Vortex SPARC Red Dot Scope

[Warp]

I don't currently own any RDS.

I do have a rifle I'd like to put one on, but if I do I'll wait until I can afford another Aimpoint. For now it has irons. If I do that I'll buy a Primary Arms red dot to put on my .22lr trainer version of the rifle though. That's where inexpensive optics shine, IMO. Not on defensive rifles.

 

[fallout mike]

So we both debated a discussion and neither of us had a dog in the fight. Haha. I've got an excuse though. Ive been laying on a table at physical therapy for 3&1/2 hours now bored out of my frickin mind.

 

[Skylerbone]

My Vortex Fury binos served me well in Alberta during sub-zero weather, never fogging or stiffening up. In fact my guide compared their optical quality at dusk one day to his $1,600 Leicas at about 8X the price.

If its a defensive rifle I'm not sure how much time it should spend in a bag as opposed to being ready for action but I do keep mine stored that way with two pistols at the ready to get me across the room to the rifle. I've had my StrikeFire for about 2 years now on the same battery with a fair amount of range time. I've had the SPARC since November IIRC and neither has ever been damaged or found on while in storage. If it were, I've almost never had occasion to use more than the minimum brightness setting so I'll still have more than 3 months on a fresh battery to discover my error even if the 6-hour limiter fails to turn the optic off.

If the Vortex dies a pitiful death I'll simply send it in for free, no questions asked. Aimpoint's consumer warranty is 10 years, 2 years for professional or "similar to professional" use. So all diehard users take note: you'll have 2 years of coverage or you'll be lying to get your Aimpoint fixed. That or you'll be out a hefty sum everytime it fails.

Is the Aimpoint far and away more rugged? Do I expect to test those limits with my usage? I can't answer those questions. Heck, I'm not even a member of afrcom. This discussion is beginning to remind me of the "Chart" that would have everyone believe (through interpretation) that no "tier 2" AR could spit out more than a few boxes of ammo without falling apart. When hoards come along to report positive ownership the response is a universal didn't run it hard or the famous sample of one.

I'm so tempted to start torturing my SPARC to test its limits but it should not fall to Vortex to pay for such foolishness, they have their own test procedures.

 

[Warp]

My Vortex Fury binos served me well in Alberta during sub-zero weather, never fogging or stiffening up. In fact my guide compared their optical quality at dusk one day to his $1,600 Leicas at about 8X the price.

If its a defensive rifle I'm not sure how much time it should spend in a bag as opposed to being ready for action but I do keep mine stored that way with two pistols at the ready to get me across the room to the rifle. I've had my StrikeFire for about 2 years now on the same battery with a fair amount of range time. I've had the SPARC since November IIRC and neither has ever been damaged or found on while in storage. If it were, I've almost never had occasion to use more than the minimum brightness setting so I'll still have more than 3 months on a fresh battery to discover my error even if the 6-hour limiter fails to turn the optic off.

If the Vortex dies a pitiful death I'll simply send it in for free, no questions asked. Aimpoint's consumer warranty is 10 years, 2 years for professional or "similar to professional" use. So all diehard users take note: you'll have 2 years of coverage or you'll be lying to get your Aimpoint fixed. That or you'll be out a hefty sum everytime it fails.

Is the Aimpoint far and away more rugged? Do I expect to test those limits with my usage? I can't answer those questions. Heck, I'm not even a member of afrcom. This discussion is beginning to remind me of the "Chart" that would have everyone believe (through interpretation) that no "tier 2" AR could spit out more than a few boxes of ammo without falling apart. When hoards come along to report positive ownership the response is a universal didn't run it hard or the famous sample of one.

I'm so tempted to start torturing my SPARC to test its limits but it should not fall to Vortex to pay for such foolishness, they have their own test procedures.

You have a pretty creative interpretation. I might call it a straw man fallacy, myself.

 

[Skylerbone]

Call it what you will, or read through the archives. Start a thread and ask if a Bushmaster, a Rock River or a Stag is any good. You'll hear about mil spec and castle nuts and MPI and commercial buffers. A dozen owners will chime in with real-world experience and be shouted down.

Insinuating that one product is better than the other when you own neither implies your frame of reference is...Internet based? If the best argument someone can find is the battery won't last 3 years like an Aimpoint perhaps we should exclude the PA, JPoint, Eotech, Ultradot, Doctor, Bushnell and Meprolite sights from consideration as well.

