Victim Disarmed and Cuffed for his "Safety"

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Ah, I see...
I read that to mean he as in the building, outside his office (in a entryway, etc.)

I may have misinterpreted.

Cuffs for an hour? My gun in your [strike]squad[/strike] patrol car?

Back to the outrage.
 
More Training

ga red clay said:
Because none of THOSE have ever killed an officer.

The thing about this is, just as Arfin Greebly said, none of us were at the scene, none of us actually knew how the whole thing went down. The fact is, this cop, who has more training than most of the people on this board, felt that her safety was in danger so she did what she felt was necessary to make sure that everyone went home safe that night. And guess what? Everybody did!
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And while the officer may have "more training" it still stands that all the officers before her, those answering burglary calls at this same address, have never had this problem.

This business has a history of break-in attempts, Charlie has called the police for this before, he has been armed at those times, and the other officers have never had any issue with this.

It isn't so much a matter of "more training" as it is "more experience."

She's going to have that "more experience" one of these days. I should hope that her application of policies and procedures will have been tempered by judgment obtained through greater field experience.

Me, I'm prepared to cut her a little slack. Still, in Charlie's shoes, I might also seek audience with the mayor to encourage a little "procedural review" quietly, out of the public eye.

If the idea of an armed citizen at the scene still troubles her, perhaps she needs to have a partner along for the ride.

It's probably not healthy to spend your career in law enforcement being spooked by armed citizens.

 
The anti LEO sentiment in that article is pretty impressive, as is the anti-LEO sentiment on this board.
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The sentiment on this board is mixed. There are many posts praising LEOs, suggesting the police be called, etc. In general, I think THR support their local sheriff, so to speak.

But there are lots of points on the anti side as well. You can start of with the common anti-gun position of most police departments, you can continue with the militarization of police forces, and you can add in the lack of respect that many cops have for the law abiding public. And I haven't even mentioned the very visible (perhaps very small) minority to cross the line and do things their chief would not condone, at least in public.
 
This does not sound. (good) Then again the first thing I tell Officer would NOT be "I have a gun"
If I may ASSUME some things. He comes to location finds evidence of forced entry/calls 911, waits for POlice, (ideally wait in your car on cell observing what you can) Have dispatch ID you to Officer. (example last one. (me) "Could you tell the Officer I am in the grey car with parking lights on comming up behind his car?" "What does he want me to do?" Even when I have been unknown they have NEVER asked for my ID. If they want to unlock give them the correct key and let them lead. Unless I know Officer my gun stays holstered. (easy way to check with unknown Officers) "Could I borrow the shotgun?" The response (ok it will always be no) but HOW they say no wil help.
 
This does not sound. (good) Then again the first thing I tell Officer would NOT be "I have a gun"
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I agree. I've had a cop in my home twice (nothing like the incident here) and felt no need to tell them I was armed. We conducted our business and parted ways.
 
In Case You're Wondering

That little piece of thread drift discussing personnel policies?

We're not gonna pursue that.

 
I agree. I've had a cop in my home twice (nothing like the incident here) and felt no need to tell them I was armed. We conducted our business and parted ways.
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The Sheriff in my county fully admits that his younger deputies are nervous around armed civilians and suggests that if you have a gun on you during a traffic stop or home visit that you should disclose that to the officer asap even though NY law doesnt require this. My thought is, if you know your deputies are that gun shy, they obviously need more training or they should find alternate employment.
 
stormcaller111 said:
The Sheriff in my county fully admits that his younger deputies are nervous around armed civilians and suggests that if you have a gun on you during a traffic stop or home visit that you should disclose that to the officer asap even though NY law doesnt require this. My thought is, if you know your deputies are that gun shy, they obviously need more training or they should find alternate employment.
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Disclosure ins't required in FL, but away from home I will let the officer now. In my castle...well, it's my castle.
 
The article lost me when it called the officer
the tax-feeder
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.

Sounds like a guy who just doesn't like cops. Makes the article pretty weak.

Oh BTW cops pay taxes too.

Do you think the guy who wrote the article helps pay his own salary? :neener:
 
larry minn-I'm not sure about Nevada but some states have duty to inform laws that say if you are concealed carrying you have to tell any LEO that you interact with. That is not the case in Georgia & I wouldn't tell anything if not absolutely necessary.
ga red clay-The reason there is what you called anti LEO sentiment is because of LEO's who do things that are wrong. Yes it does happen. I am not saying everyone in Law Enforcement is bad (some are really good people doing their best in a very difficult job) but anyone who cannot see the wrong that does happen is either hopelessly deluded or has their head in the sand.
If I ever find myself in a position like that I would most definitely be filing a complaint at the first possible oppurtunity & making as much noise about it as possible.
 
