upgrading my 870

[rbernie]

not sure where you guys are getting poor shooting skills mixed up with wanting a shotgun that was more durable or more aesthetic

Nobody said that you had 'poor shooting skills'. They did suggest that it's always good to spend money improving shooting skills via range time and formal training, and it's really hard to argue against that.

Sometimes, spending $200 on a HD/SD training class or range fees is a better value than spending $200 in gun updates. Just throwing that out there....

 

[justin22885]

ok, well my skills are fine, i just happen to enjoy modifying, customizing, and personalizing the things i own

 

[jaguarxk120]

If your skills are "that" good you won't be shooting a 870.

 

[Fred Fuller]

If your skills are "that" good you won't be shooting a 870.

Gigglesnort...

 

[justin22885]

youre not liking the 870?

 

[jaguarxk120]

The 870 is a fine shotgun especially in the Wingmaster model.

But your skills are as such, a shotgun with a fitted stock with the proper cast, possibly palm swell and proper balance will enhance your shooting.

 

[justin22885]

The 870 is a fine shotgun especially in the Wingmaster model.

But your skills are as such, a shotgun with a fitted stock with the proper cast, possibly palm swell and proper balance will enhance your shooting.

thats my concern with some of the stock options out there.. if i were to lose weight in the stock, it would make the shotgun more front heavy and put more fatique into the off-hand, so im very cautious about disrupting the balance of it and if i can id like to bring the balance a bit more rearward... so since i've decided to go likely with a walnut stock, i may also add extra weight to it to fine tune the point of balance

since i do want to use it also for home defense, and dont make it a habbit to shoot at noises in the dark i cant identify, i'd like to put a light on it, problem is a wooden forearm lacks a rail, and without the tube magazine extension which the light mounting options tend to use, im having a hard time finding a way to put a light on it.. may have to use wood screws for a short piece of rail on the side of the forearm unless someone has a better idea

 

[USAF_Vet]

If your skills are "that" good you won't be shooting a 870.

or at least not an 870 that hasn't been heavily altered by a competent shotgun-smith.

You can dump a bunch of money on stocks and rails and lights and such, which is fine. It's your gun, your money and only you really know what you want.

But it sounds to me that you are trying to force your 870 express into being something it just isn't.

I have to take you at your word that you can handle your shotgun, that your skills exceed just knowing how to load, point/ aim and squeeze the trigger and hit your target.

Given your physical limitations (don't know if that's the best term for it, but bones grinding in the wrist would certainly limit me), I can only suggest a different, new shotgun, customized to best fit you.

I have serious doubts that any off the shelf aftermarket parts are going to help your situation. You seem like you need a custom fitted stock, custom balanced gun, that fits you like a second skin. You're not going to get that with an 870 express, at least not without spending much more than the gun cost to begin with.

If it were just a matter of "I like to customize my gun cuz it l00ks kewl" then I wouldn't have even bothered to comment.

The "options out there" you mentioned in post #57 are off the shelf, mass produced aftermarket items. What you need is a craftsman who can build you a stock, balanced, weighted, and fitted to you and you alone. That level of quality and craftsmanship can't be bought off the shelf, not even a nice Boyd's is going to get you there. And if you do go this route, I'd want to upgrade over an 870 express. Lipstick on pigs comes to mind. A nice vintage Wingmaster, maybe.

 

[justin22885]

actually, i could build my own stock.. my woodworking experience comes from lutherie work, so i can easily design, build, and carve my own from a blank to match my LOP and add a bit more of a vertical angle to the grip section for more comfort, i may just do that.. nothing too fancy at first, just some inexpensive red oak until i have the dimensions and weight where i like it.. i could maybe even copy the grip angle of my revolvers (colt single actions).. which has a curved grip that comes to a more vertical angle near the bottom.. i find it to be quite comfortable.. also the pattern of stock below has a more vertical grip section that could work.. i could carve this out of a cheaper wood to test.. would have to cut the front off a bit to reach the trigger though

 

[btg3]

That's great that you can work thru numerous iterations toward a customized stock/grip angle for best fit and comfort. As you may know, moving from a typical shotgun stock toward a pistol grip moves the elbow lower and reduces swing range. Perhaps less of a concern for indoor HD, but if I or my target is moving, reduced swing range works against me. I'm fortunate in that 870s fit me well -- hope you can find the fit that works well for you.

