USFS discourages hunting feral pigs?

[redneck]

I've been researching places to take the horses this year and also places to hunt. I came across this section about Feral Pigs on the USFS website for Wayne National Forest:

"Wild Boar - Wild hogs have been expanding into parts of the Wayne and are even occasionally sited by hikers and OHV users.
In support of effective control efforts to remove feral hogs, the Wayne does not provide range maps or local distribution information for feral hogs. Throughout the country, research and management efforts have shown that hunting does not control feral hog numbers. Specifically, hunting pressure causes hogs to go nocturnal and actually promotes their spread as they seek areas with less human disturbance. Successful control and removal efforts have very limited success when competing with concurrent pressure from recreational pig hunting. Instead, we are pursuing a cooperative strategy for intensive trapping and removal efforts on affected properties in and around the area to effectively remove the hogs.
The Ohio DNR has a map of known occurrences on their ODNR wildlife website. Click on the ODNR hunting regulation website for the rules on hunting wild boar.
Whether it's a 400-pound boar with five-inch tusks or an enraged sow defending her litter, feral hogs are formidable and have been known to attack human beings. Feral hogs have excellent senses of smell and hearing and normally avoid contact with humans. There are occasions of hogs chasing hunters up trees, but these are rare, isolated instances. The vast majority of hogs flee from humans. However, should you find yourself nose-to-snout with an angry hog, the best defense is to climb the nearest tree. If the swine charges, sidestep quickly, taking care to avoid the swing of its tusks and promptly find a tree to scamper up.
Fact Sheet on Feral Swine in Ohio
If you see any feral swine, or evidence of their "rooting around" contact the Forest Service or the Division of Wildlife. The Division is working on a proactive strategy for dealing with this animal since it now appears that populations are growing and expanding, and it can do a great deal of damage to the Forest."
(link : http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/wayne/landmanagement/resourcemanagement/?cid=fsm9_006087 )

That is in complete contrast to ODNR. Everything I have found from Ohio DNR regarding feral pigs is they want to get rid of them by any means necessary. There is no closed season, and no bag limit. Trapping is allowed as long as they are killed immediately. You can even hunt them at night using night vision etc. as long as it isn't during deer gun or muzzle loader season.

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting...g-regulations/feral-swine-hunting-regulations


I guess I'm not surprised but I am not happy that they seem to think hunters should stay out of it and let them pay trappers. From what I read here and elsewhere online, there hasn't been any method that controls the hog population and keeps it from spreading, so why discourage sportsmen who provide all the money for conservation?
I also think the paragraph about 400 lb boars chasing people up trees is way over the top and completely ridiculous.

 

[jmorris]

Trapping does do a better job many times but I'm for getting rid of them any way you can.

I have never been chased by any myself either but have chased a few myself.

 

[gspn]

It just sounds like they are using two different strategies. Wayne National Forest has an "intensive" trapping program underway and they don't want hunting pressure to interfere with the natural movements of the animals they are targeting. I get that...makes some sense.

Ohio says they have "no large scale eradication efforts" happening in areas with known breeding populations...and they are cool with hunters helping out there. I get that too.


Wayne National Forest:

"Successful control and removal efforts have very limited success when competing with concurrent pressure from recreational pig hunting. Instead, we are pursuing a cooperative strategy for intensive trapping and removal efforts on affected properties in and around the area to effectively remove the hogs."

Ohio DNR:

"Control & Eradication Eradication

Thus far, eradication efforts have focused on smaller, emerging populations in the northern half of Ohio with great success. Currently, no large-scale eradication efforts are being conducted in those counties with known breeding populations. Hunters can aid in removal of swine and are encouraged to do so as opportunities arise. There is no closed season on feral swine."

 

[buck460XVR]

While the USFS is discouraging the hunting of feral pigs in Wayne, and are not going to provide information to help hunters find feral pigs there, they did did prohibit it. Their statements about uncontrolled hunting being detrimental to trapping makes sense, especially when the majority of hunters are inexperienced and still learning. Even the Ohio DNR makes this statement...

hunting usually has little effect on feral swine populations

This is why the few states that do not have a feral hog problem do everything they can to keep them out. Funny how some hunters think they are a boon to the area and look forward to having them around, regardless of how destructive they are. Folks should hope they never see one instead of waiting for them to invade the area so they can hunt them.

