USFS discourages hunting feral pigs?

[Double Naught Spy]

No one method is going to control hogs. Trapping is fine but often misses hogs. Even cellular traps often miss hogs, though they often do a much better job.

I find it ironic that you can't over hunt hogs, but you can over hunt just about everything else.

I am more inclined that the gross generalization that hunting hasn't been effective on hogs can be backed up with the gross generalization that traps have not been effective on hogs and neither have dogs, or any other method. Hogs continue to spread despite all of these methods being employed. Hmmm.

Turns out, any randomly applied method works....wait for it...randomly. Many individual systematic methods will also systematically miss hogs as well.

Me thinks they protest too much.

 

[shootniron]

They are correct...at present...there is NO way to control the hog population. Having hunted them more than a little...I can tell you...that hunting will have no effect on the hog population. A wild hog is the most difficult animal to get an opportunity to kill, that I have ever pursued. Absent large ag fields...it is nearly impossible to kill substantial numbers of them.

 

[alsaqr]

Absent large ag fields...it is nearly impossible to kill substantial numbers of them.

Others and myself have tried to kill large numbers of hogs on wheat fields. We failed miserably. One place i hunt is 160 acres of wheat. It is not unusual to see 80-150 hogs on that field at the same time. We would shoot a few hogs before they ran into the nearby thickets and swamps.

Helicopter shooting is the way to control hogs. Last year a game warden killed 74 wild hogs in a couple hours from a helicopter.

 

[Newtosavage]

Helicopter shooting is the way to control hogs. Last year a game warden killed 74 wild hogs in a couple hours from a helicopter.

Winner.

 

[Art Eatman]

Choppers'n'piggies:

https://vimeo.com/21181307

 

[TimSr]

In Tennessee, last time I checked, feral hogs were classed as vermin to be exterminated.
Sports hunting was outlawed (it was an incentive to introduce feral hogs into new areas).
Trap and release was outlawed (trapped feral hogs could not leave the property alive).
Sounds like Ohio may have similar rules.

The point of the OP was that our state fish and game entity - Ohio Dept of Natural Resources encourages hog hunting, and there or no restrictions. Any weapon, anytime, day or night (except special regs during the week of deer gun season). As I mentioned earlier, even the USFS employees on the ground don't seem to subscribe to the USFS policy of discouraging hunting.

It is illegal here to remove one from a trap without killing it first.

 

[shootniron]

Helicopter shooting is the way to control hogs

Helicopter hunting will not control hog populations most of the eastern US...cover is too dense. It will work in places, but overall, it will not.

 

[alsaqr]

It is illegal here to remove one from a trap without killing it first.

That is a very good law. Wish we had it in OK.

 

[TimSr]

I got some new info on this today with communications with the USDA biologist in charge of trapping them in Ohio. It makes a little more sense as it pertains to hunting them.

Many northern and Midwest states would likely not have a feral swine issue if it weren’t for irresponsible hunters. In Ohio, we’ve exhausted hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars eliminating emergent populations in Lorain and Lucas Counties (to name a few). These populations were established illegally by irresponsible individuals to create a huntable population. Had it been illegal to hunt feral swine in Ohio, these populations would never been have introduced.

 

[redneck]

I suppose I understand the logic, but that is kind of like the anti gunner argument that we wouldn't have crime if we made guns illegal.

Maybe I am wrong but I thought that it was always illegal in ohio to trap any wild animal for those purposes. You can raise whitetail deer but you have to get them through a deer farm, you can't trap and domesticate them yourself. Maybe there is a loophole because they were releasing them on public property? Seems to me they were breaking the law either way, and I doubt they would have cared if it was illegal to hunt the animals they were illegally importing.

Deer farms also don't have to follow game and fish regulations for hunting, because they are considered domestic animals and not game animals. There are "hunting preserves" in ohio that advertise you can hunt with any rifle you want, and don't have to buy tags. If that is the case you could also say that you are going to start raising russian pigs on your deer farm, and they would be considered a domestic and you could charge people to hunt them, but that wouldn't stop them from rooting under fences and going feral.

In the end I think they would be a lot better off to teach conservation, explain why the pigs are such a problem, and encourage hunters to take part. Keep up the trapping program if you want, but educate the public about how you are doing it and why it works, and maybe sportsman will find a way to help. Telling us to climb trees and leave it to the professionals is just dumb.

