Vermont secession?

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I found the article

The Washington Post - April 1, 2007 "The Once and Future Republic of Vermont"
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By Ian Baldwin and Frank Bryan
BURLINGTON, Vt.

The winds of secession are blowing in the Green Mountain State.

Vermont was once an independent republic, and it can be one again. We think the time to make that happen is now. Over the past 50 years, the U.S. government has grown too big, too corrupt and too aggressive toward the world, toward its own citizens and toward local democratic institutions. It has abandoned the democratic vision of its founders and eroded Americans' fundamental freedoms.

Vermont did not join the Union to become part of an empire.

Some of us therefore seek permission to leave.

A decade before the War of Independence, Vermont became New England's first frontier, settled by pioneers escaping colonial bondage who hewed settlements across a lush region whose spine is the Green Mountains. These independent folk brought with them what Henry David Thoreau called the "true American Congress" -- the New England town meeting, which is still the legislature for nearly all of Vermont's 237 towns. Here every citizen is a legislator who helps fashion the rules that govern the locality.

Today, however, Vermont no longer controls even its own National Guard, a domestic emergency force that is now employed in an imperial war 6,000 miles away. The 9/11 commission report says that "the American homeland is the planet." To defend this "homeland," the United States spends six times as much on its military as China, the next highest-spending nation, funding more than 730 military bases in more than 130 countries, abetted by more than 100 military space satellites and more than 100,000 seaborne battle-ready forces. This is the greatest military colossus ever forged.
Few heed George Washington's Farewell Address, which warned against the danger of a permanent large standing army that "can be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty." Or that of a later general-become-president: "We must never let the weight of [the military-industrial complex] endanger our liberties or democratic processes." Dwight D. Eisenhower pointedly included the word "congressional" after "military-industrial" but allowed his advisers to excise it. That word completes a true description of the hidden threat to democracy in the United States.

The two of us are typical of the diversity of Vermont's secessionist movement: one descended from old Vermonter stock, the other a more recent arrival -- a "flatlander" from down country. Our Vermont homeland remains economically conservative and socially liberal. And the love of freedom runs deep in its psyche.

Vermont seceded from the British Empire in 1777 and stood free for 14 years, until 1791. Its constitution -- which preceded the U.S. Constitution by more than a decade -- was the first to prohibit slavery in the New World and to guarantee universal manhood suffrage. Vermont issued its own currency, ran its own postal service, developed its own foreign relations, grew its own food, made its own roads and paid for its own militia. No other state, not even Texas, governed itself more thoroughly or longer before giving up its nationhood and joining the Union.

But the seeds of disunion have been growing since the beginning. Vermont more or less sat out the War of 1812, and its governor ordered troops fighting the British to disengage and come home. Vermont fought the Civil War primarily to end slavery; Abraham Lincoln did so primarily to save the Union. Vermont's record on the slavery issue was so strong that Georgia's legislature resolved that a ditch be dug around the "pestiferous" state and it be floated out to sea.

After the Great Flood of 1927, the worst natural disaster in the state's history, President Calvin Coolidge (a Vermonter) offered help. Vermont's governor replied, "Vermont will take care of its own." In 1936, town meetings rejected a huge federal highway referendum that would have blacktopped the Green Mountain crest line from Massachusetts to Canada.

Nor did Vermont sign on when imperial Washington demanded that the state raise its drinking age from 18 to 21 in 1985. The federal government thereupon resorted to its favored tactic, blackmail. Raise your drinking age, said Ronald Reagan, or we'll take away the money you need to keep the interstates paved. Vermont took its case for state control to the Supreme Court -- and lost.
It's quite simple. The United States has destroyed the 10th Amendment, which says that "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The present movement for secession has been gathering steam for a decade and a half. In preparation for Vermont's bicentennial in 1991, public debates -- moderated by then-Lt. Gov. Howard Dean -- were held in seven towns before crowds that averaged 230 citizens. At the end of each, Dean asked all those in favor of Vermont's seceding from the Union to stand and be counted. In town after town, solid majorities stood. The final count: 999 (62 percent) for secession and 608 opposed.

In early 2003, transplanted Southerner and retired Duke University economics professor Thomas Naylor gave a speech at Johnson State College opposing the Iraq war. When he pitched the idea of secession to the crowd, he saw many eyes "light up," he said. Later that year, he and several others started a loosely organized movement (now a think tank) called the Second Vermont Republic, which has an independent quarterly journal, Vermont Commons, and a Web site.