 

[Sniper66]

The local authorities intervened and made hunting "illegal" when a population of feral hogs began to grow and attract attention here in NE Kansas. They staged two helicopter kills, but I'm not aware of any other efforts to eliminate the hogs. And I've heard no reports of the effectiveness of the efforts. I hunt on land adjacent to the public land that was affected and the land owner has asked me to shoot the hogs, which is legal for land owners. I haven't seen any, but have seen the destruction they can cause. I won't risk getting in trouble so avoid them, but would hunt them if allowed. Hard to imagine that being a bad thing if the goal is to get rid of them.

 

[TimSr]

That is in complete contrast to ODNR. Everything I have found from Ohio DNR regarding feral pigs is they want to get rid of them by any means necessary.

It's also in complete contrast with the USDA biologist in charge of trapping and tracking them in Ohio. He was my best source of helpful information in finding a good area to hunt on public land. He is active on federal, state, and private lands. He won't divulge private land info for obvious reasons, but the areas in Zaleski Sate Forest, and state wildlife areas lead me to areas 3 years in a row where I found active signs of hogs in the area. Even though I haven't seen one yet, I can at least know they are in the area I'm hunting. I go every year around mid April. Was just thinking I might go a little earlier this year. They have been in southern Ohio for decades, and honestly, I think the climate limits there expansion here. They are enjoyable to hunt for, as long as you have realistic expectations, and understand that they are pretty rare to see, and not plentiful like deer. I considered just finding tracks and wallows to be a successful hunt, but I am determined to eventually take one in Ohio, sooner or later.

I do have to say that the warnings of "attacks" are laughable when applied to Ohio. I don't think there has ever been one here.

 

[Grumulkin]

Interesting; they think trapping can eliminate them and hunting won't?

 

[redneck]

I am not hoping for a population boom in any way shape or form. I have been involved in agriculture my whole life and I know what a problem they are on top of the effect they have on other game species and general conservation. I also trail ride and camp all over ohio and know that feral pigs are as rare as hens teeth here, its a really big discuussion over something that really doesnt amount to anything.

I have spent very little time in Wayne National forest so maybe the trapping efforts are bigger than I expect but I highly doubt they are covering the same amount of ground for the same amount of hours as all the guys who have been hunting deer since september. They're talking about an area that has hundreds of miles of ATV trails and horse trails across thousand of acres open to the public for hunting,fishing, hiking, primitive camping etc. Its not like nobody is going there. At the same time its not like out west where you have such a big area that only the edges see heavy traffic. The pig population however small it is, is going to be disturbed either way.

ODNR has changed their page, but when they originally recognized that pigs were in ohio they basically said if you see one, shoot it. That seems like a better attitude, than leave them alone so we can look for them. I really don't understand how someone wandering around looking for pigs is more detrimental to trapping than someone walking around looking for deer, coyote, squirrel etc. Those woods are full of people either way.

 

[buck460XVR]

.

ODNR has changed their page, but when they originally recognized that pigs were in ohio they basically said if you see one, shoot it. That seems like a better attitude, than leave them alone so we can look for them. I really don't understand how someone wandering around looking for pigs is more detrimental to trapping than someone walking around looking for deer, coyote, squirrel etc. Those woods are full of people either way.

New populations are much easier to eradicate than established ones, thus when feral pigs first invade, hunting is probably a very viable way of eliminating them. Hogs are very smart, and after a while, pressure from folks using dogs, bait and trying to sneak up on them will quickly make them fear even the slightest amount of human scent, thus making them harder to trap. Folks walking around in the woods chasing other animals and doing other things are quickly recognized. Deer around here are no different. They stand and watch the farmer check his field and cattle all the time and just stand there and look. The minute two hunters walk into the field with guns in their hands those same deer are gone. Deer in areas where they see little or no pressure can be seen out in the open feeding during daylight regularly. Go to areas where they are hunted heavily and you don't even see a fawn out in the open till after dark. Add to that the fact that most folks hunt hogs at a time of year when the season on most everything else is closed. Thus the pressure in the woods is concentrated more on hogs. I assume, there in Ohio, most trapping of hogs is done during the off seasons too, thus more interference.

