USPSA vs IDPA

[Berger.Fan222]

All shooting practice is better than no shooting practice. But the first few times you attend a specific kind of event are new to you and you are coming up the learning curve and adapting. After that you are refining skills specific to that game rather than adapting or growing.

Therefore, my advice is to keep trying new things. The shooter who finishes in the top half of 10 different pistol competitions is likely better prepared for a self defense use of a pistol than the shooter who finishes in the top 10% of any single one.

But none of that is likely to matter much if your situational awareness is lagging. You win every gunfight you avoid, and you have a much better chance if you see it coming a few seconds earlier.

 

[ATLDave]

But the first few times you attend a specific kind of event are new to you and you are coming up the learning curve and adapting. After that you are refining skills specific to that game rather than adapting or growing.

I don't think that's an accurate statement at all. Shooting USPSA (and practicing to shoot USPSA matches) has forced continued improvement to my actual shooting and gun-handling skills for several years straight. I consider being able to hit a target quickly and repeatedly to not be a game-specific skill, and you'll get better at that in shooting the "practical" disciplines for far more than "the first few times."

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I don't think that's an accurate statement at all. Shooting USPSA (and practicing to shoot USPSA matches) has forced continued improvement to my actual shooting and gun-handling skills for several years straight. I consider being able to hit a target quickly and repeatedly to not be a game-specific skill, and you'll get better at that in shooting the "practical" disciplines for far more than "the first few times."

That's a fine opinion, but you don't know how much better you'd be (or not) had you split the same effort over USPSA, IDPA, action pistol, steel challenge, Bullseye, 3gun, 2gun, etc.

 

[ATLDave]

That may be true, but your statement was that after your first few matches, you're only refining game-specific skills. Maybe that's not what you actually meant.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

It helps to realize that the question in the OP is like:

Which is better training for a hand to hand street fight, karate or judo?

Which is better training for a real life sword fight, saber or epee?

 

[ATLDave]

Yes. And I think the notion that taking 3 classes in each of those versus really learning one is better is suspect, at best.

One of the practical benefits of competition shooting is that it forces you to deal with pressure and incentivizes you to really practice and improve. Those who "dabble" in a gun game may feel relatively little pressure, since they can say, "oh, I'm just new and having fun, of course the 'gamers' are going to beat me." Similarly, because finishing 45th out of 60 won't hurt their feelings, they can easily decide they did "well enough" and not figure out a way to devote a lot of hours to improvement. Conversely, the person who has committed to a particular sport is going to have enough ego involved - enough skin in the game - that they're going to care about results. That will mean feeling match pressure. It will also mean a greater willingness to seriously drive towards progress. How much? That will vary by person.

I'm for people shooting a lot of things, but I think some of the bigger benefits are missed by not becoming semi-serious about at least one of them.

 

[thomas15]

I started out in pistol competitions in IDPA which overall is less expensive to start than USPSA. My first year of IDPA was also my first year shooting handguns. At the end of that year I was not happy and only classified marksman.

I took a year off but did a lot of shooting then I did several USPSA matches and 1 or 2 IDPA. I think for a competitor USPSA is harder to excel in, IDPA has a lot of silly rules. So now that I can look back at both I agree with others that say neither help in a tactical sense but will gain general gun handling skills in both IDPA and USPSA. I have since put most of my efforts into steel and so I really don't have a great set up for either game but I can enter either one with what I have. In the fall I'm going to enter 1 or 2 matches of each. My goal is to get another gun like my steel gun and set it up the same except without optics and shoot USPSA with it. As far as IDPA is concerned I'm going to practice the classifier over the winter and try for either Expert or Master in revolver next spring. If that happens then I probably will not participate in IDPA because my skills will not match my classification. Crazy I know.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Yes. And I think the notion that taking 3 classes in each of those versus really learning one is better is suspect, at best.

Right. But my analogy is more like being in the top half of practitioners in 10 martial arts is a better choice than being in the top 10% of only one of them, since I wrote:

The shooter who finishes in the top half of 10 different pistol competitions is likely better prepared for a self defense use of a pistol than the shooter who finishes in the top 10% of any single one.

