunk on the side of the interstate, a loaded gun (and no CHL) on the seat next to him. Guess who that doctor was...
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Yep, enjoy your alcohol, tobacco and firearms - just not all at the same time. :eek:
 
Gouranga said:
One of our team members who NEVER touched a gun before. Was firing a large caliber handgun (think it was a 45 or 50 cal) at the range. With the gun still loaded, safety off, finger on the trigger, gun pointed level about mid torso height, she turns to all of us on her right side to tell us how awesome the gun is and swept the line. First time I ever dove on the floor at a range and i was joined by a half a dozen people.... like the OP, she got the riot act from me and the other people laying on the floor.
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Instead of chastising her after she made a mistake, it would have made more sense for you to give her basic safety instructions before she handled a firearm for the first time.
 
Sgt.Murtaugh said:
Do not spare someone's pride/feelings/dignity if they are being unsafe at the range. Do whatever it takes to let them know that they are being unsafe. It's not worth risking your life because you don't want to hurt a guy's feelings. Better to berate him than say nothing at all. Obviously, if you have the restraint to do it kindly, and in an educative manner, then do so. But don't stand by idly while some newbie/moron endangers you or other range-goers' safety.

Well done, OP. That guy will likely not make those mistakes again.
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I agree. Sometimes, while you may seem harsh, it makes a point that sticks with people better. Especially if it is a situation where you know that they know the rules, or have been told the rules, and they still weren't followed, or even might not have realized that they are violating them (not a full understanding of the importance, nerves, etc).

I was at the range with a friend of mine, not someone who had really ever shot before. I was a little weary of his ability to safely handle a firearm and explained to him basic firearm safety. After seeing him still not adhere to it, I called him out quite harshly. I could tell that I kind of embarrassed him by his response. However, it appeared to have stuck with him, and after numerous other trips with him to the range since, he is now is very careful about following the rules, and sometimes even more cautious than he needs to be (certainly a good thing, and I'm not complaining!)

The point is, some people respond to things differently. Being polite may not work and you may have to be more stern. Sometimes it doesn't take much and simply saying anything may get them to realize their mistakes, and correct it. But you can't always count on that and really, when it comes to safety, and thus peoples lives, you don't always have the luxury of trying to be polite.
 
but if said individual is an adult he should have known better, and deserved a stern talking to.
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Why would you automatically assume he WOULD know better? As someone mentioned, there's NO requirement to be educated to buy a gun (something I think should change, rights notwithstanding).

You'll get more buy-in and cooperation when you're NOT acting like a jerk to someone new
 
Let me pass on a little more information. The fellow was an older gent (I'm 56), quite a big fellow (450-500 lbs) and having difficulty walking with a cane. I had briefly talked to the individual (nice gun, etc.) and I had gotten the impression he was a long time shooter, with many firearms. He was not a new shooter. When he first fumbled the loaded gun, I got the distinct impression that he was just very careless. He had not walked fully into the shooting station, was fumbling with the gun, didn't seem to be in control of it, and loaded it with no intention of shooting it at that time. His, shooting partner (daughter, I guess) was set up at the last station and swept up brass and prepared the station to use, so I had the thought they both were very familiar with range shooting. In fact they seemed very familiar with this particular range.
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An older fellow who shows confusion at something you assume he'd been familiar? I would have suggested to the daughter that she ask her old man to smile or stick out his tongue. He might have been having a mild stroke.
 
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Russ, I retract my comments. The other side of this argument to provide instruction not reprimand requires that the student show some humility and be open to instruction. Sounds like you handled it well.

I apologize for jumping to a conclusion. I based my comments on a nice guy who just needed and would potentially be open to some help.

Maybe there was a reason his daughter was in the last stall.
 
I had one this summer that made me almost abandon the range entirely. Me and some of my buddies arrive at the range. There are four of us, armed to the teeth with 4 ARs, a M1a, 2 1911s, a Sig, and me with my Ruger P90. (Those awful pre-1911 days...) Anyhow, we notice the range is almost abandoned as we arrive. Since it was near sundown, we figured we'd run a few mag through the rifles, get them zeroed, run a few tac-exercises with the pistols, and call it a day. Immediately, this guy steps out of a parked car, and brings his guns over the the spot next to ours. His first words were: "Scho, did youse guyzz see dat scheriff dat were here". This guy reeked of beer, and could hardly stand up straight. We decided to ignore hims and started firing a few rounds to zero the rifles. He staggers over to us and proceeds to let off a string of unrepeatable language. With that, he produces a fully loaded WASR 10, and while we're at his 10:00 maybe 3 steps past the stalls, on the way up to check the targets, he bumpfires a entire mag a box 30 feet in front of him. This dude was so drunk, though, that some of the rounds were only hitting 5'-10' in front of him. We hit the deck, and then stated we were going home, and he went to his car and got out a tin of ammo and said he was going to shoot it all, that night. We packed up and left in a hurry, and only after we were in the car, half a mile down the road, calling the Sheriff, did I realize my fingers were white from gripping my P-90 so hard. It was one of the most terrifying moments of my life. And no, the Sheriff didn't get the guy. He was gone by the time they arrived. That's my "Scary Range Day" experience. I still can't imagine what he was thinking, though, cussing out four guys with enough firepower to overthrow a small Sub-Saharan African country. :what::what::what:
 
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Quote- "P.S. He's posting right now about the AH at the range today. LOL.


