Walther Customer Service. Not Good!

[tightgroup tiger]

I already own a Walther PDQ Q5 SF Pro 9mm target gun. I always thought the world of it. So I went out and bought a PDP SD Pro which has their "Dynamic Performance Trigger" system that was listed on their website, under the parts area as 3.8 lbs break.

I checked their web site several times because I was looking to buy one of these triggers for my Q5 as they are also listed under the part section as being compatible with both guns.
So I buy the PDP SD Pro, with the Dynamic Performance trigger to get the 3.8lb trigger.

I get it home to find out it is breaking at 4.8-5lbs on my $1000.00 Shimpo force gauge.
Not happy!
I take it to the range and it jams on the last 2 rounds in every magazine I ran through it. I suffer through 250 rounds with it. The same loads that all my Smiths, my Q5, and even my cheapo Keltec pf9 just love.
So I called Walther and complained and they send me a return label. I send it in saying that I wanted the 3.8 lb trigger that they advertised on their website for the "Dynamic Performance Trigger" , that's why I paid the extra $200.00 for that pistol. https://waltherarms.com/walther-pdp-pro-sd-compact-4 vs. https://waltherarms.com/pdp-compact

They only had one "Dynamic Performance Trigger System" for all these years and it's always been listed as 3.8 lbs on their website.

I got it back today and they didn't do anything to it but send me a letter saying their website now says 5.6lb trigger, and I looked at the website and they took the 3.8 verbiage for the Dynamic Performance Trigger under the parts heading, off the web site.

Then, I call to complain they just try to make me look like some sort of stupid straight up fool by saying that's not what their website says now.

Under the parts section of their website just last week before I sent this gun back, the web site said the Dynamic Performance trigger that my gun has in it, broke at "a crisp 3.8 lbs".
Now this week, it doesn't say a weight at all in that same ad and now the specs for the PDP SD Pro says it's breaks at 5.6 lbs for their "Dynamic Performance trigger".

Their standard service trigger for their normal PDP service gun says it breaks at 5.6lb in the specs. https://waltherarms.com/pdp-compact

Why would anyone pay an extra $200.00 for Dynamic Performance Trigger that has the same 5.6 lbs trigger pull spec as the standard service trigger. I could have got the gun at $200.00 less. I don't like this kind of deceitful business practice from any company. I don't like a company that changes their web site, then tries to tell their customers that we're wrong, that's not what the website says now.

I also called the business chain I bought the gun from and told them what happened with this brand new Walther and how I was treated, and they said they are in contact with Walther about twice a week and they're going to ask them why this happened. And they are going to inform all their sales people about this situation also.


Hopefully someone in the company that cares about their reputation will put a stop to this kind of deceitful behavior.

If they would have just come out and said something like " we can't make the trigger 3.8lb like we have been advertising it to be, so we are going to list it as 5.6 lb, the same as our $200.00 cheaper gun has", I wouldn't have bought it.
But I would have still respected them for their honesty. I have no respect for Walther at all now.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I would be upset too. I just checked my PPX. It has a 5.5 lb pull. And it's a cheap Walther. They have it advertised as 6.5 lb pull. Mines broken in though.

 

[tarosean]

Obviously a rant. how does the trigger feel? Have you tried a different trigger gauge?

 

[Dudedog]

I don't think it's a rant I think it is a valid complaint, deceptive if not worse marketing.
The trigger might feel great and be smooth as butter but if Tightgroup paid extra for the lighter trgger he should have gotten one. 3.9 or 4 would have probably been ok, not a pound 1/2 over.
I an not familiar with the gauge he used but it wasn't a cheap trigger pull gauge it was a precision force gauge and he does that kind of stuff for a living so I am pretty confident he did it correctly,
and Walter didn't suggest he checked it incorrectly THEY changed their website, most likely due to other customers having the same complaint.

I know CS from companies varies depending on who looks at the problem or who you deal with.
I don't own any Walters but it sure would't give a warm fuzzy feeling about them.
He said his other Walter is a great gun, and that's why he bought the second one.
Everybody is free to from their own opinion but at least for me the above would make me think twice about buying a Walter.

 

[tarosean]

I an not familiar with the gauge he used but it wasn't a cheap trigger pull gauge it was a precision force gauge and he does that kind of stuff for a living so I am pretty confident he did it correctly,

Putting a $$ amount doesn’t mean squat as to what’s happening.

Maybe the OP should sue like the current trend of fast food not looking like it’s advertising.

