(Video) First USPSA Match (Tips Please)

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Corpral_Agarn

Corpral_Agarn

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Hi All,

As some of you know, I shot a Fun Match with my SAA clone last week that was 'USPSA Style'.
This week, I decided to head out for the real USPSA match for the first time
shooting my beloved Sig P226 Stainless in 40S&W.

I have been shooting a little bit of IDPA lately and this USPSA stuff is a completely different game!

The number one thing I need to do for USPSA is reload in between shooting positions but if you have any other tips, I am all ears!

Thanks and hope you enjoy:
[YOUTUBE]7n8Ji03No3k[/YOUTUBE]
 
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Welcome to a great game! Other than planning reloads to avoid standing ones, you'll start to learn to move with a little more determination. If you're moving, move! If you haven't already read it, Ben Stoeger's Practical Pistol: Fundamental Techniques is really excellent.
 
The number one thing I need to do for USPSA is reload in between shooting positions but if you have any other tips, I am all ears!
Click to expand...

You get to actually PLAN your reload instead of being told when, where, this, and that...


I normally shoot USPSA... My last match was IDPA.
[side note: the club offers a non-compete class for guns that dont fit the box, etc.]

sooooo I shoot finish and I show clear, etc.

RO asks "what division I am shooting"..
Me: CDP. duh you see this awesome 1911 dont ya :evil: (not really on the last part)
RO: "Are sure not compete?"
Me: Yep
RO: "3 Procedurals for your mag changes"
Me: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
First thing I would have you do is fix that semi weaver thing you have going on. I'll check out the rest of the video later and offer some comments. Just snuck a peek while at work for 5 seconds.


edit: definitely plan your reloads out ahead of time. A standing reload affects your score just as bad as a miss on target. You should be topped off with a full mag when you arrive at each position and should almost never have to go to slide lock.

Get the gun up and eyes on the sights 2-3 steps before you actually arrive at a position. You are arriving, looking for the target, then bringing the gun up in an arc from a low ready position. It would be better to have the gun up and your grip built before you clear the next wall so that as soon as you see the next target you can shoot it without the delay of having to raise your gun.

Make sure you are getting two sight pictures for each shot. Some of the shots looked like you got one sight picture and then just whacked on the trigger twice, without aiming in between. Other times it looked like you were more controlled.

Looks like you are on a good path. With a little bit of cleaning up of your technique you should do well.
 
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waktasz said:
First thing I would have you do is fix that semi weaver thing you have going on.
Click to expand...

Not going to lie, my mind clamped shut after reading this sentence. It seriously colored the rest of your post. I had to force myself to re-read your entire post and take as much away from it as I could with an open mind.

Now that I have put the effort into keeping an open mind, I really hope that you have something for me.

I know that I am new to this sport, but before I fix it, I propose that you explain to this cross eye dominant guy (left eyed, right handed) what exactly is wrong with it and how you think it affects my shooting ability.

I shot mostly A's all day (one stage had two C's, one stage had all A's and one Mike-explained in the video). I messed up on the last real stage, but that had nothing to do with my stance or type of hold. That was trigger control, sight picture, and feeling too big for my britches. I placed middle of the pack overall and 2nd or third in my division. I can shoot a frying pan at 240yrds with that same hold, same gun.

Also, you are the first (only) person to ever take issue with my "semi weaver" hold.

Phew! Okay, lets hear it!

The rest of your post makes sense and is helpful. On a few shots, I am just pulling the trigger and using 'instinct'. Those are probably the C's and the one Mike. I chalked that up to going too fast and feeling like hot stuff.
 
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ATLDave said:
Welcome to a great game! Other than planning reloads to avoid standing ones, you'll start to learn to move with a little more determination. If you're moving, move! If you haven't already read it, Ben Stoeger's Practical Pistol: Fundamental Techniques is really excellent.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I can move much faster than that, good reminder. I was trying to move quickly but not "hot dog" it. I kinda figured that first time out, if you are hot doggin' it, you are gonna look foolish.

Move quickly and make a mistake, no biggy.
Hot dog it and make a mistake, look stupid.

Next time!
 
Ultimately I think your recoil control will be better with a more modern grip technique. There's a reason no one holds their gun that way anymore.

