Vet Bringback Nazi Marked K98 Mauser-- Rough!

[Creade]

Good evening!

A client of mine has recently asked me to look into finding a buyer for a K98 vet bring back.

I was hoping to get some opinions on it before I try and figure out how to get rid of it.

I have been asked not to clean it or alter it.

It is very rough. Stock is in sad condition as you can see.
There is rust, tough to tell how bad it will be once cleaned.
The Bore Looks clean.
Multiple Nazi markings.
All numbers match EXCEPT the bolt.
No sling, no cleaning rod, no bayonet.

What kind of value would you put on this rifle?
With the severity of the condition problems, would anyone bother trying to clean it up?

Just trying to decide if its even worth trying to post it, or list it on gunbroker, etc. She is hoping to get 400ish for it.

Let me know what you think!

 

[Creade]

No words of wisdom eh?

 

[soldier147]

In one of the pics, it looks as though the swastika was peened. I'm no expert on these, but I would recommend taking to a gunsmith or someone who can remove all the rust. there might be a chance that the gun is still useful, but have it cleaned up then post some pics with your questions. My 2 cents

 

[marktx]

Just out of curiosity.... Does it have paperwork associated with it? Nothing personal but the gun business is so full of B.S. artists that I find it difficult to believe any claims of heritage about a particular gun. Without paperwork or some way of substantiating it seems like just another beater with a story.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Any idea how a vet bring back came to have a mismatched bolt?

 

[soldier147]

Oh, I was looking around a gunshop a few months ago and ran across a K98 mauser that looked similar, but was converted to 30-06. $189.00 was the price tag, and it had no rust, a good bore and a rough stock. Should have grabbed it when I had the chance.

 

[chemist308]

I paid 200 for mine a couple years ago. I'd guess 300 or so now, but with the new Obama pricing, your client may get up to 400.

That said, if it shoots straight and doesn't have a weak firing pin spring (goes boom when you squeeze the trigger, and not just yank the trigger), I'd say it's a keeper. You can't get a nice thin fixed blade site like the mausers had on a modern rifle anymore, can you?

 

[Creade]

Just out of curiosity.... Does it have paperwork associated with it? Nothing personal but the gun business is so full of B.S. artists that I find it difficult to believe any claims of heritage about a particular gun. Without paperwork or some way of substantiating it seems like just another beater with a story.

Im not sure what paperwork you would be referring to.
I own an estate liquidation business, and come across alot of estates of vets. Many of them have a footlocker in the basement with their uniforms, and gear, and many times they have an old Colt, or some bringbacks packed away in there as well as a bonus . This was the case with this one.

Any idea how a vet bring back came to have a mismatched bolt?

This was actually my first thought as well. I was hoping someone might have some insight.

I started going through scenarios in my head trying to come up with reasons why it would have a mismatched bolt.
As far as I know, Russian captures always had mismatched or force matched bolts, so it did make me start thinking that direction.


I believe I once heard that many german soldiers when surrendering left their bolt in the bag, if this is true, it could explain why a different bolt was put into this rifle. Maybe it was replaced in the field, maybe it was replaced in the states after it was brought back with no bolt, I dont really know.

In one of the pics, it looks as though the swastika was peened. I'm no expert on these, but I would recommend taking to a gunsmith or someone who can remove all the rust. there might be a chance that the gun is still useful, but have it cleaned up then post some pics with your questions. My 2 cents

Unfortunately, the weapon does not belong to me, and it is being sold as a favor to the client I am working for. Putting money into having it cleaned is not currently an option, as I am not making anything on it to start.

The only reason I would clean it, is if I decided to buy it for myself as a project.

 

[Afy]

Pretty much worth as much as any other K 98 in simillar state.

It was manufactured late in the war, so from what little I do know the quality of these weapons was in fact lower than earlier models.
It is still a nice rifle, and can be made pretty very easily.

 

[Ohio Gun Guy]

It has a mis matched bolt because the bolts were removed and the guns piled up uppon capture. It could well be a vet bring back. The russians refinished everything, mismatched the other parts, etc. This gun looks like a solid old matching, except bolt, vet bring back to me. TO bad he didnt oil it.

Some of the rust may come off.

With out the rust I would hazard a guess of 300-400? A russian capture gun currently sells for about 300. If it were clean, rust free, and matching bolt it could go for 1000+ (In my opinion). However its neither. If a collector is there, you might get 400????

 

[Kurush]

It has some late war features like the stamped bands, floorplate and triggerguard but it isn't quite a kriegsmodell. So it's late enough to be somewhat poorly made but not late enough to have much collector interest. Sorry.

 

[Creade]

So it sounds like the general consensus is, that I shouldnt bother purchasing it for myself for a project/plinker, and its going to be tough to find a collector willing to pay the 400$ they want for it.