Straw man or no, there simply is no hard data on most of the assertions you've made. Some call that a hypothesis, others call it a WAG. My opinion is merely based on experience with one of the optics in question and its particular manufacturer. I am co-witnessed on my AR so it is no more a peril to me if the RDS fails than to you shooting BUIS until you've saved your money for the only optic you deem worthy of defensive use. Well, that or an ACOG. How's your ACOG holding up? You see how ribbing works?

I make no claim that Vortex are the best optics available. I have scopes costing 4X the price of a SPARC and others that cost me $50 decades ago that still shoot true. Having experience with those several dozen there are a some I would recommend and some I would not. The SPARC is an easy recommendation based on my experience.

 

[b7tac]

I looked hard at the Sparc, but ultimately went with the Aimpoint PRO. That being said, my shooting buddy just bought one and I shot through it the other day. It was solid - not as robust as the Aimpoint - but solid nonetheless. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I didn't have the finds for an Aimpoint or EOTech

 

[Warp]

Call it what you will, or read through the archives. Start a thread and ask if a Bushmaster, a Rock River or a Stag is any good. You'll hear about mil spec and castle nuts and MPI and commercial buffers.

I would hope that you would hear facts about the quality of the materials used.

Insinuating that one product is better than the other when you own neither implies your frame of reference is...Internet based?

Those of us who spend a decent bit of time at the range get a lot of second hand experience.

And don't forget, not currently owning something doesn't mean it hasn't been owned in the past.

If the best argument someone can find is the battery won't last 3 years like an Aimpoint perhaps we should exclude the PA, JPoint, Eotech, Ultradot, Doctor, Bushnell and Meprolite sights from consideration as well.

That is but one aspect of what makes the Aimpoints superior. And, yes ,that is an advantage Aimpoint has over all of the ones listed. You never have to remember to turn it on or remember to turn it off.

Straw man or no, there simply is no hard data on most of the assertions you've made. Some call that a hypothesis, others call it a WAG. My opinion is merely based on experience with one of the optics in question and its particular manufacturer. I am co-witnessed on my AR so it is no more a peril to me if the RDS fails than to you shooting BUIS until you've saved your money for the only optic you deem worthy of defensive use. Well, that or an ACOG. How's your ACOG holding up? You see how ribbing works?

ACOG? What are you talking about??

ACOGs are pretty tough and held up quite well, last I checked, though.

I make no claim that Vortex are the best optics available. I have scopes costing 4X the price of a SPARC and others that cost me $50 decades ago that still shoot true. Having experience with those several dozen there are a some I would recommend and some I would not. The SPARC is an easy recommendation based on my experience.

So do I.

But I don't kid myself and pretend the $40 scope is as well made, reliable, durable, or rugged simply because I haven't broken it yet by taking it to and from the range.

 

[Skylerbone]

I would hope that you would hear facts about the quality of the materials used.

If facts about quality of material include "Brand X doesn't coat the barrel under the front sight post" or "Brand X batch MPI tests barrels" then I suppose those are facts. What brings ire to the guys who post them are real world experience.

Those of us who spend a decent bit of time at the range get a lot of second hand experience.

And don't forget, not currently owning something doesn't mean it hasn't been owned in the past.

Yes, I shot my mandatory 1/2 box (of 20) WWBs this year. So, which model ACOG, Vortex and Aimpoint did you have?

You never have to remember to turn it on or remember to turn it off.

So an Aimpoint NEVER needs batteries? But one aspect that makes it superior...care to list all the rest?

If you are after some magnification you can get a magnifier, get an ACOG, or go for one of the quality (expensive) variable power scopes with illuminated reticle.

That's what I'm talking about. Do you have you or are you merely repeating?

But I don't kid myself and pretend the $40 scope is as well made, reliable, durable, or rugged simply because I haven't broken it yet by taking it to and from the range.

Inferring (as I claimed in my "straw man" argument people do) that I'm the type that hugs benches and polishes bluing till the wee hours, afraid to run my equipment hard like the LaRolteske crowd. Thanks for the gimme, are you the straw man? I've been hunting the last 32 years of my life. I've broken stuff. I've killed stuff. I've damn near frozen to death in the middle of nowhere more than once in pursuit of what I love doing. Your inferences about me number nearly as many as those about the optics in question. Always inference, you "know", you "may have owned" and other like statements aren't facts. My original "straw man argument" was an analogy, being seen to fruition as we type.

 

[Warp]

So, which model ACOG, Vortex and Aimpoint did you have?

Aimpoint PRO

So an Aimpoint NEVER needs batteries?