FWIW, out of four 870s, my HD is a circa 2000 Express with 18" LEO barrel and butt cuff secured with duct tape. No other mods. Played around with mag extensions for defensive shotgun matches, but after learning to reload in action, discarded the weight forward to speed up target acquisition and improve handling. YMMV.

 

[dprice3844444]

every one of us has to tinker with our toys to fit our own personal desires.as far as using screws instead of rivets,screws can come loose.don't want things inside possible jamming up the works.my thoughts,if it ain't broke,why fix it. enjoy your toy

 

[justin22885]

the rifle i shoot most by far and foremost is my AK-74, the posture im used involves a vertical grip, lower elbow.. its what im used to.. the other issues with the stock it has is with a t-shirt on its ok, layers of clothing topped with a jacket i may use to hunt with in colder months pushes the LOP a bit too far, so id need a shorter LOP

the other issue with the standard stock is i cant comfortably being my eye into position to aim/point the shotgun without having to lean my head too far over, when i raise up the shotgun high enough to aim/point with a solid cheek weld, only the bottom 1/4 of the buttpad is actually touching the shoulder so the ergonomics are WAY different than with my AK and i like consistency, id like to have the same ergonomics and length of pull for what i'm already used to

so if i were going to carve my own stock, id have to drop the level of the buttpad down lower to bring up the level of the shotgun for a more comfortable, more natural position when shouldering it.. or put on a cheek riser and raise the level of the sights, however, if i did that id need to add a rear sight to it

so you can see how it has a lot to do with what im already used to, and what im comfortable with far more than its about trying to make something that looks cool.. the nature of modifications i want to make is more about making it feel more natural, with ergonomics more consistent with the rifles i shoot since i shoot rifles 90% of the time, shotguns and handguns the other 10

 

[justin22885]

every one of us has to tinker with our toys to fit our own personal desires.as far as using screws instead of rivets,screws can come loose.don't want things inside possible jamming up the works.my thoughts,if it ain't broke,why fix it. enjoy your toy

well thats what im curious about if i tried to use a couple screws.. see the plan is to rivet it back in after refinishing the receiver, but i wanted to get an extra ejector, tap the ejector and make a couple screws to fit from the outside.. zero modifications to the receiver just to see how reliable it can be when fastened with enough torque and maybe some loctite.. worst case scenario is it doesnt hold all that well and i put the old ejector back in and rivet it... so at worse its a $10 risk

 

[Teachu2]

well thats what im curious about if i tried to use a couple screws.. see the plan is to rivet it back in after refinishing the receiver, but i wanted to get an extra ejector, tap the ejector and make a couple screws to fit from the outside.. zero modifications to the receiver just to see how reliable it can be when fastened with enough torque and maybe some loctite.. worst case scenario is it doesnt hold all that well and i put the old ejector back in and rivet it... so at worse its a $10 risk

Kind of like taking a claw hammer with a hickory handle, removing the wedges that hold the head onto the handle, then drilling and tapping the head for setscrews to retain the handle. In other words, take a proven reliable design and see if you can modify it without ruining it.

 

[Girodin]

A wingshooting gun is a different beast than a fighting gun. They are set up differently in so way ways besides barrel length. I'd simply buy one of the IAC 870 clones for $150 and mount a light. The clones from what I have seen are better made than the 870 express guns. At $150 it is probably not much more expensive than buying an 18.5 barrel.

A clone with a Magpul stock and fore grip and a inforce WML mounted to the fore grip, and ares gear side saddle, is a pretty dang good fighting shot gun for the money. Shopping right you can get the whole package for about $300. It's a better route than trying to make something work for both IMHO.

 

[justin22885]

soooo.. mossbergs arent proven designs?

 

[rbernie]

soooo.. mossbergs arent proven designs?

They're a DIFFERENT design. Each completed design is proven as a whole, but no single element of the design is 'best' as a standalone notion.

I am an engineer. I design DoD weapons systems for a living, and have over thirty years in the field. First off - you cannot take random elements from different designs and call them 'better' or 'worse'. Every element in a given design is balanced one piece against the other, and is itself a balance of functionality, reliability, cost of manufacture, cost of assembly, longevity, servicability, and so forth.

