Use of brass powder flasks back in the day

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, other than a soldier or maybe a lawman there would normally be no need to reload during any sort of gun fight. So I would suggest that the usual place would be in a saddle bag with the spare bulk powder, round ball and caps.
 
Here in a reference to the Pony Express by

Chapman, Arthur. The Pony Express: The Record of a Romantic Adventure in Business. G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York, New York, 1932. Illustrated with contemporary prints & photos Pony Express. Contains interviews with Pony Express riders.

He said that:


"States that at first the riders were armed with carbines, as well as two revolvers per man. The carbines were soon discarded, as were the extra revolvers. The usual armament was one “navy” revolver. Occasionally a rider carried an extra, loaded cylinder for his revolver, in case of a fight with several opponents at close quarters. Even this extra weight was begrudged."

Here also are some references;

Source: Settle, Raymond W. and Mary Lund Settle. Saddles and Spurs: The Pony Express Saga and Bloss, Roy S. Pony Express: The Great Gamble.


Pony Bob Haslam wrote, "rode regularly between Lake Tahoe and Buckland’s Station in Nevada. Once he recalled that when asked to make an extra long ride when his relief rider refused to continue, he was ready to ride “... after adjusting my Spencer rifle, which was a seven-shooter and my Colt revolver, with two cylinders ready for use in case of emergency.”

"Thomas Dobson, who rode for Major Egan between Ruby Valley, Nevada, and Deep Creek, Utah, recounted once that when some Indians pursued them they were glad that they had pistols while the Indians had only bows and arrows. No mention was made of having a rifle."

"Howard Ranson Egan, who rode between Shell Creek and Butte Stations, remembered once when being threatened by Indians, that he rode straight through them “with pistol in my hand”. Again, no mention of having a rifle."

Richard S. Brownlee mentions in his excellent book, "Grey Ghosts of the Confederacy" That the Guerillas, that drove the Union Cavalry nuts with all of their firepower during the War, would carry multiple revolvers on their person and on their saddles. Again, no mention of reloading.

Elhombre, in my limited reading, I have never read very many references that actually explain when and how they reloaded their revolvers.

In,
The Paterson Colt

By Kerry Barlow

This article was published in Western Territories magazine.


"The Paterson had a marked influence on the early west, and was a sought after handgun. Examples of the Patersons success abound, the Paterson alone being responsible for saving wagon trains from attack, as reported by the famous Kit Carson, or 12 soldiers pinned down by over 60 Indians and living to tell about it by Col. Jack Hayes. One surviving Indian encountering the Paterson revolver was quoted as saying the following "Him no good" this simple comment holds a lot of truth in its statement, compared to a single shot handgun the Paterson "was" no good for the enemy. The Patersons greatest success and Colts claim to early fame was garnered from the Republic of Texas. The Texas Rangers used the Paterson Colt with huge success, earning the weapon a new name the "Texas Paterson"

The would have spare cylinders handy for a prolong fight, but no mention of a flask being carried to reload.

In so many words, I don't know. :confused:


But, in the day when single shot muzzle loading rifles, smoothbores and pistols were used by the vast majority of people both civilian and military running into someone armed with a Colt revolver must have seemed like the guy had a belt fed machinegun.
 
Last edited:
A horse soldier would have carried what was issued to him. Generally paper cartridges in his revolver cartridge box on his belt. After the ACW paper cartridges were commonly available commercially and I suspect many folks just carried an un opened waxed box at most if reloads were carried at all.

I can't imagine working all day from a horse and on and off 47 times with a flask banging away in my coat pocket or hanging about me on a cord or sling, so I am voting in the saddle bags or bed roll. My bet is for most folks that carried then , as now, what is in the gun and that was it. Hollyweird not withstanding, most gun fights then, as now, were only a few shots.

-kBob
 
Most soldiers and especially cavalrymen carried more than one revolver so they wouldn't have to reload during a fight. If they did reload, they generally used paper cartridges.
 
flasks etc

Speaking generally here:
The flask as the powder horn was primarily a tool of the muzzle loading rifle and pistol (not revolver). But yes for the revolver too in the early days, until some enterprising fool, said Hey I can roll all this together into one small unit as they have been doing in Rifles and muskets for the last 100 yrs or so.
As needs changed, the bulky horn was supplanted with the more compact flask.
In the years preceding the ACW it was still common for flasks and caps and balls to be carried separately on the belt by those that had frequent need to have them at hand.
This would depend on your vocation. the common farmer or ranch hand, if he was in relatively settled country and no fear of immediate Indian attack,
would of had them in his saddle bag on the ride. More likely in the bunk / farm house when working around the buildings.
Revolvers were just a day to day tool to be used as or when needed
Lawmen gamblers and such again it would be where they were at and what they were doing and their immediate need to reload quickly.
Tinfoil and paper cartridges did exist before the ACW , again they evolved as did flask and excess powder for the common man being left at home as you do your reloading equipment today.
Rather they carried extra cartridges as needed, just as you would today in a modern gun.
Depending on where they were and their duties etc, would determine the number of cartridges they felt they would need to carry.
But being more fragile than metallic cartridges they were in pouches (boxes) rather than loops as today.
Not to mention those in a more hazardous duty profession would cary extra cylinders and / or guns.
As to the common ACW, most foot soldiers were not issued revolvers. They had rifles and muskets. The early days of the ACW battles were still being fought as they were in the ARW and earlier. Line up in long lines and several deep, and stand and shoot etc. Was mostly rifle shooting and Cannon. Until an all out
charge and became close quarters with cutlas and bayonet.
In the beginning officers, cannon crews and some higher ranked NCO's were issued revolvers. As the war worn on more and more of the foot soldiers commandeered revolvers and / or families and such bought them.
And battlefield tactics changed, to take cover and open fire etc.
The ones that were issued the revolver would of drawn a daily ammunition allotment just like the riflemen.
On either revolver or rifle bearers, their equipment belt would have a cartridge box and a cap box.
In some cases they may have had flasks as a carry over from earlier days,
but most would of had the pre-assembled cartridge.
War has always been a time of refinement, advancment and new and better and efficient way of doing things. Increasing your rate of fire, meant a quicker way of reloading. Thus the advancement to a basic cartridge rather then the separate components.
But then as now, the government didn't have the funds or the material to supply everybody in every unit with the newest and greatest. Thus the old ways prevailed ( separate flask, powder, ball, caps) in some units and the newer in others.
 