Three lessons is unlikely to get you to the top half of anything.

 

[justice06rr]

I will always prefer USPSA over IDPA.. To many rules an unrealistic scenarios, in IDPA. (least the clubs I tried) My gun will never be in the boat up in the tree with my magazines in the car by the beach.
All are games that will teach you to handle your gun and movements better.

All IDPA's and organizations are different. Those stages seem to be overboard. In the IDPA's I've done, you always start with the pistol concealed on your person.

Both are good disciplines, depending on your purpose. Most competitors you see who are sponsored and wearing those sponsored shirts are USPSA (correct me if I'm wrong) while most IDPA you are in plain clothes.

Speed is not the end-all goal (at least not for me) -- which I feel they emphasize more in USPSA. Running through a stage shooting targets as fast as you can is not real life. But if you like that type of sport shooting, go for it. I think people can benefit from both types.

I would compare it to driving on the street vs racing on a track. The street has all these rules and stop signs/lights, while the other does not. (And yes, I've raced motorcylces on the track)

 

[tarosean]

Those stages seem to be overboard. In the IDPA's I've done, you always start with the pistol concealed on your person.

slightly exaggerated! That said, Ive still Ive seen some asinine stages over the years.

Most competitors you see who are sponsored and wearing those sponsored shirts are USPSA (correct me if I'm wrong)

I would say that 99% of the people wearing jerseys went to a major match, read "free" with your entry, or purchased them from their club or elsewhere. There are very very few shooters with a free ride in shooting sports.

One of our members, NY32182 is one of the top shooters in the country maybe he will chime in on that aspect?

Since I live in the gulf coast I prefer the High-Tech shirts that wick away sweat.. Ive never worn a Jersey, even though I have a few sitting in the closet.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

There are very very few shooters with a free ride in shooting sports.

One of the students we trained landed a sponsorship a few years ago. The sponsorship more than paid for their shooting activities for a couple years. Hint: getting a 5 figure sponsorship is a lot easier if you are drop dead gorgeous and look great in all the advertisements for your sponsor.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have a corporate sponsor who was impressed by my Team Mediocre logo and provided a new Armadillo with her trademark. All in fun, no real income.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I've trained in martial arts for decades. I'm not a fan of competitions and sparring but I do them to be well rounded. Unlike many I train for self defense first and everything else second. But done right it all complements and makes me better in all aspects. And yes the times I've had to use my skills for self defense the training paid off.

I mention this as I look at my shooting as another self defense skill. And I look at competition as a way to improve my skills. That said, unlike martial arts competition which I don't enjoy, I want to try shooting competition as they look fun. Since I haven't competed yet, I may be wrong, or I may be right so only trying will said.

Not wanting to embarrass myself, I've found that my range practice is now more focused and I work on improving my skills. Combine this with the discipline, ability to stay calm from my martial arts I'm sure if I'm ever in another crisis, I'd do what I did before and stay cool, and defend myself and others around me.

So while sport shooting isn't exactly the same as real world I think it has a place.

 

[waktasz]

Just go out and do it. Nobody wins their first match

 

[John L Venable]

Hello, new to the forum and came across this thread, I am now in my 72nd year, and have not shot in handgun competition since 1996... IPSC/USPSA... have shot in several Area, State and many many local matches is both Open and what's now Standard/Classic using a 1911 Colt Gold Cup (tuned), EGW Race gun in .38 Super, and a Sig P228 9mm. When I left i basin the newly formed Senior Division.... My Opine on USPSA, is that it became an athletic competition rather than a shooting match. I've practiced and drilled with Grandmasters, the Robs and Todds and Bianchi Cup Champions, on one of my last matches, Bruce Piatt gave me a red dot because mine had died. No I wasn't even a top 20 shooter, but i hung in the top half. Whats happened to IPSC is.. it became an road race, not a shooting match... no way was a 50 something year old gonna run, dodge and jump like a 20 something year old... Blowem away in Bill Drills, certainly can't run the course. not familiar with IDPA experience. It comes down to Practice, Gun Handling and Common sense. OK, That was my Rant, stay safe, be sure of your target, Double Check.