You seem completely intent on rejecting the idea that Mossberg and Remington could take different design paths, in which the balance between functionality, reliability, cost of manufacture, cost of assembly, longevity, and servicability was weighted differently between them, but in the end both wind up with decent products. But that's exactly what happened, and happens all the time with every single thing that you buy.

It's your gun. Do what you want. But you might consider NOT asking random people on the Internet for validation of your ideas if you're gonna be too immature to understand their feedback. Just go do it, and let us know how it all works out.

 

[Teachu2]

soooo.. mossbergs arent proven designs?

Certainly not proven superior to the 870 - but I wouldn't take a Mossberg and rig it with a 870 ejector, either, nor do I "fit" Glock parts in my 1911s.

 

[Teachu2]

Well said, rbernie!

 

[justin22885]

Certainly not proven superior to the 870 - but I wouldn't take a Mossberg and rig it with a 870 ejector, either, nor do I "fit" Glock parts in my 1911s.

i never suggested using any mossberg parts, just threading the ejector to use a screw instead similar to what mossberg does.. mossberg also doesnt stake the shell latches, its still proven reliable.. so im sure some bumbling fumbling fudd may whine about reassembly without staked shell latches, id personally not want to have to deform the metal of the receiver just for the luxury of a slightly easier reassembly by restaking them.. also makes it easier to replace them and clean under them once in a while.. but im sure remington would prefer the average shooter to send their shotguns in to them for repairs

 

[Teachu2]

I just don't see the wisdom of making either of these changes to a proven design, especially when it is intended to be used for personal protection. I believe that this is a foolish venture, but that's OK - it's yours to do with as you please.

If you haven't already done so, you really need to get into the AR-15 platform. You will find a large contingent of like-minded folks, experimenting and modding and creating the ultimate Frankenguns.

 

[justin22885]

I just don't see the wisdom of making either of these changes to a proven design, especially when it is intended to be used for personal protection. I believe that this is a foolish venture, but that's OK - it's yours to do with as you please.

If you haven't already done so, you really need to get into the AR-15 platform. You will find a large contingent of like-minded folks, experimenting and modding and creating the ultimate Frankenguns.

i do that with the AK already, currently have an AK-74 i built from parts (rivet build) which takes more skill than the rivets on an 870 ejector so riveting it isnt an issue at all, im just curious how well adopting the mossberg idea would work

anyway, a lot of modifications can be done to the AK as well.. in fact one of them being im wanting to make my own bullpup conversion, not from a kit and to also include a forward mounting non reciprocating charging handle and AR15 magazine well with BHO

with the AR, it becomes a bit too easy.. but i will be putting together a basic run of the mil AR to compare against the AK for a number of criteria to determine which one to be my go-to rifle

 

[AJumbo]

With regard to the materials and finish of your 870...........it sounds like you'd like to turn your Express into a Wingmaster.

With regard to staked .vs unstaked shell latches..... the shell latch in my 1100 came unstaked, and it's a pain in the butt to reinstall the trigger group while holding the latch in place. Even though the latch worked perfectly unstaked, I got it fixed.

Insofar as the rest of the mode you want to do.... do them. You seem to have the skills and interest, so why not? I'd hate to think I was the only one out there who direct-deposits 30% of my paycheck to Brownells. I fall into the "buy shells, not Dremel bits" camp, however.

 

[justin22885]

theres actually a couple spots where some of the surface rust was located that after being cleaned off (gun oil/solvent seemed to work well) theres a couple patches of no finish that are really annoying to look at, so thats one the driving factors behind refinishing it.. and sure i could cold blue the couple spots, but that seems more half assed than a proper refinish to something even better than before

 

[76shuvlinoff]

My Express, HD version. I think it's an 80s vintage but I am not sure. I bought it used and the guy had a 20" smooth bore blued slug barrel that I scuffed up with Scotchbrite and hit with rattle can rustoleum satin black.
The smooth bore is chambered for 2 3/4", I added a +2 mag extension. It sits: mag full, chamber empty, safety off. Last round stuffed in the mag is a 1oz slug, everything following is 00 buck.