I had an experience where I noticed a couple of guys loading a semi auto carbine on the shelf behind me on the shooting line . I had just got there and hadn't started shooting yet. I said "You guys arent really loading that back there are you?" One said "Noooo" and then stepped up to the line and emptied the magazine then stepped back and told his buddy something like "Let's get out of here- they are letting <deleted> in here". He and I finally agreed on something.
 
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There is absolutely no reason for a gun owner to not know the basics of gun handling before going to the range for the first time. When I started shooting a couple of decades ago there was no one to teach me the basics. I grew up in Chicago - well enough said. I picked up a book and learned. These days with the Internet, no one should be without knowledge of the basics. It is irresponsible. Yes, the guy deserved to be reamed a new one.
 
I talked to my shooting buddy today, he thought I was totally in line and that if he had known of everything I saw, he/we would have bugged out even quicker! My first thought when I saw the unsafe guy first fumble, that he was diabetic and perhaps he had numbness in his extremities. I can deal with that I have numbness in my shooting hand, so I'm more careful when handling guns. However, he had a caviler attitude and I was feeling extremely unsafe.
After talking to my buddy, we decided we should, stand back when a new shooter comes to the line and make sure they are acting safely. The confusing part was trying to shoot and be the safety officer at the same time. In the future at that particular range, we'll just have to put our guns down and make sure the line is looking safe. I'm still a little nervous about the whole incident.

Thanx, Russ
 
There is absolutely no reason for a gun owner to not know the basics of gun handling before going to the range for the first time. When I started shooting a couple of decades ago there was no one to teach me the basics. I grew up in Chicago - well enough said. I picked up a book and learned. These days with the Internet, no one should be without knowledge of the basics. It is irresponsible. Yes, the guy deserved to be reamed a new one.
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And yet the people at the rental ranges continue to be ignorant morons.
Great reason to join a club, I'm not paying to be endangered by know-it-all idiots.
 
I agree that taking a firm stance towards things like this (which usually there aren't second chances, gun goes off, someone could die) is important, but at the same time, you don't want everyone to think that people at the range are elitists and jerks that freak out.
On the opposite end, this guy seriously needs to ask questions and needs someone to take him under their wing and either tell him to buy some gloves to get rid of those slippery sweaty mitts he's got or chill out while at the range.
I admit, every time I go to the range, I feel nervous. Provided I don't go to ranges much (prefer shooting out in the desert), it still makes me nervous that someone is going to screw up and send a bullet my way.
 
With your additional explanation I can see he appeared to be careless instead of a new shooter. So I'll say I'm sorry for the negative tone in my previous post.
 
A few years ago, I went to the Stonewall Range here in the Cleveland area. They were the only indoor range in the area with a 25 yard range that would allow me to shoot lead bullets. I needed to zero some bullseye guns for Camp Perry.

Not five minutes after I got onto the range, the guy to the right of me swept me with his Ruger semi-auto, the action closed. I debated saying something, but elected not to, hoping he was leaving, which he was.

Only a few minutes after that, I heard a commotion off to my left and saw three guys wrestling over a loaded Remington 870, while yelling at each other in Serbo-Croatian.

I finished up as soon as I could and left, NEVER to use that range again. If they're in that BUSINESS and exercise that level of "supervision" of the range, I don't need to shoot there. But then I imagine that cuts into your time listening to your vulgar, ne'er do well buddies drive all of the female customers out of the store. I like to shoot... just not enough to risk my life to do it. I don't mind helping somebody, but if the owners are that indifferent to safety, I'm not going to forgo the reason why I came there in the first place to act as unpaid range officer for them. And they know they've got problems there. They've had suicides on the range in the past.

The private club range to which I belong is VERY serious about safety, since it would only take one person being shot to close us down.
 
Did anyone see that u-tube video about the lady shooting her kid at the range??? Crazy things happen at pay ranges. Lucky for me most of the people I see at the public range are pretty safe and reserve. Though we do get the occasional person that will start walking downrange while everyone is still shooting. They don't even bother to ask to go cold, they just take off for their target. Lucky for them, the rest of us have the sense to stop shooting and wait for them. That was a fun day.
 
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