 

[fastbolt]

Perhaps they would refund you the extra $200? Did you ask?

Gun companies change specs now and then. Sometimes the reasons may not be clear to the customer or potential customer.

FWIW, in the Walther armorer manual for the P99 AS (Anti-Stress), the SA trigger pull is rated at 4.5lbs (20N). The Walther PPQ, FWIW, has a listed trigger pull in the armorer manual of "approx. 25 N (5.6 lbs)".

Anyway, when I was seeing many NIB 99 AS action guns in-service (and personally owned), I occasionally checked the trigger pulls and saw NIB measurements of 5-6.5lbs. When I had occasion to check a couple of those same guns after they'd been fired for some time, I saw some SA measurements on the same gauge drop to 4-4.5lbs.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Obviously a rant. how does the trigger feel? Have you tried a different trigger gauge?

Not a rant. I don't like false advertising and my trigger gauge isn't some cheap $50.00 strain gauge like Lyman sells, although theirs may work well, I don't know. My force gauge is a precision, Nist certified force gauge that is proven accurate. Walther also admitted my trigger pull was higher than they advertised , and said their web site says 5.6 lbs now so it's in spec now.
Their Dynamic Performance Trigger was always advertised at 3.8 pounds

Now it's gone off the web site and their description of the trigger is 5.6lbs now. This happened just this week. Under the parts section for the parts we can buy for these guns this spec of 3.8 lb is gone also.
Now they're acting towards me like this spec was never there. You see where is says Trigger Pull Weight (High) 3-3.9lb. At the top is says Trigger Pull Weight 3.8.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Perhaps they would refund you the extra $200? Did you ask?

Gun companies change specs now and then. Sometimes the reasons may not be clear to the customer or potential customer.

FWIW, in the Walther armorer manual for the P99 AS (Anti-Stress), the SA trigger pull is rated at 4.5lbs (20N). The Walther PPQ, FWIW, has a listed trigger pull in the armorer manual of "approx. 25 N (5.6 lbs)".

Anyway, when I was seeing many NIB 99 AS action guns in-service (and personally owned), I occasionally checked the trigger pulls and saw NIB measurements of 5-6.5lbs. When I had occasion to check a couple of those same guns after they'd been fired for some time, I saw some SA measurements on the same gauge drop to 4-4.5lbs.

They won't refund anything, they said the gun is in the spec listed on their website now. It wasn't listed like that before I sent the gun in last week though.


I hope the trigger does break in to a lighter weight and the stovepiping stops with break in also.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Maybe the OP should sue like the current trend of fast food not looking like it’s advertising.

I have no clue what that means, Why don't you go troll somewhere else.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I just checked if Mcarbo has a trigger kit. No luck though.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Hmm. Now I found a 2023 ad from Euro-Optics that says the trigger system is discontinued. It says out of stock right now. Right now it just says out of stock.
They copied the add from Walthers website.

Walther Arms Dynamic Performance Trigger Gray 2846594

Walther Arms Dynamic Performance Trigger Gray 2846594 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

 

[fastbolt]

...
I hope the trigger does break in to a lighter weight and the stovepiping stops with break in also.

First of all, it's impossible to diagnose what's happening with any particular gun without being there to handle & examine it in-person, and preferably to observe the 'problem' occurring while the shooter is experiencing it, and then (even better) to shoot the gun using the ammunition yourself (speaking as a retired instructor and armorer). That said ...

In your first post you wrote:

I take it to the range and it jams on the last 2 rounds in every magazine I ran through it. I suffer through 250 rounds with it. The same loads that all my Smiths, my Q5, and even my cheapo Keltec pf9 just love.

Now you write 'stovepiping'.

Do you mean live-round or empty case stovepipe?

Live-round stovepipes can often be a magazine and/or ammunition issue. Mag lip dimensions, spring tension and/or follower specs, for example. Ammunition might be under or over-powered, which might not be something that bothers your other 9mm pistols (at this time, at any rate). Over-powered ammo combined with a mag spring on the weak end of the normal spec, with a brand new RSA, might come together with a particular shooter's grip technique to produce something puzzle, for example.

Does it happen with each magazine?

Did you have another shooter try it?

Only on the last 2 rounds, right? Makes you wonder if slide velocity is outrunning the mag spring tension as the springs are reaching their least amount of being under tension. (Ditto shooter grip and fatigue, as is sometimes another issue.)

If it happens with only 1 magazine, that's a clue. Both (or more) magazines? Back to looking at other influences.

What ammunition? Factory? Reloads?

