Uzis and motorcycles (Hollywood or reality?)

[Yohan]

Ok, I was watching Hard Boiled the other night, and I was wondering, how hard would it be to drive a motorcycle and shoot at the same time? Would the recoil from the automatic weapon throw your balance off? One of the reasons I began asking this was because I am getting very very very interested in purchasing a motorcycle (Kawasaki Ninja 250), and I thought it was amusing to see the riders jumping off of ramps blasting off their Uzis (With unlimited ammo supply and perfect aim). Also, on a side note, how many of you guys carry while riding around on motorcycles?Have any of you guys who live in remote areas tried to target shoot while riding on a motorcycle? Let's hear it


*mods- delete this next part if deemed neccesary*
By the way, if anyone here knows a lot about motorcycles, I would be eternally grateful if you could PM me some tidbits and information about what my first bike should be and what I can expect. I'm 5'3, so a tall bike is out of question for me.)

 

[Tamara]

Well, shooting from a moving bike means either your clutch hand or throttle hand is busy. Both make any kind of maneuvering hard.

This would be why stunt riders get paid so much.

When I ride my bike (currently a TL1000S), I carry in a Galco fanny pack with neoprene backing so as to have at least a thin layer of padding between me and the gun in case I go asphalt surfing (again).


PS: Very mature choice for a first bike. PM lendringser; he has one.

 

[Aikibiker]

Road Warrior fantasies aside I don't think shooting a gun from a moving motorcycle is such a good idea. Unless I was damn sure I could hit my target I would be real worried about where the bullet would go. In a self defense situation it is better to use the motorcycles superior handling and acceleration to out maneuver and enemy. Especially one in a car that can knock you into curb without taking any appreciable damage in return.

As I was writing the above I recalled an article in either SWAT or SOF about Israeli border police using 650 enduro bikes and learning to shoot from them. Both the passenger and the driver from the pictures. The passengers did indeed have Uzi's.

The Kawasaki Ninja 250 is a good bike. They are rugged and dependable. Also small and light enough for a new rider to easily handle with enough power to get you away from a tight spot. I like mine. Also seat height can be adjusted by raising or lowering the suspension.

No matter what bike you get remember these 3 things keep your situational awareness at all times, wear a helmet (leather jacket and gloves when the weather allows), and make sure the tires are in good shape.

Hope this helps,

 

[Pendragon]

There was a terror group in Europe - Germany if I recall that liked to do hits with one person driving the bike, and the passenger using a Scorpion .32 SMG to do the deed...

 

[MicroBalrog]

Same thing was also pulled both by the Israeli Mafia and by Mossad assasins...

 

[Hal]

I was wondering, how hard would it be to drive a motorcycle and shoot at the same time?

Darn near impossible. When you get right down to it, doing anything except controlling a bike when you're driving it is darn near impossible. Things just happen too fast. (The WWII Germans used a guy in a side car.)

The power/weight ratio makes response almost instantaneous. Yes,,things do happen faster on 2 wheels. You can tromp the gas pedal of any of the new cars,,any of them,,all the way to the floor, and still not get anywhere the *snap* even a moderatly powered bike will deliver. You can crank the steering wheel a quater turn, and still not get the change of direction even a "twitch" of the bars will give you. Braking OTOH, takes an eternity. What I'm saying is that all your movements are magnified 1K times. Also, on mid weight bikes, you as the driver are one of the controls. Stick your hand out the window of a car and nothing happens. Stick your arm out on a bike and it acts as a rudder.

Couple/few tips I can give you to stay alive and retain skin:

- The throttle is your best friend. Never rely on your brakes to get you out of trouble. Acceleration is your strong point. Learn how to use it.
- You are 100% invisible. No one else on the road can see or hear you. Act accordingly.
- Every other motorist is out to get you. Paranoia is a good thing. It will save your skin.
- Leather is your second best friend. Even in 90 degree weather, heavy leather isn't uncomfortable. Keep as much of your hide covered as you can. A wasp on a windsheild ain't nothing. Take one down your shirt and,,,,,
- Anything bad above 50 mph and you're toast.
- Anything bad under 50 mph and you're toast.
I lived through a dump @ ~ 50 and only had a buggered up knee.
My best friend bought it in a collision with a car @ < 15 mph. What I'm saying is you never know. Try you best to avoid anything bad.
- Helmets are good. Helmets can fail. (see above) My best friend was wearing a Bell (@ the time it was the best you could buy). 600lbs of 750 Kaw came down on his head as he was sandwiched between the bike and the hood of a car. His head expanded inside the helmet and it had to be cut off.
- Experience isn't your best teacher,,,it's your only teacher. Every ride, every time is 100% different than any other. There's some thing in common though. You'll pick em out.
- Cold sucks. No,,,cold REALLY sucks. I had to ride 15 miles through +10 degree F weather with nothing but a single pair of light gloves and a light denim jacket.
- Hail is worse than cold. Matter of fact, hail is the worst possible condition to be caught in. Next to hail are those big-chunk-rock type gravel roads. (Least those big rocks don't hitcha in the jewels)(See above about helmets)(Yeah I caught caught in a hail strom and had to do the quick shift of the helmet from head to,,err,,head- - long story)

Bottom line. It's worth every second.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

God, let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a MOVIE. John Woo hires stuntmen and women to preform the action scenes. I wouldn't recommend anyone do anything as stupid as what you see in a film. By the way, if it's Woo -- you know it's not "Hollywood" right? He's from Hong Kong. As far as reality...you can't seriously expect realism -- do you?

 

[Chris Rhines]

Louis Awerbuck (himself apparently a two-wheel enthusiast) has an article in Tactical Reality about self-defense on a motorcycle. Check it out.

- Chris

 

[MicroBalrog]

What's Tactical Reality ?
Does it advocate carbon-fiber motorcycle helmets and kevlar tires?

 

[veloce851]

OK first about firing while riding.. I think it is possible albiet not very effective.. and I would have to agree with the comment on using the agility and speed of the motorcycle to be your primary defense than any firearm. That and I could hardly see any reason one would be put in such a situation.

Now as far as the semi off topic... (it is related to firearms in that the level of attention and concentration required to ride a motorcycle for years on end without significant injury is akin to the mindfull skills and attention needed when handling firearms.)

First of all I have to counter the suggestion to not rely on your brakes and use your power as your primary "get out of the way" tool.
Now this depends to some degree on the type and brand of motorcycle you choose.. but judging from your initial interest in a 250 ninja I'll assume sportbikes are your interest. (Welcome to the club! )
But I would have to say 70% of a motorcycles control comes from the brakes. It would be wise to spend hours upon hours on a closed parking lot learning braking skills... what good is the get up and go power if you can't control it when you need to. And remember 90% of the braking effectiveness is in the front brakes. Forget the rear and learn to use only your frontbrakes..
Later on when you can afford it get to a track day and start learning to control your entry speed in corners using your front brake... the rear has its place.. but its not going to stop you in time if you have to pull a panic stop.
I also highly reccomend enrolling in a trackbased class like California Superbike School, or the Pridgemore's classes. There are many out there and they all will add something to your level of knowledge.

Finally... Wear a helmet (Don't buy into the helmets can cause injuries or fail line - no offense to the person who offered such evidence earlier, since it was stated that Bell was top of the line at the time of said friends incident. We are talking the 70's here...technology has progressed leaps and bounds since then- the bottom line is this... spend as much on a helmet as you think your head is worth. I'll swear by Arai. Expensive but the best.

I also suggest wearing leather or kevlar/cordura jacket or suit.
a bucket of sweat is well worth the pound of flesh that can and will be removed if you choose to be "cool"
Gloves and boots are a given too.

You are however in America, land of the free and home of the brave.. and brave you are if you choose to listen to squids and ride without the proper gear...

There are two kinds of riders.. those that have gone down ... and those that are going to.

Which is why you may want to look into a "naked" bike as a first... a Ducati Monster 600 or 750 would be ideal

Lastly and my apologies to everyone for rambling on about an offtopic... motorcycles and firearms are related in that they require a higher degree of responsibility.
Just use your head and you will spend a lifetime of riding enjoyment. Choose to be "cool" and you could suffer the same fate as a negligent ND.

Yohan if you have any questions feel free to PM me. I'm always happy to encourage and help out a new rider.

 

[TallPine]

His head expanded inside the helmet and it had to be cut off.

And I presume that amputation of his head was most likely fatal ...?

 

[4v50 Gary]

Easiest way to shoot a full automatic from a moving motorcycle is from the sidecar. Germans use to do it with a MG-34.