 

[buck460XVR]

I got some new info on this today with communications with the USDA biologist in charge of trapping them in Ohio. It makes a little more sense as it pertains to hunting them.

Quote:
Many northern and Midwest states would likely not have a feral swine issue if it weren’t for irresponsible hunters. In Ohio, we’ve exhausted hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars eliminating emergent populations in Lorain and Lucas Counties (to name a few). These populations were established illegally by irresponsible individuals to create a huntable population. Had it been illegal to hunt feral swine in Ohio, these populations would never been have introduced.

Here in Wisconsin, the hunting of feral hogs was originally legalized to protect farmland and habitat from destruction from domestic hogs that escaped from farms and went feral. The thought was to get them before they create a viable hunting population. We always had the law against introducing/releasing hogs with the sole purpose of hunting them in the wild. Still folks attempt to release feral hogs with hopes they will reproduce and provide sport for them in an area they hunt. Seems to be a Catch-22. Still, the discouraging of hunting them by the USFS, is in areas where those populations already exist. I don't see the relationship. If there was one, why not just ban the hunting of feral hogs in counties where the animals are not yet present? Big difference between just discouraging and banning/making something illegal. IMHO, the discouragement is intended as originally stated in the OP, to make the trapping of hogs in those areas more efficient.

 

[3212]

Art Eatman,Where do I sign up for the Texas Hog Airforce?LOL

 

[TimSr]

If there was one, why not just ban the hunting of feral hogs in counties where the animals are not yet present? Big difference between just discouraging and banning/making something illegal. IMHO, the discouragement is intended as originally stated in the OP, to make the trapping of hogs in those areas more efficient.

Funny but that was my first response too. I agree with the last sentence as well. He said he has a lot of trouble with some "hunters" interfering with their traps, (which is also illegal). I have illusions that my hunting will put any dent in the population, but my biggest contribution is my feedback to them with specific locations, which I wouldn't be finding if I wasn't out hunting them.

So far though, the state of Ohio is showing no signs or interest in ending hog hunting.

 

[buck460XVR]

So far though, the state of Ohio is showing no signs or interest in ending hog hunting.

Kinda one of those, "once you open the dam" kinda things. hard to take something away from folks after they've had it for a while. When I first started hunting deer here in Wisconsin, baiting of any kind was illegal. Salt licks, apples or grain deposited strictly to lure in deer was considered something done by only the lowest form of poachers. Once they legalized baiting there was mixed feelings with those in favor and those against, with both sides animate in their choice. as the years went on it became a more and more acceptable form of hunting and selling deer food and other products specifically intended to bait deer became big business here. Then came CWD and the fact that feeding and baiting deer enhances the risk to deer to contract it. Thus the state banned feeding and baiting of deer. You'd have thought the DNR shut down the whole deer season by the amount of protesting and whining, even tho it was for the overall good of our deer herd. There was so much protesting and continued illegal baiting and feeding that the state opened it up again and only banned it in areas where CWD is present. Still, the DNR suspects baiting and feeding is still heavily used in those areas. What was once scorned by all is now considered necessary by many.

 

[3212]

Yeah,baiting is illegal in PA,but various forms of bait are selling in all the stores that cater to hunters.The guys that buy it say "You have access to farmland so its no different".Leveling the "field" so to speak.

 

[Art Eatman]

3212: Take your pick:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=helicopter+hog+hunting

 

[jeepnik]

I had a thought. If you kill a breeding age sow, she can't have any more piglets. Now it seems to me if that sow weren't killed she would have more piglets. So, how do they figure killing a sow won't effect the population growth? I know that's just common sense, and I'm sure they have statistics to back up their claim.

But remember what the man said so many years ago. "There are three types of lies. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

 

[Flintknapper]

I had a thought. If you kill a breeding age sow, she can't have any more piglets. Now it seems to me if that sow weren't killed she would have more piglets. So, how do they figure killing a sow won't effect the population growth?

No question about that.

But, the Game Departments position (which I believe is correct at THIS point) is one of 'efficiency', what will be most effective at this juncture?

Yes, every time a sow of breeding age is killed, you have potentially 'eliminated' anywhere from 6 to 12 pigs in a single year. In reality, most pigs, most places have a single litter of 6-8 piglets (more are possible). Two litters in a year is possible, but doesn't really happen all that often.

Litters are equally divided males/females and both sexes are capable of reproduction at about 8 months of age, though 1 year is more the average. So the potential for the population to grow rapidly is certainly there.