Straw men...straw men everywhere!

That's what I'm talking about. Do you have you or are you merely repeating?

Do you disagree with my statement that ACOGs are tough and durable?

Inferring (as I claimed in my "straw man" argument people do) that I'm the type that hugs benches and polishes bluing till the wee hours, afraid to run my equipment hard like the LaRolteske crowd. Thanks for the gimme, are you the straw man? I've been hunting the last 32 years of my life. I've broken stuff. I've killed stuff. I've damn near frozen to death in the middle of nowhere more than once in pursuit of what I love doing. Your inferences about me number nearly as many as those about the optics in question. Always inference, you "know", you "may have owned" and other like statements aren't facts. My original "straw man argument" was an analogy, being seen to fruition as we type.

Not inferring anything. Well, I wasn't.

It seems you are though.

I am specifically referring to a $40 scope I have, that I have had for at least 5-6 years, that has done everything I wanted it to do, and I think it will continue to do so. But I don't think it's tough, durable, etc.

 

[Skylerbone]

I can see this is going nowhere. I ask a question you respond straw man. I ask for your experience you respond straw man. I ask about your ACOG experience because you mentioned them, you respond with a question. You mention all the time you spend at the range and the second hand knowledge that provides you with then claim to not infer anything.

I have given my assessment of the SPARC according to my first hand experience. I am far from world's poorest man but if I had any reservations about this RDS I most certainly would not have spent $160 on it to begin with. If it should ever fail me in any way, Vortex stands behind their product. I will therefore state that I am confident the SPARC is and will continue to be more than rugged enough for hard use. In the unlikely event it fails, I'll send it in and get a free replacement. Forever.

 

[Warp]

I can see this is going nowhere. I ask a question you respond straw man. I ask for your experience you respond straw man. I ask about your ACOG experience because you mentioned them, you respond with a question. You mention all the time you spend at the range and the second hand knowledge that provides you with then claim to not infer anything.

I have given my assessment of the SPARC according to my first hand experience. I am far from world's poorest man but if I had any reservations about this RDS I most certainly would not have spent $160 on it to begin with. If it should ever fail me in any way, Vortex stands behind their product. I will therefore state that I am confident the SPARC is and will continue to be more than rugged enough for hard use. In the unlikely event it fails, I'll send it in and get a free replacement. Forever.

I said you don't have to remember to turn an Aimpoint on or off, you responded with a smart alec remark about "So an Aimpoint NEVER needs batteries?"

That is an strawman.

You do not need to remember to turn an Aimpoint on or off. Yes, you will need to remember to put a new battery in it once every couple or few years or so. But you won't need to remember to turn it on or off, and putting a new battery in about once every 2-4 years (depending on model and setting you leave it on 24/7/365) seems pretty easy to do to me..

I am glad the Sparc is treating you well. Hopefully it continues to do so. It probably will.

Don't blame me because you don't like the answers to the questions I ask. The answer you were probably looking for is that, no, you do no disagree with my statement that ACOGs are durable.

 

[bomberbill357]

OK, so back to the question. I have a SPARC I bought used. It's a good sight. You get what you pay for. The only problems I have with it is the on/off switch is positioned so that when it's in the rifle case it has a tendency to activate. In dim light at higher settings the ded dot has a tendency to starburst. It's night vision capable so when using it with night vision I guess that will go away. THe other thing I don't like is the on/off switch housing is overly bulky and interferes with the scope disappearing when I shoot with both eyes open. I think the ITS rds might be better in this regards at approximately the same price.
I also own an Aimpoint M2 (which I bought to go to Iraq in 2005) a T-1, an EoTec xps 2-2 and a Leupold CQ/T. For me the T-1 is the schznit but all of them are good and all are on rifles I would not hesitate to grab in an emergency.

 

[Skylerbone]

I make no statements as to the durability of products I have not tested. That is beyond my ability to know beyond reputation. It may help steer decisions on buying, as the SPARC's reputation did for me but reputation should never be confused with fact.

Inference:

If the scope loses its zero between the range and the shot at the deer, you don't risk dying as a result.

cheap optics are not as reliable, durable, rugged, or dependable. That's just the way it is.

I would link to M4C, but too many people don't like the kind of quality M4C members expect out of their gear.

I'm not simply saying "the best or nothing". I am saying that, in this particular area, there is only one that has truly proven itself to be of a higher level of reliability and dependability.

ACOGs are pretty tough and held up quite well, last I checked, though.

