Various black powder newbie questions

[stevekl]

Ok, I have a LOT of questions here. Just a warning!

I am thinking of getting into black powder shooting. Of course, I don't know anything about it, and i've never shot a black powder arm. I am not a hunter. I am interested in shooting them at the range, and that's about it.

So, the basicly I want to know if I should buy a traditional arm or an in-line rifle, and about cleaning, what I can shoot, and the like.

-Ok, cleaning: I am confused on this. It seems that because a black powder rifle's barrel is not open on each side, it can't be 'swabbed' in and out because the solvent will pool at the bottom and/or drip out the flash hole. I have learned, however, that the 'plug' that holds the nipple can be removed, which makes cleaning easier. Is this true?

-This leads to another question: can every black powder rifle do this? Also, isn't it true that in order to remove the plug from a traditional percussion rifle, you'd have to remove the stock first? Doesn't this make it easier to clean an in-line rifle, then?

Shooting:

-I have heard that in-line rifles are designed for sabots and conical bullets, and that traditional rifles are designed to shoot round balls. Does this mean that if I had a in-line rifle, I CAN'T shoot round balls, or it just won't produce good accuracy? I would like a rifle that can shoot all three types of bullets, just for fun's sake.

-Sabot rounds and conical bullets are not wadded, while round balls always are?

-Is shooting black powder cheaper than centerfire shooting? Shot per shot, can I get more shooting with less money with muzzle-loading? Say, a typical .50 bullet + powder + cap, does this cost less than say a moderately priced .30-6 cartridge?

Finally, a recomendation:

Let's say I wanted to get a rifle for under $400. What brand and model is best? I am looking for a rifle that can handle many typed of bullets (if that's possible) and one that is easy to clean and simply put together. I know there's a certain rivalry between in-line and traditionalist shooters, but as far as i'm concerned, I could live with either (or both!), as long as they fit the above criteria.

Oh yeah, I am 19 and live in Virginia. Can someone confirm for me that I can indeed simply ship a black powder rifle to my house without a license?

I know that was a long post. Thank you if you can answer one or more questions!

 

[mec]

One of the black powder books by Sam Fadala would be in order here. He writes for the industry and will cover all the guns from traditional to inline. Look at a gun shop or in the hobby/sports section at barnes and noble. Look for current editions as they will be more likely to include the inlines.

 

[Cap n Ball]

There are quite a few threads in this forum that deal with most of your questions. I suggest that you do a little looking and reading here and then ask about things that were not already covered. The inline versus traditional debate is endless and most shooters have tried both at one time or another. I would guess that most of us here are of the old school but don't let that keep you from asking.

 

[sebago]

Traditional or inline depends a lot on personal taste and the intended purpose. Me, I prefer the traditional types as I already have a bunch of modern guns and I like the historical nature of them.
Cleaning is easy, you can use solvents or the old hot, soapy water in a bucket method. I've used both with good results but I normally use the soap and water method. Just remove the nipple, put the breech end in the water and pump a tight fitting cleaning patch back and forth to get the fouling out. When clean dry the barrel completely and oil.
Inlines do have a fast rifling twist and they are intended to be used with conicals or sabots rather than round balls. Round balls need a slower twist, more like 1:48 or 1:66, to produce their best accuracy. Unless you're set up for casting your own, shooting patched round balls is far cheaper than shooting conicals.
As for a traditional rifle under $400. I'd recommend the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. I don't usually recommend something I don't have myself but those who do have them tend to be very pleased. Also the barrel is easily removed for cleaning as are many traditional style rifles. To shoot either round ball or conical a rifle with a 1:48 twist such as the Thompson/ Center Hawken or Renegade would work.
Hope this helps.

 

[Tinker]

Stevekl,

If you think you'd like to give a traditional sidelock type BP rifle a try (and to learn with) you could check out a the CVA Bobat that Walmart sells. You can shoot patched round balls or medium weight conicals with it's 1/48" twist. Though it has a plastic stock and cheap, fixed sights you can "get your feet wet" with it by learning how to work up a load, shooting and cleaning.

Though it not near as nice as the Lyman GPR the Sebago mentioned, it is a lot of gun for the price. $54 at the local WM. I would suggest that you remove the stock nipple and replace it with a Hotshot. Also, in my experience, traditional sidelock percussion rifles work better, ignition-wise, with real black powder (like Goex). Substitute powders, like Pyrodex, don't like my sidelocks. If you found you liked traditional style guns you could order a nicer rifle later and still use the supplies (powder, balls, conicals, cleaning stuff, etc,) that you bought to feed the Bobcat and use them in a newer, nicer rifle like the Lyman later on.

If you have a source for pure lead you can buy a Lee Precision round ball mould for like $20 and cast your own shot. Lead casting is dangerous and needs certain precausions, but casting RB is about the cheapest shot you can find.

A decent inline would be somewhere between the Lyman and the Bobcat, cost-wise. Most of those are made for longer, heavier hunting loads like saboted bullets or large conicals. I've seen guys at the range shooting some really good groups with these rifles at the range. Substitute powders also work great in inlines.

Be careful. Sulpher smoke is addictive.

 

[Swamprabbit]

I ditto what others said about the book and searching the threads for answers. I will say that when I looked into getting into BP shooting several years ago, I went with the traditional ones and started out with a TC Renegade in .54. With the 1:48 twist, it did quite well with both hollow point bullets and patched balls. I never tried sabots.

Later, I got the itch for a long rifle (I am from KY ) and bought me a plain flintlock .45 with a 42" barrel. I have really enjoyed that rifle and is a lot of fun chipping out flints and casting my own balls.

From what I see, what you get may depend more on what you want to do with them. If having a muzzle loader that simply complies with your state's laws defining "muzzle loaders" for hunting, then a modern inline will most likely suit your needs. Using modern designs, powders, and projectiles, they are more easily shot accurately and easier to maintain. If, like me, you just want to "re-live" the old days, then a traditional style will suit. They can be just as dependable but it takes more effort to learn them and to care for them.

My last deer hunt with my flintlock I took along my 16 yr old daughter. The laughs we had over my flashs-in-the-pan was well worth the investment.

 

[rick_reno]

Are you planning on hunting with your BP rifle? or is it for target shooting? I had a traditional rifle (TC Hawken) for a number of years, I recently moved up/over to an in-line (TC Black Diamond XR - I've recently seen it on sale at Cabella's for about $180). The state I live in restricts me from using most in-line rifles but the TC BD is ok. Many of the in-line rifles come with a breech plug can be removed for cleaning - tho I never found cleaning my Hawken (no breech plug that could be removed) a problem to clean. In general, I'd have to agree that most in-lines are not good ball shooters. The twist is wrong. Balls use wads, the others don't. Cheaper? Beats me, I personally find it's a lot more fun than center fire rifles. I use mine for hunting, I found hunting with a modern center fire cartridge wasn't really much of a challenge, I could take any shot that presented itself and harvest an animal. With a MZ I have to get within my shot comfort zone, which for me is 75 to 100 yds. I can buy 20 TC conicals for about $7 on sale at Walmart, 100 musket caps cost about $5 and Pyrodex powder is $16 a pound, about 70 shots to a pound. A shot costs around $.65 if I used my kids calculator correctly.
If you're looking at cost, don't forget the ACCESSORIES. I remember years ago when I started this hobby, my father commented "I think you've found the most accessorized shooting hobby that exists". He was right. There are a lot of gadgets and gizmos for this sport.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Suggest you attend a Rendezvous and buy used. It's cheaper and you don't have to spend a whole heckuva lot on your first gun. It's a beginner to learn with and have fun with. My first rifle was a $45 kit gun.