In October 2005, about 300 Vermonters attended a statewide convention on the question of secession. Six months later, the annual Vermont Poll of the University of Vermont's Center for Rural Studies found that about 8 percent of respondents replied "yes" to peaceful secession, arguably making Vermont foremost among the many states with secessionist movements (including Alaska, California, Hawaii, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Texas).

We secessionists believe that the 350-year swing of history's pendulum toward large, centralized imperial states is once again reversing itself.

Why? First, the cost of oil and gas. According to urban planner James Howard Kunstler, "Anything organized on a gigantic scale . . . will probably falter in the energy-scarce future." Second, third-wave technology is as inherently democratic and decentralist as second-wave technology was authoritarian and centralist. Gov. Jim Douglas wants Vermont to be the first "e-state," making broadband Internet access available to every household and business in the state by 2010. Vermont will soon be fully wired into the global social commons.
Against this backdrop, secessionists from all over the state will gather in June to plan a grass-roots campaign to get at least 200 towns to vote by 2012 on independence. We believe that one outcome of this meeting will be dialogues among different communities of Vermonters committed to achieving local economic vitality, be they farmers, entrepreneurs, bankers, merchants, lawyers, independent media providers, construction workers, manufacturers, artists, entertainers or anyone else with a stake in Vermont's future -- anyone for whom freedom is not just a slogan.
If Vermonters succeed in once again inventing vibrant local economies, these in turn may reinvigorate the small-scale democratic town meeting tradition, the true American Congress, and re-create the rudiments of a republic once again able to make its own way in the world. The once and future republic of Vermont.

[email protected]
[email protected]
Ian Baldwin is publisher of Vermont Commons. Frank Bryan, a political science professor at the University of Vermont, is author of "Real Democracy: The New England Town Meeting and How It Works."
 
I'd be kind of amusing if every single state succeeded and then banded back together with a smaller federal government that actually follows the Constitution (where "states rights" isn't just a concept in history books).
 
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There are secession movements in Texas (http://www.texasrepublic.com/), Hawaii (http://hawaii-nation.org/), South Carolina, Alaska, etc, etc. Some of their legal claims are good. Hawaii's annexation seems like it must have been illegal. It was along the same legal lines as Iraq's occupation of Kuwait. Unfortunately no super power came to the aid of the Hawaiians in their struggle against the illegal occupiers. Oh well. None of these movements will get anywhere, which is too bad I think.
 
You've been had:
The Washington Post - April 1, 2007

No it is real. There is a group in Vermont that is trying to get the state to succed from the US. A few friends who live there are members of the group. I also doubt that many people on THR would want to join them since it is a far left group who has little love for America. They basicaly want to create a European socialist state in Vermont. I wish them the best but I doubt it will ever happen.
 
Any secession movement, by definition, has little love for being part of the American government system. Does that mean they have little love for America? I don't know. I have love for countries that I'm not part of, so whatever.

None of these movements have ANY chance of success. The only way they could succeed is if somehow there is suddenly a compelling business case for it to happen. Like, everyone in the state is going bankrupt and is going to be in poverty if they don't bail out of the Union. Right now that is not the case anywhere. Just the opposite is the case. So many businesses would be so disrupted that none of the leaders in the states want it to happen.

Secession requires an overwhelmingly solid business case before it can happen, and that doesn't apply anywhere and it won't apply.

If our Federal government continues on its binge of overseas wars and imprisonment at home, to the extent that it is bankrupting all of its taxpayers, then secession becomes a real possibility. That's what happened in the Soviet Union. They spent all their resources on hopeless wars and unneeded military equipment, and the based all that on a mismanaged command economy (but I repeat myself) and finally they collapsed. Could the same thing happen here? It's possible but unlikely. They could start a draft and send a million troops to occupy Iraq and Iran and Afghanistan and then hire Haliburton to reconstruct everything in Tehran and then, yes, we would all be bankrupt and secession would start. But I don't see that happening, not remotely.
 
Any secession movement, by definition, has little love for being part of the American government system. Does that mean they have little love for America?

I am just telling you want my friends, who belong to this group have said to be me about this country. They really don't like much about it, and it is not only because of the Government. The main reason they told me is the political, and social direction this country had taken in the last 30 years. They believe the averge American is pretty dumb, and biggoted. They wish America was more like France. And I am not joking.
 