 

[TimSr]

Interesting; they think trapping can eliminate them and hunting won't?

The idea is that witha trap, you can catch the whole sounder at once. If you are a hunter, you may get one or two, and the others supposedly run away smarter. Not that I am buying it, though. One other thing to undertsand is that there is little hog hunting pressure in Ohio. Sure people go out and hunt for them, but very few even see any. In fact the vast majority of hogs taken, most are taken during deer season as a target of opportunity when there actually is huge hunting pressure in the very areas the hogs are found.

WNF is huge and divided into sections. The Galia section has the larger populations. I've never found any sign whatsoever in Athens co. section, but they have them as well. While it may be USFS policy to discourage hunting them, the forest rangers are happy to talk to you about recent sightings in their district, an as I said, the USDA (agency that administers the national forests) biologist may as well have been a hunting guide for me. Sent me trail cam photos at his baits, and even GPS coordinates of where they were taken. If the USFS opposes hutning them, apparently WNF and other Ohio personnel they employ did not get the memo.

Buck, the ares in southern Ohio with existing populations can be traced back to at least 30 years.

 

[PapaG]

Our all knowing state of Illinois has made it all but illegal to hunt feral hogs. Only when you are deer hunting with an unfilled permit can you take one. Otherwise you are to contact the DNR if you see any and they'll "take care of it".
Theory is that if we hunt them, we'll like it and might even import more. I have a farm and a tractor with a loader. Should one run into a projectile, it will simply disappear.

 

[CraigC]

Here I was thinking that hunting was an archaic, evil, barbaric practice that sought the utter destruction of every animal species on the planet. Now you're telling me we don't even make a dent? Very disconcerting.

 

[rayatphonix]

Very interesting. We live in western NC and have a big hog problem, at least around our farm. Ours are completely nocturnal and bolt at the slightest hint of danger. What they're saying makes sense.

 

[Newtosavage]

It's a hard fact for sport hunters to swallow that sport hunting is not an effective way to control the numbers of feral hogs, or many invasive animals.

Sorry, but that's just the facts.

 

[DeepSouth]

I have to say I completely agree with them. When they're hunted numbers generally grow, and almost always expand. The only reason we have them here (this part of my county) is because hunters introduced them into our woods about 20 years ago so they wouldn't have to travel to hunt them. The guy that was mainly behind it is dead now, and pig population is still increasing.


I also personally know more than one person that has been attacked by startled hogs. I know a couple people that were very badly injured, but they were hunting with dogs and catching them alive, so that's just part of the "game"


All that said, if I see a hog then I shoot it, Been doing the same with armadillos for my entire life and it's made zero difference. I guess with hogs I at least move them to my neighbors property, which is what hunters do, and that's part of reason it doesn't work to control population.

 

[Captcurt]

Arkansas is getting more pigs everyday. AGFC allows hunting during deer season but stated that trapping was more efficient. I have seen it proven on a friends farm. He has had hogs come onto his place twice in the last 2 years. He has a river bottom hay field that is irregated. The hogs come in at night and it looks like a tiller went thru the place. If you wanted to shoot one you would have to do it at night or with dogs. Both meathods are illegal in Arkansas. He bought traps and is hog free now. Last spring he caught 8 in the same trap. You could hunt them all year and not kill 8.

 

[CraigC]

It's a hard fact for sport hunters to swallow that sport hunting is not an effective way to control the numbers of feral hogs, or many invasive animals.

Sorry, but that's just the facts.

No, the problem is regulations and the way the problem is approached. You can't treat hogs like deer, with explicit seasons and prohibitions on equipment used or the time of the day they can be taken. You also can't make a dent shooting one boar at a time. You can't make a dent by NOT shooting sows with piglets. You can't make a dent by not shooting piglets. You can't make a dent if you have no incentive to ruin your deer hunt by shooting a hog. They MUST be treated like the pests they are, not as game animals.

If they go nocturnal, hunt them at night. It's VERY effective. Can't do that if regulations prohibit it.

The use of suppressors makes it more likely to get more than one at a time, can't do that if regulations prohibit it.

States can start paying bounties for wild hogs like they've done in the past with coyotes and jack rabbits. I guarantee it'll be cheaper than what the hogs destroy.

