Upper tier Ar-15 question

[1911JAS]

Thank you for the analogy. But I dont think it is the same. I would not compare a Barrett M107 and there REC7 they are not the same. The Ar is one of the easiest to make accurate with the available components for not alot of $. Like I asked before what makes them "just better" besides QC and furniture.
It is also sounding like the age old supply and demand. Low demand high prices.

 

[tarosean]

Think of it this way, budget AR as a Ford Ranger truck, and high end AR as a Ford 450. Some people are happy with a ford ranger, others need the F450 with the majority of the people buying F150/F250 just like mid-tier ARs. Will a Ford Ranger do the job, Yes. Will it last as long as a F450 towing heavy loads? Probably not. But then again, do you need to tow heavy load or do you need to move a sofa?

Its more like the TATA though.... Built to be the cheapest thing period. One must ask themselves. What corners were cut?

(Whats with everyone wanting to use a analogy?)

 

[md7]

Upper end AR’s generally are built with higher end or premium parts, are often independently tested, proof marked, carefully assembled, backed up by good QC, and have accumulated track records for being pushed to the limit while still being able to function (reference BCM Filthy 14 as an example)

10 years ago I knew nothing of ARs. But Pat Rogers did, and I knew that his Filthy 14 would serve me better than I could possibly need. So that’s what I bought. And then I bought a second bcm that’s an M4 clone. That M4 clone is my beater/trainer/toss in the side by side/HD/ do everything rifle. I literally have zero clue how many thousands of rounds are through the pipe now. A lot.

Nowadays, I don’t study AR tiers. I don’t care who has the latest or greatest. I don’t shop ARs on a price point. I don’t worry about spending more or spending less. If I were without an AR, I’d simply purchase two more BCM’s exactly like what I’ve got now, and move on in life.

None of that is pro or anti budget/top tier ARs. I’m just saying I’m at a point in life where there’s a few “easy buttons” that I push and don’t question. BCM is one. For reference, Ford and Toyota are too and that don’t make me anti Chevy either

 

[AK Hunter]

If you assemble enough ARs you will find that if you put in a quality barrel, bolt, & fire control group. In with the cheapest parts & properly fit them together. You can shoot just as accurately as the high end guns.
So what you are paying for is for the high end company to assemble the best parts they can build or buy in the proper way to get a better tested product.
It takes more money to keep the guy the knows how to tweek the parts to get them to work together.
Many places will hire someone off the street that claims to have the knowledge to properly assemble a weapon but most are just screw turners. (AKA Century Arms)

 

[gotboostvr]

The Upper tier companies are also innovating frequently. Designing, fabricating, testing and improving parts as well. So those costs need to be covered on top of just building the rifles. That's where some of the upcharge goes to.

Eventually, those designs and innovations trickle down to the other manufacturers. Some of them may execute those features as well as the more expensive companies.

Free floated rail systems, nitrided barrels, 223wylde chambering, mid-length gas systems... all features you could only get on high end rifles, now can be had on a budget rifle, all developed by the higher end companies like BCM, Wilson, et al.

 

[1911JAS]

If you assemble enough ARs you will find that if you put in a quality barrel, bolt, & fire control group. In with the cheapest parts & properly fit them together. You can shoot just as accurately as the high end guns.
So what you are paying for is for the high end company to assemble the best parts they can build or buy in the proper way to get a better tested product.
It takes more money to keep the guy the knows how to tweek the parts to get them to work together.
Many places will hire someone off the street that claims to have the knowledge to properly assemble a weapon but most are just screw turners. (AKA Century Arms)

I think you are correct.

 

[1911JAS]

I just spent a little time on the phone calling a few of the companies. One makes barrels, cold hammer forged from blanks. The others get them from Lothar Walther.
I asked about there BCG two stated the meet or exceed mill spec but would not say where they get them. The othe makes them in house.

 

[1911JAS]

Thank you all, I believe I have the answer to my questions on this topic.

 

[MistWolf]

...Free floated rail systems, nitrided barrels, 223wylde chambering, mid-length gas systems... all features you could only get on high end rifles, now can be had on a budget rifle, all developed by the higher end companies like BCM, Wilson, et al.

None of the above were developed by BCM or Wilson. Free float AR handguards were developed by competition shooters. I believe KAC was one of the earliest developers of the free float railed hand guard. Small barrel makers looking for easier manufacturing methods began experimenting with nitriding long before being offered on a factory rifle. 223 Wylde chambers were designed by Bill Wylde. The midlength gas system was developed by Armalite as they sought to improve the 16 inch AR.

Some of these features, such as nitriding, 223 Wylde chambers and middy gas systems were first offered on hobby grade ARs.

 

[gotboostvr]

None of the above were developed by BCM or Wilson. Free float AR handguards were developed by competition shooters. I believe KAC was one of the earliest developers of the free float railed hand guard. Small barrel makers looking for easier manufacturing methods began experimenting with nitriding long before being offered on a factory rifle. 223 Wylde chambers were designed by Bill Wylde. The midlength gas system was developed by Armalite as they sought to improve the 16 inch AR.

Some of these features, such as nitriding, 223 Wylde chambers and middy gas systems were first offered on hobby grade ARs.

I knew the free float tubes started with competition shooters. I wasn't sure if KAC started the railed versions or not. I knew they were early pioneers of the drop in railed systems.

I only became familiar with those features on higher end rifles, before companies like Spikes and PSA picked them up.

And I didn't mean to imply BCM and Wilson specifically developed them, just similar companies helped bring them to the fore-front. I know BCM was the first company I became aware of that nitrided barrels on factory rifles.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Hmmmmmm. Perhaps you should inform the worlds best that they should be getting by with Mossy and Turkish crap.. Instead of the Shotguns that do in fact dominate.

The pros gravitate to the high end guns for a competitive edge. If you happen to be a pro that would make sense. How many people who shoot clays travel on the pro circuit and shoot for money or endorsements? We can't all be George Digweed but plenty of people try by spending the extra bucks on a Perazzi.

I never said they should buy the cheapest shotgun on the market. You said that. Most people buy a Perazzi for the bling. Full disclosure. I used to shoot for money locally. Never needed a high end double.

The same will hold true for DD or LMT. Most people can't use the precision even if they can afford the rifle. I see that at the range a lot. When a guy can't shoot his 3K AR any better than his $700 AR there's your clue.

And the shotguns don't dominate, the shooters do. I've seen some very good shooter using a 3K Beretta. Not world class but very good. Lets just say I'll pass.

 

[tarosean]

And the shotguns don't dominate, the shooters do.

I think we can agree that a person needs reliable equipment to be in contention. After all, you cannot have a world champ tossing rocks.. (Unknown if there is a world rock tossing champion)

That said your not going to buy championship with equipment only no matter what you spend.