"While I was employed on this ranch [1851-55], I was often sent down into the settlements after beef cattle to butcher for the soldiers. I usually went down alone. and brought up the cattle, then hired a hand to help drive them back. I generally rode a good horse, and carried two six-shot pistols, one a navy class, which I belted around me, and the other a dragoon class that I hung on the horn of my saddle." Early Days in Central Texas, by F.M Cross. Greenwood Printing Co., Brownwood, Texas. Second Edition, June 1910, reprinted by the Bell County Historical Society 1969.
The author was my great-grand-uncle. Wish I knew what happened to the pistols.
 
Early Days in Central Texas, by F.M Cross. That book is hard to find. It's out of print and no one seems to have it that I can find.
 
I ordered the book from my local used book store this morning. $150...... There was one copy available in their supply chain. I love those old books but they really cut into my gun buying money.
 
My biggest bucket list project is to finishing the editing of my ggpaw's memoirs from his days on the Santa Fe trail, emigration to Texas around 1844, riding with the Texas Mounted Volunteers Spy Co. (Rangers) under Col. Hays in 1847 during the Mexican War, traveling to California with Col. Hays during the gold rush, returning home in 1851 a rich man to his ranch on the plains west of the Trinity, where he reared 10 children, and cavalry service during the ACW for the Confederacy, all within the space of 17 years.
 
Last edited:
cyberdan,

I used ACW because I did not want to get into it ONCE AGAIN with the carpetbaggers and blue bellies. In my case multiple great great greats wore grey or butter nut and my grandmother on my mother's side called it the same as you and claimed to have seen Sherman's Bowties (where rail road rails had been heated and wrapped around trees) still around live trees when she was a girl.

Actually by an act of congress, I believe in the 1880's, the title was "The War Between the States. "

The thing that amazes me is how many people assume that soldiers even in out fits as irregualar as various State CSA units (never mind Federlized Yankees) could just pick up and carry whatever they wanted.

-kBob
 
A cavalryman's primary weapon was not a firearm. It was his sabre. Geez. snicker.
No reloading required. No time to reload either a muzzleloader carbine or handgun in a fight anyway.
Pistolero's were really few and far between.
Mr. Cross looks a lot like that Earp fellow.
 
If you would like to read it when I am finished I could probably be convinced to send it your way. I would want it back though

Thanks Steel for your generous offer I just couldn't take the chance of something happening to it. I'll keep trying Abe books. :)
 
A cavalryman's primary weapon was not a firearm. It was his sabre. Geez. snicker.

That is until they (the Union cavalry) ran head long into Bloody Bill Anderson, George Todd, Cole Younger and the rest of that crew, they didn't live to regret it!!!
 
Last edited:
Here's what Bruce Catton has to say about their weapons,

"In the course of time the army replaced these miserable weapons (their sabers) with up-to-date revolvers, with which the men felt much more at home than they felt with sabers. These latter were supposed to be carried at all times in scabbards which dangled from a man's waist belt, but the metal scabbard and its rings jingled and made a lot of noise, and the weapon was just a nuisance to a man on foot. So the average trooper simply lashed his scabbard firmly to the near side of the saddle, nearly parallel to the horse's body, so that his left leg was over it when he was on his horse. That way he did not have to bother with it when on foot, it stayed put and did no flopping or jingling when he was riding, and if he needed it he could draw it quickly enough. Left to himself, though, he usually preferred to use his revolver." Glory Road, pages 245-246.

Officially, yes I agree the saber was, on paper, their official weapon.


Another interesting find is in that journal by F.M. Cross, Berkley's Great Grand Uncle writing that he would carry two Colt revolvers but no mention of a rifle.
 
Last edited:
Over Labor Day weekend we drove down to Santa Fe so my wife could get away and I could learn more about Kit Carson. We stopped at Ft Garland in southern Colorado to tour the old fort there (as a side note It was a very good presentation of mid 1800's frontier army life and is well worth the stop!!!) and I picked up a book titled "Life of a Soldier on the Western Frontier" by Jeremy Agnew. According to the author very little of the average infantryman or cavalryman's life was spent actually shooting. It seems that the military budget after the Civil War did not allow for wasting ammunition by actually shooting their weapons as well as a scarcity of lead and powder for procurement. It wasn't until after 1880 that the military learned that marksmanship was critical to a having a soldier that survived and that good marksmanship could sway the outcome of a battle. Look for the book, it is worth every penny in my opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top