In Europe, they do driven hunts and shoot them by the dozens.

 

[buck460XVR]

Buck, the ares in southern Ohio with existing populations can be traced back to at least 30 years.

Which is exactly why I said this.....

New populations are much easier to eradicate than established ones, thus when feral pigs first invade, hunting is probably a very viable way of eliminating them.

If the population has been established for 30 years, then hunting them in hopes of eradication is probably fruitless, just as the USFS claims.

Your experience of hunting them for three years, even after being heavily guided by your friend, the USDA biologist using his "trail cam photos at his baits, and even GPS coordinates of where they were taken.", and yet to see even one, is a good example of how effective the average Ohio feral hog hunter is at eradication.

Other folks hunting them would probably use that same info to hunt at the bait sites used for trapping in attempt to shoot a single hog before they get caught in the trap. Even if they get one, they've alerted the whole sounder to the dangers of the area and thus the site would probably have to be abandoned for another. Not helpful at all. In areas where there is no trapping or funding available for government trapping, hunting, while not the most efficient, is the only option. Thus one would expect it to be recommended for population control.

I do not know the terrain of the areas mentioned in this thread. If it is anything like much of the terrain around here, driving them efficiently and safely to standers would be a difficult proposition. The terrain is much more suitable for hogs than humans. Dogs may be efficient, as may be hunting them at night. Very tough on large parcels of public land as a warden to monitor or for law enforcement tho. Private land would be easier as the landowner would know what was going on and who was hunting. Like the helicopter hunts with full auto rifles. While they may be fine on large Texas ranches where access is controlled, how can you safely do it on a parcel of public land where one does not know exactly where that group of Boy Scouts is hiking/camping? How about the mushroom or Ginseng hunter? What works well in one place may not be the best choice somewhere else. Again, this may be why the USFS, in this scenario, is suggesting trapping. I dunno. I do know on a large parcel of public land I hunt close to home here, that there is federal land adjacent to state and county owned land and you better know which you are hunting, because they do not agree on the legality or the ethics of certain methods/equipment used for hunting. Lead shot is legal for upland game in one spot, but across the logging trail in federal land it is not. You can early season bowhunt this Oak Ridge, but the one next to it is closed till late December.

 

[alsaqr]

That USFS article is interesting.

Been a dedicated hog hunter since 2000 and a hog trapper since 2007. Have spent thousands of hours hunting, trapping and observing hogs. Southern Oklahoma is overrun with wild hogs. Short of poisoning, they will never be adequately controlled.

Some of the places i frequent are heavily hunted. However, the sounders return to the feeders, game plots and wheatfields despite the fact that several members of the sounder have been shot or trapped.

Beginning about ten days ago all the hogs caught at one property were very fat with empty stomachs; i knew they were going to leave soon. Made them easy to catch too.

There was a bumper crop of acorns and pecans on that place: Burr acorns the size of golf balls were everywhere. Three big sounders hung around there for months and we shot and trapped dozens of them. Those acorns and pecans are now gone. As of last Thursday the big sounders were also gone; they are probably hanging around the nearby wheatfields. About 50 feeder dependent hogs remain on that property, including one sounder of about 20 juveniles.

You can't control the hog population by hunting. It's a fact that deer hunters will not kill hogs. Two ranges on Fort Sill, OK were overrun with wild hogs despite a liberal hog hunting policy. Then they started shooting hogs from helicopters and trapping them with a vengeance. Hogs are now scarce on those ranges.

Much has been made about hogs and human scent. i take no precautions when baiting and setting traps. Many times i've killed hogs in traps one day and had more hogs in the same traps the next morning.

There are a couple of factors in the spread of wild hogs that many "experts" miss.

1. Bubba is still at it, transporting and releasing hogs in new areas.

2. Hog hunting ranches are another culprit in the spread of wild hogs. Few, if any, hog hunting ranches have adequate fences. They buy wild hogs from trappers and domestic hogs from stock sales. Two of my hunting properties are overrun with wild hogs because of a hog hunting ranch. Some of the hogs i kill there have notches in their ears. Most states are very reluctant to shut down the hog hunting ranches.

 

[rcmodel]

1. Bubba is still at it, transporting and releasing hogs in new areas.

so sadly true!!