But back to the issue at hand. When populations are still small and hunting pressure is not yet great, hogs can be trapped with good success. Much better to trap 8-10 pigs (missing a few) than to shoot one (maybe two) and have larger 'educated' group escape.

Make no mistake, hogs learn quickly. Yes...I know someone is going to say they catch/kill hogs from the same sounder...routinely. Under some circumstances (high competition for food, bedding areas, water, etc) I am sure that is true, but its not the norm most places.

Any place/State that has a burgeoning population had better on them quick and use the most effective methods available to them.

IF the population is already out of hand....then yes, I support 'the every little bit helps' position, but prior to that, let the State hunt them smartly.

IMO, the two worst things you can do with hogs is to hunt them before you understand them (leading to a low percentage of kills, but educating a LOT of them) and running them dogs (great sport, but rarely results in many pigs being taken, spreads pigs out and educates them).

There really is no easy answer to controlling their numbers, but in places where they have recently been introduced... I'd recommend getting on them quickly, unless you want a permanent problem.

 

[Art Eatman]

A problem with relying on state efforts is twofold: Bureaucratic inertia and budget for a new effort.

 

[TimSr]

I had a thought. If you kill a breeding age sow, she can't have any more piglets. Now it seems to me if that sow weren't killed she would have more piglets. So, how do they figure killing a sow won't effect the population growth? I know that's just common sense, and I'm sure they have statistics to back up their claim.

I guess the point of this thread is that long term consequences can be complicated and hard to calculate. Simple math says that 5 sows will produce more offspring than 4, but the more long term question is "will 5 not so wary of human sows survive longer and produce more offspring than 4 sows that have been run by dogs, shot at or otherwise been pursued by humans before?"

In Ohio, especially on our public hunting land, we also have to look at whether "educating hogs" by people hunting them would be any more of a negative than a few hundred thousand deer hunters in the woods in one week who are NOT allowed to shoot them. I can guarantee that deer hunting pressure scatters and educates far more hogs in Ohio than hog hunters. I think that's why they've taken the approach of basically not encouraging people to hunt hogs, but at the same time shoot them if you see them while your hunting.

 

[alsaqr]

IMO: Wild hogs are learning and evolving. i've spent thousands of hours hunting, trapping and observing wild hogs. Wild hogs seem to learn pretty quick. In one area i hunt there are numerous hog doggers. When shot at or chased by dogs; the sounders there bunch up tight and run. They refuse to bay.

A game warden who has shot thousands of hogs from the air told me that some sounders have learned to stay put in the thickets when the helo comes over.

To put it simply; you can either feed hogs or trap hogs, you can't do both. So long as hogs are reasonably well feed, the vast majority of adults will refuse to enter traps. Sometimes one catches a few juveniles or small pigs at feeders.

In one area i have shot about 20 big wandering boars since early last fall. We have trapped an additional 8-10 mature boars in that area. One huge sow we trapped was nursing six pigs and was pregnant with nine more.

 

[Flintknapper]

alsaqr wrote:

IMO: Wild hogs are learning and evolving. i've spent thousands of hours hunting, trapping and observing wild hogs. Wild hogs seem to learn pretty quick.

^^^^^^ Agreed. I've been actively shooting, trapping and snaring hogs for 29 years now. There is NO question that their behavior has changed. They are much harder to kill now...than before.

In one area i hunt there are numerous hog doggers. When shot at or chased by dogs; the sounders there bunch up tight and run. They refuse to bay.

Unfortunately, we have our share of hog doggers here too. Unless hogs are under high-fence or otherwise constrained by terrain features/other, catching hogs with dogs results in only a few being caught (IF you have good dogs).

The remainder escape and have been further conditioned to avoid dogs. So much so...that around here, many hogs will start running once they hear the first dog bark or hear a truck come on the property late at night, a cage rattle, anything.

Additionally, the dogs run through many properties in seach/pursuit of the hogs. We see hogs dogs out on the highway (waiting to be picked up) every weekend. I have pictures of hog dogs on my cameras not infrequently.

More than once...I've been baiting an area or pen trap waiting for the right time to set the trap door, only to have the hogs run out of the area by hog doggers who do not have permission to be on our property.

A game warden who has shot thousands of hogs from the air told me that some sounders have learned to stay put in the thickets when the helo comes over.