 

[AK103K]

Hal about covered the riding part. If you dont wear leather and a full face helmet, your a fool. They both saved my ??? in a couple of +55 wrecks. As for the machine gun part, you either shoot or ride, you aint doing both. I dont care what kind of SMG you have, it takes two hands and a shoulder to shoot it properly. Things always look so cool and easy in the movies.

 

[Kharn]

You mean I cant be like Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible 2 while shooting my Beretta over my shoulder and aiming using the mirror? There goes my weekend plans...

Kharn

 

[AK103K]

You can ONLY if you really look like Tom. Oh, check that mirror again, you got a big zit on your nose.

 

[Kharn]

Ak: Dont say that, I might shoot myself in the nose if I try to check my complexion while aiming at the same time...

Kharn

 

[Min]

The Israeli Special Forces uses motorcycles to chase after Palestinian/Arabic terrorists in urban areas. The motorcycle allows for great maneuverability and speed. However, each bike has two riders - one driving, and the other sitting behind with a Micro-Uzi.

 

[DrDremel]

I tried a dirt bike while shooting my subgun a few years ago to see if it could be done. It is useless for one person. A good way to crash your bike. The preferred way of shooting on a bike is two people with the rear person firing. I have done both shotgun and subgun and hits can be made at reasonable distances with this method.

 

[Destructo6]

As to the possibility of doing anything close to doing safe solo shooting from a moving motorcycle is very close to zero.

Unless you're going to use the 250 Ninja just to get your feet wet and have the cash to take the hit on resale, you might seriously consider something in the 600 class. Something like a CBR600F3+ would be pretty nice: safety via high performance.

I'll second the vote for the Arai brand helmet. They're so nice, you'll look forward to putting it on.

 

[Detritus]

not to highjack teh thread or go futher OT but...

anyone know of a good place on-line to go for an inital, "look around" at what is out there, at what price levels, and suitable for what/who???

if so i'd be interested. specifically in, Harleys and their more affordable clones.

 

[Zadlaf]

I am suprised nobody suggested this. Yohan, one word for you, or is it three? MSF aka Motorcycle Safety Foundation. Let me repeat. MOTORCYCLE SAFETY FOUNDATION! Also, you might want to check out www.cycleforums.com .

Good job on thinking about a Ninja 250 to start, buy it used and sell it after you are ready to upgrade. You won't loose that much money on it if anything at all. Remember, wear ALL your gear ALL the time.

Chris

P.S. MSF's website is www.msf-usa.org

P.P.S. On Cycleforums, there is a guy who rides with a H&K MP5SD.

 

[Jesse H]

Signed myself up for the MSF course at the end of the month. Also, Joe Rocket's ballistic jackets offer near leather protection, without the heat.

To keep it gun related, I doubt I'll carry IWB like I normally do when I start riding. I'd hate to go down on a hard object poking me in the hip/kidneys. Tamara's fanny pack idea sounds good.

Here's great thread about motorcycle carry:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14248&highlight=motorcycle+carry

 

[Logistar]

I think HAL is right on target. While it COULD be done I suppose.. the results likely wouldn't be worth the effort. (I'd have to shoot with my left hand while I kept my right hand on the throttle.) Good chance that the rider might end up taking a spill. Accuracy would be terribly bad.

I tried to videotape from the back of a bike once. - hard to hold the camera still with one hand.... AND when the driver makes an unexpected turn the camera is all over the place while I adjust to the change.

 

[TechBrute]

Don't buy a bike smaller than a 500. Lose any idea you have about shooting off a bike. Carry concealed.

 

[braindead0]

Darn near impossible. When you get right down to it, doing anything except controlling a bike when you're driving it is darn near impossible.

Not true, it all depends on your riding experience. You'll find that most (if not all) drag racers don't use the clutch anyway (I didn't when I was dragging), you can still brake either fighting the engine at idle or hitting the kill switch (and turning it back on of course).

I know 2 bikers that are missing an arm, and they have no problem riding (of course extra clutch lever).

It is certainly possible, the recoil from a 9mm SMG is puny compared to a 60mph side wind (which I can handle with one hand no problem).

So I can say with a great degree of certainty that it is possible and I'd even go as far to say it's easy.

Now, doing it on the dirt or other treacherous surface would be difficult, serious tight turning would be almost impossible..etc..

But it can be done.