Kansas federal lake public hunting areas near here have been infested at least twice by Bubba's hauling in hogs and releasing them.

With the mistaken belief they would create a new game species / hunting opportunity here.

Kansas F&G don't play that game.
Hog hunting is against the law.

And when new imported hog populations spring up on the lake lands?

F&G swoops in with helicopter shooters and wipes them slick again.

The way it should be.

(Except they won't let me be a door gunner!)

rc

 

[Carl N. Brown]

In Tennessee, last time I checked, feral hogs were classed as vermin to be exterminated.
Sports hunting was outlawed (it was an incentive to introduce feral hogs into new areas).
Trap and release was outlawed (trapped feral hogs could not leave the property alive).
Sounds like Ohio may have similar rules.

Land owners here have wide latitude in eliminating feral hogs.

Also last time I checked, it was OK if you are legally hunting bear or deer to shoot feral hogs as targets of opportunity. Latest rules available through the Wildlife Resources Agency. Specific management areas may have different rules, and it pays to check the latest regs before going afield.

Sounds to me like Wayne National Forest in Ohio may be testing a specific feral hog control program and rules elsewhere in Ohio may differ.

 

[alsaqr]

Oklahoma is a case study in disaster in the management of wild hogs.

1. Until 2000 all feral hogs in Oklahoma were deemed to be "domestic animals" owned by someone. Folks were sued for failure to obtain permission from the "owners" before shooting wild hogs. In 2000 wild hogs were removed from the list of domestic animals.

2. Night hunting of wild hogs can be effective. In Oklahoma we are not allowed to hunt wild hogs at night with a light and gun. Farmers/ranchers are sometimes issued permits to hunt hogs at night if they are damaging crops.

3. Lots of folks in Oklahoma make a living by catching and selling wild hogs to processors and owners of hog hunting "ranches". In 2015 an Oklahoma legislator proposed new tough legislation aimed at reducing the number of wild hogs. The proposed legislation was met by stiff opposition from the hog doggers, hog trappers and owners of hog hunting "ranches". It went nowhere:

http://hogwildok.com/2015/02/hb1104/

4. The only way we will ever make headway in managing the wild hog population will be by voter referendum. Example: Oklahoma was the last state in the US to have legalized cock fighting. The legislature would not touch cock fighting with a ten foot pole: We eliminated it with a voter referendum. Every year a couple of redneck legislators attempt to resurrect cock fighting.

 

[Newtosavage]

No, the problem is regulations and the way the problem is approached. You can't treat hogs like deer, with explicit seasons and prohibitions on equipment used or the time of the day they can be taken. You also can't make a dent shooting one boar at a time. You can't make a dent by NOT shooting sows with piglets. You can't make a dent by not shooting piglets. You can't make a dent if you have no incentive to ruin your deer hunt by shooting a hog. They MUST be treated like the pests they are, not as game animals.

If they go nocturnal, hunt them at night. It's VERY effective. Can't do that if regulations prohibit it.

I've killed at least 700 pigs by now. Stopped counting at 600.

The FS in Texas allows year-round hunting of hogs night or day. Still the forest is infested with them and it's only getting worse.

Anything short of aerial gunning or poisoning is not going to reduce their numbers, no matter what narrative "sportsmen" want to hear. It's just a fact. Folks need to accept it and not get all butthurt about it.

 

[jeepnik]

Most current members of the USFS (most are college grads that have no hunting experience, and some no outdoor experience till they joined the USFS) discourage all hunting activities. Most are greenies that think all bears are Yogi and that people really should stay out of "their" forest.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Easily read as a conflicted statement.

They try to imply that hunting is ineffective but in fact are stating that hunting diminishes the effectiveness of trapping.

Sounds like there's simply not enough effective hunting going on to make the trapping moot and not enough effective trapping occurring to limit the enthusiasm for hunting.

One party should back off and encourage a ramping up of the other's activity.

A bit of a Catch, er... 11. Not quite a Catch 22 but close.

I do recognize the ability of the hunting activity to alter the behavior of the prey - we've all watched this all our lives with deer, elk and the like. Thick on the ground in the off-season, absolutely phantasmal once a shot is fired.


Todd.