If I knew how the stock would clean up, Id be more inclined to think about it for myself, the wood just looks so beat!

 

[Storm]

Mismatched bolts are not uncommon for any of the number of reasons listed here, including the fact that armorers didn't really give a hoot about matched bolts "Here Fritz, your rifle is fixed." "Dammit Heinze, the bolt's serial number doesn't match!" Not.

Those eagles/swastikas look intact to me.

 

[amd6547]

It dosn't look near as bad as you described it. Most of the rust will disappear with a good oil wipedown. I do not see evidance of peening.
Different makers marks can add to the value, I am no expert.
You should investigate more. Try posting this on Gunboards k98 mauser forum. There are folks there who actually know what they are talking about.

 

[irishsquid]

Looks like it will clean up well but I wouldn't pay anywhere near $400 for it.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

"armorers didn't really give a hoot about matched bolts

I have to disagree. Germans were VERY careful not to mismatch parts. That's why they were serial numbered. The switch was most likely done AFTER they were surrendered/captured. That would also explain the missing sling,cleaning rod ,sight hood and bayonet.

 

[Storm]

I have to disagree. Germans were VERY careful not to mismatch parts.

Yes, rifles coming out of factories were very carefully matched. The Germans were obsessed with such things. But, in the field this broke down, and bolts with matching serial numbers weren't quite as important. I read a well reseached account on this issue (wish I could remember where) and mismatched bolts were not uncommon as a result of all of that bothersome wear and tear that occurred in battle.

While it is most likely that the bolt switch occured after capture, one cannot assume that to be the case. No matter, a mismatched bolt is a mismatched bolt, and this rifle looks to be consistent with a vet bringback (from what I can see), and, isn't in all that bad of shape.

 

[Cannonball888]

Try to clean it up the rust with Break-Free and BRONZE wool.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

I think this particular rifle is an excellent candidate for restoration as a mil-surp shooter (if headspace is acceptable)or as a sporter. The metal seems to be in very good condition. There MAY/May NOT be minimal/extreme pitting under the wood line but operationally I think it would be fine. A collector it is not in view of the mismatched bolt. That more than it's overall condition would keep it's value down.

 

[Cannonball888]

A collector it is not in view of the mismatched bolt.

It is still a collectable. Most bring-backs have a mismatched bolt because the soldier was required to remove it and throw it in a pile aboard ship. An excellent match numbers rifle less bolt can fetch as much as 600 if not duffle-cut, and all matching can near double that. The OP certainly has something better than a russian mix-master.

 

[jd46561]

You can go to Gunboards.com , this forum ...http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6
These guys are the experts on German weapons.
You will need better picts of the rifle with closeups of markings and bolt.

 

[Trebor]

I agree that you should ask over at the Gunboards forum. They'll have a better idea.

As far as cleaning it, at this point I'd hit it with some oil and solvent soaked patches, just to see how much of the rust comes off that way. That's not going to lower the value any and is milder even then taking some oil soaked 0000 steel wool to the gun.

My personal opinion is that the seller would be hard pressed to get $400 for the gun. I know I wouldn't offer more then $150 or so for the gun in that shape. The guys at Gunboards may have a different opinion though.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

"The OP certainly has something better than a russian mix-master." No doubt about that. It is still intact enough to spark some collector interest but it isnt among the most desirable. The mis-matched bolt doesn't detract from it's history at all or it's useability,just what someone is willing to pay for it. It is however worth more than $150 even in it's poor/fair condition.

 

[Storm]

Having worked on a few Mausers and other older weapons over the past 30 or so years, I think that the rifle has potential, based on what I can see. I would predict that most of that rust will come off with a light brush and oil leaving minimal pitting if any. Of course, we can't see the metal under the wood. the one thing that we also can't see is the bore. What looks clean to one guy is an abomination to another. It's worth more than a Russian Capture which seem to be going in the $225 to $270 range, so for my wallet, depending on what we can't see, and looking at the potential, I'd say $300 to $400, being much more comfortable at $300, but closer to $400 with a good bore and that rust being only lighter surface rust.

 

[ijosef]

Those eagles/swastikas look intact to me.

I think it's peened, although it's hard to tell from the pics. Peening didn't damage the eagle - just the little swastika in the circle beneath it. Just take a punch and whack it with a hammer! Nazi weapons with 100% intact markings are rare and worth a lot more money.

I'd imagine a clean, all-original, matching Mauser with intact markings would be worth $$$$$$$$$$$. I was watching one of the History Channel's many gun specials and they had some dude on there with a late 30's Luger Pistol, everything intact. The thing almost looked like it was new. I can't remember exactly what they said it was worth (I really don't know all the facts and variations on Luger models), but I know it was HUGE money.