This doesn't surprise me. Feral hogs make 'associations' quickly. They don't have to have something bad happen to them over and over to learn from the experience. They are slowly but steadily becoming harder targets than before.

To put it simply; you can either feed hogs or trap hogs, you can't do both. So long as hogs are reasonably well feed, the vast majority of adults will refuse to enter traps. Sometimes one catches a few juveniles or small pigs at feeders.

Yep, I've long said there are only two kinds of hogs you will trap. 'Needy' hogs and 'Greedy' hogs. They aren't going into the trap out of curiosity.

A needy hog is one that is struggling for food sources or might be a sow with a litter (they can become very drawn up from the nursing). These will be easier to catch or lure into a bait site.

A 'greedy' hog (has other food choices) will simply take advantage of the readily available meal and will sometimes lower its guard. But...they are learning NOT to rush in, if they have experienced any hunting pressure.

In one area i have shot about 20 big wandering boars since early last fall. We have trapped an additional 8-10 mature boars in that area.

That is a great total. Where I live, mature boars are the harder target. They are constantly on the move in search of receptive females, so any time I see one on camera, I have to get on them right away...or they'll be gone.

One huge sow we trapped was nursing six pigs and was pregnant with nine more.

Most likely the nursing pigs were not hers. Usually a Sow will not breed back until she has weaned her offspring. But that's the thing about Feral Pigs, the Sows will nurse communally. Normally a sow nurses its own piglets, but if a Sow dies or is killed, another will raise her brood. So survival is generally pretty good.

The joke around here (not too far from the truth) is " A sow will have a litter of 8 pigs and 9 of them will survive"!

I don't know how many hundreds of pigs I've killed over the years, but sometimes it seems pointless, they just keep making more. At best, I can keep them out of the pastures.

 

[balderclev]

Arkansas is getting more pigs everyday. AGFC allows hunting during deer season but stated that trapping was more efficient. I have seen it proven on a friends farm. He has had hogs come onto his place twice in the last 2 years. He has a river bottom hay field that is irregated. The hogs come in at night and it looks like a tiller went thru the place. If you wanted to shoot one you would have to do it at night or with dogs. Both meathods are illegal in Arkansas. He bought traps and is hog free now. Last spring he caught 8 in the same trap. You could hunt them all year and not kill 8.

Hunting hogs in Arkansas.

On private land: Any weapon 365 days a year. Hunting at night with lights. Leave them lay or eat them. Baiting is allowed.

On public land: Must be daylight when a hunting season is open. Must be legal weapon for that season. No night hunting. No baiting allowed. Leave them lay or eat them.

I will eat sows or very young boars. Others, I will just leave for the coyotes.

You can kill a lot of pigs if you hunt at night.

From the Arkansas Game & Fish Commission:

Private*Lands
Allowances*for*the*control*of*feral*hogs*are*made
through*the*Arkansas*State*Legislature. On*private
land, feral*hogs*may*be*killed*or*trapped*year*round,
day*or*night, by*a*landowner*or*anyone*who*has*the
landowner’s*permission. There*is no*limit*to*the*number
of*feral*hogs*that*can*be*harvested*on*private
land. Landowners*and*hunters*do*not*need*a*hunting
license*from*the*Arkansas*Game*and*Fish*Commission
to*take*feral*hogs*on*private*land, but*anyone
who*has*a*revoked*hunting*license*is*not*allowed*to
hunt*feral*hogs*during*the*time*of*revocation.
• Piling*or*scattering*bait, such*as*corn, to*attract
hogs*is*legal*on*private*land, in*accordance*with
other*wildlife*baiting*laws.
• Using*a*spotlight*to*shoot*feral*hogs*on*private
land*is*permitted, but*it*is*recommended*contacting
your*local*wildlife*officer*with*the*Arkansas
Game*and*Fish*Commission*before*the*hunt. It*is
unlawful*to*shoot*deer*and*other*wildlife*at*night,
and*notifying*the*officer*will*alert*him/her*of*your
intention*to*legally*remove*hogs, and*avoid*possible
misunderstandings*and*issuance*of*a*citation.
• The*use*of*dogs*to*take*hogs*on*private*land*is
legal. Hunters*and*their*dogs*must*stay*off*land
where*the*landowner’s*permission*to*hunt*has*not
been*granted. It*is*unlawful*for*a*person*to*hunt
or*trap*on*private*property*of*another*person
without*having*obtained*verbal*or*written
permission*from*the*landowner*or*lessee*of
the property