 

[Jim Watson]

Man, 20 years wasted.
I am 72 and shoot more IDPA than USPSA, but am accustomed to the young bucks running amuck. I still have a good time.

 

[GEM]

I'm with Jim. I shoot IDPA with some Steel or a special purpose close range match. They are fun and I regard them as trigger time for accuracy, reload and malfunction practice under speed conditions. USPSA - doesn't do it for me but I have lots of IDPA options.

Neither has realistic SD scenarios. You would die in each if faced with 5 to 10 opponents, despite your speed and cover skills. I always thought it would be fun to have an airsoft stage where the targets were replaced with guys with airsoft guns who could fire when you got to the position to engage them or moved to positions.

In any case, if you want tactics - take decent courses with well thought out FOF exercises (that don't become paintball) or more realistic target displays (like 3D, must drop targets).

Since I'm almost 70, I prefer a stately stroll through the IDPA stages. I'm very accurate but get teased about speed. Tell my crappy knees about that. If I want to win, I shoot a gun that isn't common. I came in 2nd recently in CDP but there were only 4 shooting that division. Ha. I once came in second after a national champion revolver shooter. Guess how many were shooting revolvers that day! But it was fun with my old SW Model 19 and HKS speed loaders. My time in second place differed by an order of magnitude. Ha!

 

[egd]

I'm 67 and I think I can run and shoot just as good as any 20 year old. Now if I could just convince my legs and reflexes of that......

 

[MrBorland]

no way was a 50 something year old gonna run, dodge and jump like a 20 something year old...

"The Great One" is 56 years old, won 24 USPSA titles (including 2016), and has had two knee replacements. It ain't all about athleticism - good shooters and stage planners still do well. Besides, as Jim pointed out, having a good time is important, no matter how you place.

 

[ATLDave]

No matter how fast you run, no points are awarded in USPSA for speed.... you have to shoot stuff. Yes, it's advantageous to be fleet of foot, as it is in 90% of sports. But I see old or fat or just leaden-footed shooters beating young, swift shooters every match when those abler athletes can't execute the shots.

Between two shooters of similar shooting skill, yes, the one who runs faster has an advantage. No, a D-class shooter with Usain Bolt's foot speed is no threat to even a B-class shooter, let alone someone actually good.

 

[tarosean]

"The Great One" is 56 years old, won 24 USPSA titles (including 2016), and has had two knee replacements.

and still finishes in the top 10 at Nationals...

 

[waktasz]

slightly exaggerated! That said, Ive still Ive seen some asinine stages over the years.



I would say that 99% of the people wearing jerseys went to a major match, read "free" with your entry, or purchased them from their club or elsewhere. There are very very few shooters with a free ride in shooting sports.

One of our members, NY32182 is one of the top shooters in the country maybe he will chime in on that aspect?

Since I live in the gulf coast I prefer the High-Tech shirts that wick away sweat.. Ive never worn a Jersey, even though I have a few sitting in the closet.

Most of the guys wearing shirts have more of an affiliate marketing arrangement or discount program than a true sponsorship. They get a break on prices on stuff in return for advertising for the company.
There are some guys getting free stuff or getting paid too, but not as many.
A few of the bullet manufacturers offer a discount for anyone wearing one of their shirts and using their bullets. Some even pay cash or product for match wins.

 

[thomas15]

Just go out and do it. Nobody wins their first match

I agree. I would add try (or at least investigate) all of the competition options available to you.

But, if it's not fun, it's dumb.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I agree. I would add try (or at least investigate) all of the competition options available to you.

But, if it's not fun, it's dumb.

I'd add ...go watch a match THEN try one the next time.
I just found a local monthly match and will do this as I'd like to know what to expect.

 

[waktasz]

Don't do that. Bring your gear and do it.