Unusual problem with S&B 38 spcl. brass

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My DIL dropped of a bunch of range pick up brass a little while back, and in it was some S&B 38 spcl.. It all looked fine, in fact it didn't look like it had been loaded before, but who knows.

So I resized it, trimmed, and tumbled, and loaded it with the same long time usual Longshot +P load,125 gr. XTP, CCI-500's. I shot a couple hundred rounds, mixed brass, Winchester, RP, Federal, Speer, Peters, Starline, W-W, and some S&B.

When I got home, I found that several of the 20 or so pieces of S&B had split from just below the mouth, to just above the case head. The split pieces had an odd looking pattern, kind of like teeth on a gear, rather than a semi straight vertical line.

Rounds were fired from two different revolvers, and none of the other brass experienced any failures. All the loads extracted very easily, with just a light tap on the rod.

I've loaded a good deal of S&B and don't recall any issues before, so I'm thinking it was just a few bad pieces maybe. Or has anyone else had any unexplained failures with S&B.

GS
 
I can't say I ever heard of a case splitting like the ones you described. I loaded lot of S&B brass (9 mm) and never had any problems with it. I split a lot of .327FM brass with the federal factory load brass. They split normally.

That is really weird.

If it did happen to me I would start chucking them on site from that point on.

Had to be a mfg defect.
 
That split pattern happens with some of my HOT loaded 357 plated brass on occasion. I also would try watching it when ejecting them at the range. I have never felt that revolver brass splitting like that was too unsafe but that the brass was now toast. The other thing you might watch for is a single out of spec or expanding cylinder in one of the revolvers. I know you like to load hot but that particular brand/batch of brass might be a bit brittle for your loads. I have some 38 SPL brass that has been reloaded for 30 years and must have 700-800 loads on it and still works for me. BUT I have accurate low velocity loads that feel like shooting a .22 that I use with them. YMMV
 
Gamestalker: The lesson here is S&B brass is CRAP! It is actually made out of "leaverite." So "leave er right" there and don't bother trying to reload it. Range-scrounged brass needs to be sorted carefully since some of it is dangerous to reload. Several of my shooting friends leave worn-out brass at the range once they start to see signs of cracking or incipient head separation. Free isn't always economical if your gun is damaged from case failure.
 
Curator said:
Gamestalker: The lesson here is S&B brass is CRAP! It is actually made out of "leaverite." So "leave er right" there and don't bother trying to reload it. Range-scrounged brass needs to be sorted carefully since some of it is dangerous to reload. Several of my shooting friends leave worn-out brass at the range once they start to see signs of cracking or incipient head separation. Free isn't always economical if your gun is damaged from case failure.
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I agree.
 
I've got a lot of S&B brass mixed in with my .38 Special brass and find that it lasts just as long as any of the other brands. I don't bother to count how many loadings I get with my brass, but it's loaded over and over again.

I watch my nickel brass rather closely, though, no matter the brand, since it splits before yellow brass does. I relegate it to revolver use and only use yellow brass for our .38 Spl. carbines, since a split case will lock them up during a match.

For those tossing S&B brass, you're wasting brass. You probably don't like the fact that the primer pockets are snug, or don't have rounded edges. I don't find that a problem, but then I've been reloading for a long, long time and have figured out many of the nuances of the various types of brass.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
looks like bad metalurgy, or cases at the end of their life to me. I've had 38 brass split, and have sawtooth edges. Those cases had been worked very hard though. lots of hot loads through them.
 
I've got a lot of S&B brass mixed in with my .38 Special brass and find that it lasts just as long as any of the other brands.
Click to expand...

This is my experience as well. Now I don't load any .38 Spcl loads hot. I keep them middle of the road and I've never ran into an issue with S&B brass.
 
I had this happen with once fired Federal 9mm.

It's was just a bad lot of brass.

attachment.php


rc
 
I'm in the "no problems with S&B brass" group. After reloading and sorting my 38 brass for several years, I just started dropping my empties in a bucket when I got home from the range. For reloading my 38 ammo (for three revolvers) I inspected them closely before prep, and just tossed the ones that were questionable (I've got prolly 2k .38 Special cases so no need to stretch things!). There are some S&B cases floating around in my mixed brass stash and haven't had reason to think they are any better/worse than all the rest...
 
Arkansas Paul said:
This is my experience as well. Now I don't load any .38 Spcl loads hot. I keep them middle of the road and I've never ran into an issue with S&B brass.
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I load the crap out of it too. I load a lot of 38 special too, probably more than most.

The square cut primer pockets take done getting used to, I know guys that cut a bevel on them, but I don't. My pro1000 primes them just fine.

I would gladly take S&B brass over many others that crack way too early. I loaded 1000 round last week and have probably 10-15 split cases on resizing. They were all, down to the last one, R-P or federal.
 
I like the snug primer pockets, and considering I prime on the press with a priming die, it's of no issue.

What really puzzled me was the split pattern, so precise and unusual, almost perfect 90 degree angles, which is why I think it was probably just a lot issue, or maybe it had been loaded really warm prior to me acquiring it.

Hey, anyone know if factory S&B has sealed primers? All of these had red sealant.

I'm not at all concerned about it, just curious if anyone else had seen anything like this with S&B.

Thanks

GS
 
Yup, many, possibly all S&Bs come with red primer sealant. But I read recently they might be abandoning that, at least in some calibers.

I personally have never had any problems with .38 Special S&B or any other caliber for that matter.

Once every 1.2 gazillion rounds (or so) of .38 spl. I get a small neck split, but I've not been able to discern a pattern vis a vis headstamp.
 
moxie said:
Yup, many, possibly all S&Bs come with red primer sealant. But I read recently they might be abandoning that, at least in some calibers.



I personally have never had any problems with .38 Special S&B or any other caliber for that matter.



Once every 1.2 gazillion rounds (or so) of .38 spl. I get a small neck split, but I've not been able to discern a pattern vis a vis headstamp.
Click to expand...


I have. R-P will split at a rate about 20 times greater than Winchester or PMC or S&B. Federal at a rate about half of R-P.
 
I get that same type of splitting from some batches of Winchester brass, I have since switched to Starline.
 
I have seen it on literally every caliber I load for. Straightwalled cases are the worst, nickel being a standout among those. Almost all of my nickel is federal brass, but even in yellow brass and in bottlenecks it does the same. Starts at the mouth and splits roughly in a more or less straight pattern towards the case head. It's normal. It may be abnormal to find so much of it crapping out early, but as others have mentioned brass can be flawed from the factory.
 
Well ya, eventually any brass will go bad, and most times it starts at the mouth and extends down, but this just had a very unusual pattern. No biggie, probably just a bad lot, or it had reached the end of it's life span.

GS
 
I'm sure there's a reason for the pics in W.E.G.'s post. Nice photos by the way...:D :D
 
Those are splits I've never experienced before. It certainly does sound like 'just bad brass".
 
Factory S&B does have red lacquer sealed primers. I used to shoot a lot of that stuff before I started handloading.
 
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