As for eye dominance. Hold the gun in front of your face with both arms nearly straight (you want some elbow bend, not fully locked out) and just move the gun left a bit in front of your left eye. It's not that big of a deal.
 
tarosean said:
You get to actually PLAN your reload instead of being told when, where, this, and that...


I normally shoot USPSA... My last match was IDPA.
[side note: the club offers a non-compete class for guns that dont fit the box, etc.]

sooooo I shoot finish and I show clear, etc.

RO asks "what division I am shooting"..
Me: CDP. duh you see this awesome 1911 dont ya :evil: (not really on the last part)
RO: "Are sure not compete?"
Me: Yep
RO: "3 Procedurals for your mag changes"
Me: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...
LOL, there is a guy that shoots with us that does compete in both games.

Every once in a while he will drop a partially loaded mag in IDPA.

Even from behind the line, you can hear "dag gunnit" and other mumblings of a more profane nature.

The rest of us just smile and hope that that means our chances for placing higher just improved :D
 
What waktaz said... lots of good suggestions.

Single biggest thing you need to correct right away in my opinion (2n'ed) is your grip/upper body position. The "strong arm straight/locked/ and weak arm heavily bent" approach might work great for Jack Bauer, but it is going to limit the amount of control you have over the gun and thus will limit how fast you can recover a good sight picture and shoot again. Hard to see in the video, but you want to make sure your weak hand grip is well established.. heel if your hand making good contact with the backstrap, thumb under your strong hand thumb, both thumbs pretty much pointed down range, and your weak hand fingers interlocked on top of your strong hand fingers on the front strap. All knuckes pretty much making a straight line down the front strap, and gripping down pretty hard to control recoil.

Elbows should be pretty much equally bent slightly, and should make a pretty symmetric triangle between your shoulders and the gun, assuming you are shooting from a neutral stance (not an odd position, etc).

Looks like you are off to a pretty good start though.
 
To add fuel to the fire, you coulda', shoulda' keep your gun up higher during reloads.
It's easier to still see both the gun and the targets.
And faster to get back on target after.
 
waktasz said:
Ultimately I think your recoil control will be better with a more modern grip technique.
Click to expand...

This is a good reason. Thanks for providing it.

waktasz said:
As for eye dominance. Hold the gun in front of your face with both arms nearly straight (you want some elbow bend, not fully locked out) and just move the gun left a bit in front of your left eye. It's not that big of a deal.
Click to expand...

If you say it's not a big deal, then I guess its not. I can honestly say that on a stage, I am not immediately aware of how I am shooting. I am just focusing on my target, trying to make sure each shot is its own. Without the video I could not tell you how/what I was doing.

I will look into adjusting this. I never knew it was such a problem/would hold me back.
 
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ny32182 said:
What waktaz said... lots of good suggestions.

Single biggest thing you need to correct right away in my opinion (2n'ed) is your grip/upper body position. The "strong arm straight/locked/ and weak arm heavily bent" approach might work great for Jack Bauer, but it is going to limit the amount of control you have over the gun and thus will limit how fast you can recover a good sight picture and shoot again. Hard to see in the video, but you want to make sure your weak hand grip is well established.. heel if your hand making good contact with the backstrap, thumb under your strong hand thumb, both thumbs pretty much pointed down range, and your weak hand fingers interlocked on top of your strong hand fingers on the front strap. All knuckes pretty much making a straight line down the front strap, and gripping down pretty hard to control recoil.
Click to expand...

I had to look up who Jack Bauer was. Apparently, he is a fictional TV character. Ouch. I wonder if other people who see me think I don't know what I am doing as well.
How you described holding the gun with the strong and weak hand is how I thought i was doing it, but I am finding out more incorrect about my shooting technique than I anticipated. I am not sure anymore. I will have to get a closer video next time of my weak hand while shooting.

ny32182 said:
Elbows should be pretty much equally bent slightly, and should make a pretty symmetric triangle between your shoulders and the gun, assuming you are shooting from a neutral stance (not an odd position, etc).
Click to expand...

Tried this yesterday at home (dry fire) and it feels weird but I will check into it more.

ny32182 said:
Looks like you are off to a pretty good start though.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
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ny32182 said:
Heh..

Here is some guy attempting that neutral grip thing:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/9t1q3r6nxgpowoa/11239615_832823896767249_1407324798671661672_o.jpg

One of the very best pistol shooters in the entire world, Dave Sevigny, is cross dominant. He just basically moves his head over and inch. It is really not a big deal with pistols.
Click to expand...

