VPCs Tom Diaz doesn't think cops should have rifles...

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jsalcedo

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Bad guys still have firepower edge on some copsAlmost a decade after one of the most notorious cop shootings in law enforcement history, police in some South Florida departments are still outgunned by criminals.BY WANDA J. DeMARZOMiami HeraldFeb. 28, 1997, is a day most cops won't ever forget.
Two bank robbers wearing body armor and brandishing automatic weapons turned a quiet San Fernando Valley neighborhood into a bloody ambush.
North Hollywood, Calif., police officers were outgunned and forced to scramble for cover amid relentless gunfire. A quick-thinking sergeant commandeered nine rifles from a neighborhood gun store to end the melee, but when it was over, 11 police officers and six civilians had been wounded.
After that notorious shootout, a growing number of police departments across the country began issuing semi automatic weapons and body armor to their officers.

While a large number of agencies in South Florida -- Hialeah, Pembroke Pines, Hallandale Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Coral Springs, Boca Raton and the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office -- allow their road patrol officers to carry high-powered rifles, others -- the Broward Sheriff's Office and the Hollywood, Miami-Dade and the City of Miami police departments -- have not yet armed all their officers with rifles.
Officers point out that criminals can easily buy high-powered weapons, both on the street and on the Internet. And recent crimes have raised concerns among police about their inability to protect themselves and the public from criminals who carry more firepower than they do.

Most of the handguns officers carry, including BSO, have an effective range of 25 yards, while a high-powered rifle, like an AR-15 that can be equipped with 40-round clips has an effective range of 300 to 500 yards depending on the barrel length and scope.
Deputies point to Ralston Davis as an example of the potential danger police can face when they aren't adequately armed.
Davis, accused of killing three people, sent officers a chilling message when he was arrested Dec. 2 with a knock-off version of the high-powered AR-15 rifle:
''Hand me my [rifle] and a bullet, and I will kill you all,'' Davis told BSO deputies. ``Stand in front of me, and I'll put a bullet in your face.''
Deputies said that if Davis hadn't run out of ammunition, he could have easily picked them off before they could take him out with their handguns, .45-caliber Glocks.

''The North Hollywood shooting showed the reason why cops should be armed with high-powered rifles,'' said Hialeah Deputy Chief Mark Overton. ``That shootout was a nightmare. Officers were pinned down and being shot through their Kevlar vests.''
Not only local law enforcement officers see the need for high-powered weapons.

SEEN AS A NECESSITY
Federal agencies, like the Drug Enforcement Administration, have been outfitting their personnel with high-powered rifles for a number of years. It's a necessity, DEA agents say, because the drug dealers they pursue have the money to spend on high-priced weapons to protect their product.

And agencies around Broward are arresting drug dealers outfitted with high-powered weapons.
''We're taking AK-47s off drug dealers,'' said Fort Lauderdale police range master Jim Decker, a former officer. ``Whatever [weapon] is out there, they're buying it.''
The AK-47 (for Avtomat Kalashnikova 1947) is a ubiquitous assault rifle that can be equipped with 30- or 40-round clips or a 75-round drum. The ammo can be easily purchased on the Internet.
''My second day on the road, I was getting shot at with a high-powered weapon, and I couldn't shoot back with my handgun,'' Decker said. ``And, what's worse, the bad guys are training themselves so they can shoot better.''
One survey, Decker said, showed that 79 percent of the people who killed officers practiced at the range at least once a month.
''They have them [rifles] and they know how to use them,'' he said.

The National Association of Police Organizations, based in Washington, D.C., supports arming officers with high-powered rifles, saying the weapons are a tool, rarely used, but absolutely vital for the well-being of the public and for law enforcement.
'Whether the rifle is carried in the trunk of the patrol car or in the front seat, like gas masks and helmets, it's better for the officers' safety and the public safety that it's available should it be needed,'' NAPO director Bill Johnson said.

KNEE-JERK REACTION?
But some experts say arming officers with rifles is a knee-jerk reaction.
''Because the bad guys have assault rifles, law enforcement officers should?'' asks Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst for the Violence Policy Center, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit organization that advocates gun control.
``I don't see the rationale behind that type of thinking. What's next? Cops in armored cars and tanks? This is moving toward the militarization of law enforcement.''

That same thinking is why some departments balk at arming their officers with assault rifles.
''Departments have to make sure they don't have a weapon that is offensive to civilians or looks too militaristic,'' said Miami-Dade range master and firearms instructor Sgt. Steve Mesa. ``People don't want their patrol officers looking like they are in a specialized unit, like SWAT.'' But it can take a SWAT team 45 minutes to an hour to respond to a scene, a long time for an officer to wait while dodging bullets that can slice through Kevlar vests like a steak knife through butter.
Law enforcement is an evolutionary process, said former DEA agent Richard Mangan, who teaches criminology and criminal justice at Florida Atlantic University.
''I remember when bulletproof vests were something you only wore when making an arrest,'' Mangan said.
``Now officers wear them all the time. If the bad guys arm themselves with rifles, then officers arm themselves with rifles.''
Herald staff writer David Ovalle contributed to this report.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/nation/13442565.htm
 
thats funny, we debate all day long how the AR15 is anemic in power as used by our armed forces, yet its somehow the most deadly rifle in the world when used by criminals.

one day, i wish the VPC would realize all the inconsistancies of their lies and propoganda.

'that guns evil because it has a pistol grip and can be fired from the hip, its more deadly that way!'

'that guns evil because it has a shoulder stock, and can be fired from the shoulder, its more deadly that way!'
 
Interestingly enough all of that went down under a federal ban and state ban of said weapons. What happened Feinstein!?!
 