When responding to my statement that my assessments are made from personal experience your response was:

So do I.

Though you do not claim to have ever owned an ACOG (or a Vortex). I can agree more or less that spending more money ought to and generally will afford the purchaser a better product when compared to less expensive ones but it cannot be guaranteed and I would never shun an entire market segment I had never used. At some point everyone is the new guy be it Noveske or LaRue or LMT. I'd hate to be the guy that bad mouthed them because I owned a Colt. So, barring evidence to the contrary, I stand by my previous statements as to the usability and durability of the SPARC. We have digressed into a ping pong game and wasted far too many words for having accomplished nothing. You will continue to claim that Vortex is inferior despite having multiple opportunities to state your personal experiences with Vortex of which you have offered none. Both of these sights are devices subject to failure like any other and as such both will at some point fail. There is no, and by that I mean zero, evidence presented in this thread supporting the notion that one will outlive the other. There stands however the fact that 20 years from now, long after one's warranty has expired, that the other will be unconditionally guaranteed and freely replaced.

 

[Warp]

There is no, and by that I mean zero, evidence presented in this thread supporting the notion that one will outlive the other.

As long as you don't consider the battery being dead when you need it as a factor, of course.

 

[Skylerbone]

Warp, you sure don't hear what you don't want to hear. I have no answer for those persons incapable of using a switch. The SPARC has an auto shut off which means even if one cannot remember to store it without leaning something against the power switch they'll still have plenty of battery life left.

If battery life is so crucial an element for defense minded gear I'd better trash my SureFire for my daughter's $6 pink Rayovac whose batteries are both cheaper and last more than an hour.

 

[Warp]

If battery life is so crucial an element for defense minded gear I'd better trash my SureFire for my daughter's $6 pink Rayovac whose batteries are both cheaper and last more than an hour.

Logic...not even once.

I mean, what can I saw to that? Obviously the $6 pink 'Rayovac' weaponlight will do everything the Surefire does AND the batteries will last longer.

lol

 

[Skylerbone]

Your logic...not mine.

Obviously the $400 'Aimpoint' red dot will do everything the Vortex does AND the battery will last longer.

I guess in your world logic means any argument that serves your purpose makes sense but if you don't like the product then the argument has no merit. When it served your purpose, battery life, and I quote:

That is but one aspect of what makes the Aimpoints superior. And, yes ,that is an advantage

So the same advantage and superiority should hold true with a flashlight's battery life, yes? Or are we going way back to your version of logic that told fallout mike:

I didn't realize that spending $200 more on an optic was as large of a financial burden as spending $20,000 more on a vehicle. My bad.

Clearly we can speculate errr deduce that the most expensive product is superior...unless the product is a BMW 5 Series being compared to a Camry. Yeah, that's logic.

 

[Warp]

Your logic...not mine.

Obviously the $400 'Aimpoint' red dot will do everything the Vortex does AND the battery will last longer.

I guess in your world logic means any argument that serves your purpose makes sense but if you don't like the product then the argument has no merit. When it served your purpose, battery life, and I quote:



So the same advantage and superiority should hold true with a flashlight's battery life, yes? Or are we going way back to your version of logic that told fallout mike:



Clearly we can speculate errr deduce that the most expensive product is superior...unless the product is a BMW 5 Series being compared to a Camry. Yeah, that's logic.

I didn't realize you honestly and truly believed the $6 pink rayovac would do everything the Surefire weaponlight does.

 

[Skylerbone]

Compact, lightweight, tube style miniature weapons mounted red dot sight using coated glass lenses and mechanical windage/elevation dials to adjust for zero. It is I who did not realize you honestly and truly don't believe the $200 SPARC can do everything the Aimpoint does.

Clearly I'm the fool for arguing with one. Thanks for the facts and figures Warp, they prove without a doubt the many ways in which the Aimpoint you do not own is superior to the Vortex you may (or may not) have second-hand knowledge of. You stick it out for the last word now, I'll just move on.

 

[Warp]

It is I who did not realize you honestly and truly don't believe the $200 SPARC can do everything the Aimpoint does.

You can turn the SPARC on and for the next 3+ years it will be on and ready whenever you need it?

Pretty sure you have said precisely the opposite in this thread. Pretty sure Vortex says precisely the opposite, and it's their product, they should know. Pretty sure the owners say precisely the opposite.

Pretty sure you are wrong.

 

[Litefoot]

Take a hard look at the Lucid HD7 against the more expensive red dots. You can thank me later after you post pics of your wise choice.