That's what I keep hearing.

Thanks for the photo. It is good to see what you all are talking about. I did a google image search for USPSA and saw more like that.

Thanks again for bringing it to my attention.
 
Jack Bauer of course being the guy from 24 (great show) and he way over-exaggerates it, but this is what we are talking about:

latest?cb=20140502045236.jpg

I tried to find a good angle on Sevigny's upper body arrangement that shows what he's doing with his head to account for the cross dominance, but came up empty... but here is a good side view:

10431551_1043677348994610_3522334548524808971_n.jpg
 
I am finding out more incorrect about my shooting technique than I anticipated.
Click to expand...

This is entirely normal. it happens to most shooters who start taking their shooting and technique more seriously and start asking for advice/taking instruction. the more you hang around with "more than casual" shooters the more likely you'll find things that you had no idea you were doing in a manner that is less than optimal.

Don't sweat any of it, just take the advice you're offered and see what works for you and what doesn't.
 
Detritus said:
This is entirely normal. it happens to most shooters who start taking their shooting and technique more seriously and start asking for advice/taking instruction. the more you hang around with "more than casual" shooters the more likely you'll find things that you had no idea you were doing in a manner that is less than optimal.

Don't sweat any of it, just take the advice you're offered and see what works for you and what doesn't.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I guess you are right.
I have never received instruction before (aside from Dad, when I was younger) and hadn't really asked for critique until now. I had anticipated the comments to be more focused on aspects of the game, not necessarily my shooting technique. I suppose that I got more than I thought I was going to. The way I was reading some of the comments kicked off a pride influenced response. Had to remind myself to forever be the student.

I am one of the better shooters in the IDPA matches I shoot and get a lot of props for shooting fairly well despite being new to the games. But that just means that my shooting community is small (bigger fish in a smaller pond). When you ask for tips on the net, that community is comprised of anyone, top shooters included, and the community gets bigger (the pond becomes an ocean).

I have been playing around with the suggestions in this thread and will try them out next match. (which is Monday, I think).

Thanks all for the responses, it is appreciated.
 
You are going to be picking up little things to add to your technique pretty much forever. I still change things from time to time, even though the changes are smaller in scale than what you are seeing when starting out.
 
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Corpral_Agarn said:
Also, you are the first (only) person to ever take issue with my "semi weaver" hold.

Ouch. I wonder if other people who see me think I don't know what I am doing as well.
Click to expand...
I noticed it when I saw you shooting, but didn't mention it because:
1. I wasn't on your squad and didn't watch you shoot the whole match; thought maybe you had tweaked your normal style to accommodate the platform
2. What good would it do in the middle of a match; it isn't really a good time to change.
3. Many Weaver shooters get defensive when it is pointed out that they are using a less than optimal technique.

I am one of the better shooters in the IDPA matches I shoot and get a lot of props for shooting fairly well despite being new to the games.
Click to expand...
IDPA is much less a speed game than USPSA. Less optimal techniques can get you by, because you don't have to push the envelope as much.

The limitations of the Weaver style isn't accuracy...you could shoot just as accurately using the cup-n-saucer hold...but the speed of followup shots. It has to do with working against the gun as opposed to letting it work for you.

But that just means that my shooting community is small (bigger fish in a smaller pond).
Click to expand...
You should come to SacValley to shoot our monthly IDPA matches (usually 120 shooters; 8 stages)
 
9mmepiphany said:
3. Many Weaver shooters get defensive when it is pointed out that they are using a less than optimal technique.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I would expect that from most shooters using any technique if not approached with care/skill.

When giving out any advice, people that want to be effective and actually help the person get better need to be aware of how such suggestions are phrased and how it comes across. If they don't care about being heard by the person, then perhaps they should not be giving advice (a waste of time for both parties).
Now, it is true that the person receiving the advise must be in the correct mindset as well (humble, open minded), but the adviser/teacher can help them achieve the correct mindset with their choice of words/phrasing/mannerisms. It is, in part, about the presentation of information.

9mmepiphany said:
You should come to SacValley to shoot our monthly IDPA matches (usually 120 shooters; 8 stages)
Click to expand...

I am game. I will have to see if we are working cattle that weekend, but I will try to make it down if I can. Sounds like a good time.
 
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