Small female officers can't rely on physical size and strength to control most men. Force of authority and disparity in firepower are all they have. She did what she needed to do to feel secure in the situation - her own safety is her major concern.
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If she can't do her job without victimizing people (preclusion of duty), she shouldn't be an officer. Fire her for incompetence or give her reasonable duties.

At the behest of legislators that would legislate every aspect of our lives, and with the support of rampant surveillance and profiling, police are put in situations where they are not safe and cannot reasonably be expected to control or protect anything. The obvious solution is to accept the capacity of LEOs and of law enforcement, in general, in a society with basic property/privacy rights, and legislate accordingly, but instead, we expect them to do the impossible, to police every possible danger, and at any cost to our liberty, and ultimately, safety. The inherent contradiction is terrifying.
 
There should be clarified laws about this!!!
It's understandable for LEO's to relinquish the citizen's gun once they have the scene under control (if they feel insecure)
Or even better remove the citizen from the scene "so they can take over"
However, to HANDCUFF A CITIZEN???
 
I'm not a cop but I think I'm pro-leo.

In this case I would submit but I wouldn't stand their alone uncuffed without staying with her or getting into what I believed was a safe zone. Cops have more training but common sense should prevail.

Here's a true story from my personal experience.
  • Idiot kid gets a guns and shoots at a car, black clothes and ski mask, in front of more than a few people.
  • Many calls to Chicago cops.
  • Many cops 10+ show up. Suspect is still loose.
  • I'm being questioned by a cop when another cop is talking to a neighbor who turns on a light.
  • I say turn off the light, it goes off.
  • Cop says turn it on, it goes on.
  • I say turn it off, Cops says it stays on.
  • I loudly tell the cop I'm talking to that I'm moving away from the light. If he wants to stand there like a sitting duck and take a round that's his problem.
  • LIGHT GOES OFF.

Not saying anything is wrong and I would rip her in person and to her commander. To me that's pro-LE. If she thinks this is scary what's she gonna do when SHTF and who's gonna get hurt then? I have cops in my family that I care about.
 
The author of the article in the original post displayed their prejudice against LEO's by calling the officer a 'tax feeder'. Lost me at that point.
 
The fact is, this cop, who has more training than most of the people on this board, felt that her safety was in danger so she did what she felt was necessary to make sure that everyone went home safe that night. And guess what? Everybody did!
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This is just silly, and definitely worthy of a brand new member who's already saying he's going to take his toys and go home. Many of the members here have extensive training and practice that would put many officers to shame. It may not put an FBI HRT officer to shame, but would easily exceed the training and experience of an officer who only passed their required qualifications and is not otherwise a dedicated long-time recreational or competitive shooter, or at the least someone who takes additional training courses on their own dime. This is not bubba central. Many of us are mature and intelligent individuals who put a lot of time and effort into being capable, skilled, law-abiding and responsible citizens with shooting skills.

I guess the main question that I don't see as having been answered is whether the officer took appropriate steps for the business owner's safety. If she did, then her actions may be a nuisance, a bit silly and an overreaction, but not unlawful. If she left him unarmed and in danger as has been alleged (but not clearly demonstrated), that would be grounds for her departure from the world of law enforcement, in my view.
 
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the first thing you do is make the scene safe for you then you can make it safe for others.
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Or the old, "if we don't take care of ourselves, who will take care of the citizens?"

Or "some animals are more equal than others".

Its simple. She needs a new line of work.
 
Original Article

The author of the article in the original post displayed their prejudice against LEO's by calling the officer a 'tax feeder'. Lost me at that point.
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That wasn't the only article. The author in that instance is an anti-tax activist, if memory serves.

There were other articles, like the one in the Las Vegas Review Journal.

I know it's a lot like work, but it is actually possible to do a little of your own research on these things when they pop up. That's how I found out what I did about the guy's business. That's how I found his pictures. That's how I found out exactly where in town the crime scene was.

The fact that the OP's article selection was written by someone with libertarian biases doesn't negate that the incident left something to be desired.

 
Many of the members here have extensive training and practice

all that training was there a chance of anyone shooting back? thats the only experience that really counts
 
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