Remember that Robert Sherrill, in "The Saturday Night Special", which has been called "the Bible of gun control" and "our inspriration" by Sarah Brady, advocated complete disarmament of the police first, even before banning guns for everyone else. He calls the police about every vicious name you can think of ("trigger happy" and "bungling incompetents" are among the nicer terms).

Any police officer who thinks the VPC or the Brady Campaign is on the side of the police is sadly mistaken. They use police deaths in their campaign, but really seem to hate the police and all law enforcement.

Jim
 
But some experts say arming officers with rifles is a knee-jerk reaction.''Because the bad guys have assault rifles, law enforcement officers should?'' asks Tom Diaz,

If Tom Diaz is a gun and violence expert then I am Mahatma Ghandi.
 
No matter what a department issues or allows there will always be some badguy out there, in some situation, who will have, by deffinition, better weaponry.

What cops need is adecuate weaponry to do thier jobs. Rifles and shotguns fill the bill at minimum.

This whole arguement is a farce - besides, I've no respect for these guys in the first place.
 
If I can't have one, neither should the cops. They're not special, they're citizens just like everyone else.

--Shannon
 
One survey, Decker said, showed that 79 percent of the people who killed officers practiced at the range at least once a month


Hmmm....This sounds fishy to me. If you're going to make a statement like that, or print a second hand account of a statement like that you should at least back it up with the actual source.


This is moving toward the militarization of law enforcement.''

I had to catch my breath for a second.....I almost agreed with Diaz? Ouch.

I don't like the militarization of law enforcement either, but I don't think having a semiauto rifle in the trunk of some patrol cars is a step in that direction.


Now....knee high boots and balaclavas? :scrutiny:
 
I think Diaz just realized that if the police have rifles then the rifles have to be made by the EVIL gun companies. Thus preventing the VPC from shutting down Evil corporations like Colt and Bushmaster w/o disarming cops. Remember these people are the friend of Law Enforcement.:rolleyes:
 
''We're taking AK-47s off drug dealers,'' said Fort Lauderdale police range master Jim Decker, a former officer. ``Whatever [weapon] is out there, they're buying it.''
The AK-47 (for Avtomat Kalashnikova 1947) is a ubiquitous assault rifle that can be equipped with 30- or 40-round clips or a 75-round drum. The ammo can be easily purchased on the Internet.
''My second day on the road, I was getting shot at with a high-powered weapon, and I couldn't shoot back with my handgun,'' Decker said. ``And, what's worse, the bad guys are training themselves so they can shoot better.''
One survey, Decker said, showed that 79 percent of the people who killed officers practiced at the range at least once a month.
''They have them [rifles] and they know how to use them,'' he said.


So now we have poice officers saying that common citizens should not know how to shoot. He actually said that bad guys know how to use them, but the police (when they make statements like this) don't seem to be able to differentiate the bad guys from the rst of the common citizens. You can be assured that if he had his way, it would be illegal for anyone except police and military to actually shoot any firearm at a range for practice.

I suppose he would rather that the bad guys be such terrible shots that they empty the 40 round magazines into innocent bystanders with no body armor; at least the police wouldn't be injured. Perhaps if the police and courts took more of the bad guys off the streets, they wouldn't have to worry about geting guns off the streets; the guns on the streets would be in the hands of Good Guys (not just the police).

As for them being referred to as High Powered Weapons (AR15 and AK-47 type), they Are when compared to the typical handgun; they are Not when compared to the typical hunting rifle.
 
''Because the bad guys have assault rifles, law enforcement officers should?'' asks Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst for the Violence Policy Center, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit organization that advocates gun control.
``I don't see the rationale behind that type of thinking. What's next? Cops in armored cars and tanks? This is moving toward the militarization of law enforcement.''
Where's he been?

Gotta love the way VPC thinks -- ONLY the bad guys should have have assault rifles ...
 
one day, i wish the VPC would realize all the inconsistancies of their lies and propoganda.

The VPC knows..they fabricated all the lies.

I wish everyone else would realize that you shouldn't eat dog excrement just because the VPC packages it nice and has hollywood actors and media gleefully lapping it up.
 
No - you don't get it - this is actually good. It makes him look all the kookier.
 
KNEE-JERK REACTION?
But some experts say arming officers with rifles is a knee-jerk reaction.
''Because the bad guys have assault rifles, law enforcement officers should?'' asks Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst for the Violence Policy Center, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit organization that advocates gun control.
``I don't see the rationale behind that type of thinking. What's next? Cops in armored cars and tanks? This is moving toward the militarization of law enforcement.''

Sounds like Tom Diaz has a lot in common with some THR members :evil:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=121532

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=27518

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=12332

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86507

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=36276

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=27735

It's nice to see that VPC and many of the members here have finally reached common ground :D.

Jeff
 
Beg pardon, Thats taking me out of contex. I could say that since Tom Diaz and I both breath air we have common ground.

For the life of me I see no reason for police issuing M16-A1 weapons to the rank and file. A semi AR15 would suffice and I would say had they been available during the LA shootout instead of raiding a local gun store to obtain them the shoot out would have ended sooner.


Franklin County sheriff's deputies will soon be armed with new M-16 rifles obtained through a program with the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD).
The 25 rifles, worth close to $50,000, were delivered recently to the sheriff's office in Union.

Since that article the defense department has added surplus M79's to the mix according to some reports.:eek:

I don't know about anyone else but after New Orleans I don't want them to have anything I or my fellow gunowners don't
 
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As I recall, Diaz was one of the clowns who thought Reno sending in armor and using military weapons and equipment was a wonderful idea. And NOW he's upset by the 'militarization' of law enforcement.
 
Apparently having ones head stuck up ones ass a couple of feet, cuts off the circulation to the brain. Tom Diaz is suffering from this very affliction and its caused his brain to shrink, so he is no longer capable of any rational thought.
 
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