"If anyone is going to secede is it going to be California!"

Apparently, there are movements in California to leave the Union. After a Goggle search, I think there's little probability of this.
There is also a movement to return California to Mexico. I can't recall the name of the group but I think this could be a serious threat.

I do think Vermont and several other states could and would secede. The biggest hindrance is the states don't border each other (except west of the Mississippi)
 
Does that mean they have little love for America?

the USA is no longer AMERICA. were no longer the pinical of hard work, high morals and strong society.

not to get preachy. but if they do go for secession. il have to speed up my plans to move out of MA and into VT ( relax. im not a liberal M*******)
 
Yeah right. This wont happen. We KNOW what the federal goverment would do if you tried to succeed.

Worse that will happen is a bunch of idiots trying to 'return' California back to Mexico (I think people north of Santa Bernardino would have a problem with that!), which will be crushed very quickly, as we know liberals are afraid of guns so theyll surrender quickly :)
 
None of these things are remotely realistic unless there is a financial collapse of the Federal government.
 
Secession? Yawn.

What I wanna know is, can we *expel* a State?

Yes, I'm thinking of Massachusetts, California, NJ, etc.

Now, as a person whose proudest boast about his family is that every one of his great-grandfathers did every thing he could to kill every person he saw who was wearing the uniform of the United States Army, I'm generally sympathetic to secession, as long as it's done more rationally than hot-headedly. (the way we did it)

That set a very bad precedent.

And, the Feds made sure it could never happen again with the Dick Act, and the National Defense Act, and the curious fact that no State national guard is composed of all arms (infantry, armor, artillery, intel, tactical air, logistics, etc.) so as to make up a complete military force.
 
I doubt it will happen, even if a state that still has a lot of free minded people there isn't enough state loyalty anymore to do so. If it did great but I doubt it highly.

As to what would the .gov do? I think they would get seriously ticked and try something half hearted. But the libs on the hill scream bloody murder when things happen in Iraq, what you think is going to happen if they start killing Americans? America has little heart for war with others, let alone Americans.
 
"How would they (the feds) react" depends on the question, "what would secession look like 'on the ground'?" How would it start? Who would do it?

All these are absurd questions.

The way secession would work in the US is the way it did work in the Soviet Union. The central government there ran out of money so it was a no-brainer, an obvious choice for the other governments to say goodbye to them. The central government had no resources to give out so the local governments became the focus of power FIRST. After that had happened, then secession became simple, mostly non-violent and expected.

People don't get involved in revolutions for freedom. They get involved for their stomachs.
 
Well, I think a few things need to be said about this group: they're a bunch of whacko leftists behind it, big on the UN and socialist garbage.

That said, I fully support the movement. Let them do the dirty, dangerous work, the more conservative people in this state would take over power quite easily afterwards. These leftist types tend to be from cities like Burlington, and are anti-gun. But the greater number of people in this state do own at least some guns. Get my point? These unarmed "useful idiots" will get us back our free Republic, we can make it free afterwards because they're unarmed paperpushers for the most part.:D

The amusing thing is, the rich, largely non-Vermonter town of Killington (big ski resort place) wants to secede from VT and be part of NH. Now, if we could drive out the rest of the socialist hippy types who've invaded the state since the 1970's or so, and secede from the US, it'd be pretty nice, I'd abandon my plan to go to Alaska if that happens, but I do doubt any of this will happen.
 
Stuff like this makes me wonder what one would have to do to legally change the government or legally succeed... All said and done I have a house and a few bits of property that wants to succeed :neener:
 
Folks, this is for real....

Folks, I had Frank Bryan as a Poly Sci Prof at UVM 20 years ago and at that time he had already written a fictional account about how Vt seceeded from the US....its an absolutely hysterical book but its actually plausible.

He's a great old "Woodchuck"...drove an ANCIENT Chevette with something like 250,000 miles on it, lived on a farm with his own livestock. A real common sense old Vermonter....not like the new arrival Latte Sipping Liberals.....

He was a true inspiration to me back in the day to continue to strive to be independent/self sufficient.

One of those people you never forget.
 
regardess if the possibilites.....does anbody that still believes in limited Govt think there is another way to stop the growing power of the Federal Govt???

Rudy, McCain, Mitt Romney???? please
 
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