Gun cleaned and properly lubed before the first range trip? Magazines clean and not containing debris, oil, etc?

Don't laugh at this, but did you disassemble and inspect the magazines before using them for the first time? I only ask because I've seen a surprising number of instances where the factory magazines had been assembled with the magazine springs installed upside down and/or backwards, which may interfere with feeding and the slide locking open when empty. (I've also seen some occasional shooters reassemble their magazines with the springs incorrectly oriented, and even the followers in backwards ... but that's another type of problem.

Comes to that, if you did disassemble them before the range trip, did you reassemble the springs oriented properly?

Just some thoughts. I take it Walther didn't respond with any thoughts or corrective actions regarding the complaint of 'jamming' or 'stovepiping' when you sent it back?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I just checked if Mcarbo has a trigger kit. No luck though.

I saw a company called Springco that has products for Walther triggers, I will call them and see what say about getting this trigger to where it's supposed to be.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I been wanting to make a trip to Euro-Optics. They are about an hour away from me. My last Vortex scope came from them.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Do you mean live-round or empty case stovepipe?

empty case

If it happens with only 1 magazine, that's a clue. Both (or more) magazines? Back to looking at other influences.

I'll check that.

Gun cleaned and properly lubed before the first range trip? Magazines clean and not containing debris, oil, etc?

Mag were spotless and so was gun. I took slide off before I went to range because I wanted to be familiar with Walther new slide removal system on this gun.

Don't laugh at this, but did you disassemble and inspect the magazines before using them for the first time? I only ask because I've seen a surprising number of instances where the factory magazines had been assembled with the magazine springs installed upside down and/or backwards, which may interfere with feeding and the slide locking open when empty. (I've also seen some occasional shooters reassemble their magazines with the springs incorrectly oriented, and even the followers in backwards ... but that's another type of problem.

No, I didn't take the magazines apart. I may though now. They would be the same as the magazines in my Q5 so I would know which way is supposed to be correct.

Just some thoughts. I take it Walther didn't respond with any thoughts or corrective actions regarding the complaint of 'jamming' or 'stovepiping' when you sent it back?

They just said they tested it and found no problems with it. I can work with the jamming problem to get it resolved so it works as good as my Smiths and Rugers work.
At least I hope I can.

The trigger, I won't live with it the way it is right now. I will call Springco and explain my situation that I have a Dynamic Precision trigger that isn't so precision and is way to heavy and see what they say. I may call my gun smith also and ask him about this too.
I shouldn't have to pay to fix a brand new gun but this seems to be the way it's going to be.
I am still wondering why Euro-Optic has the trigger system listed as discontinued when Walther has it listed as out of stock. I wish I would have seen that before I talked to them the second time.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I know CS from companies varies depending on who looks at the problem or who you deal with.

This. I've talked to company reps, where the conversation stops when I acknowledge using reloads, and other reps where we spend 10 minutes gabbing about what load components work best.

Sorry to hear your unhappiness with Walther; moderate on the Walther forum, and the feedback on CS has generally been very positive for their traditional guns (PP series).

Fastbolt did give you a lot of good diagnostic information; don't dismiss checking the magazines. Got some lightly used magazines for a CZ Scorpion, and found some with the spring installed backwards.
Moon

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I'll check the magazines when I get back from PA. Leaving this morning and I'll be up there till Sunday so I won't be able to do anything with the gun until I get back.

Appreciate the help Fastbolt.

Sorry to hear your unhappiness with Walther; moderate on the Walther forum, and the feedback on CS has generally been very positive for their traditional guns (PP series).

Their turn around time was really good which means they either got right on it or didn't do anything to it. My case, they didn't do anything but take the claim of this trigger having al 3.8lb pull off the website. That's why I'm pissed. They have had that add up on their website since sometime in 2020 I believe.
They only had one Dynamic Precision Trigger system, what I don't know is why they took down the claim of 3.8lbs trigger pull and replaced it with the trigger pull of 5.6 from the standard service model.
Then try to make me believe that I must be wrong, that they do not see 3.8lb on their website. That's what I'm calling them out on.

That's lying and I don't put up with that from any business I deal with and I have delt with a lot of machine companies over the last 30+ years as a working maintenance supervisor. Some good and some bad, but most of them were honest if they wanted to stay in business, and if they were honest with me, I always could work through the rest of it with them to make a good working relationship.
That's the way it's supposed to work.

Maybe the person I talked to was the wrong person to talk to but he represented Walther when he told me this.

 

[fastbolt]

FWIW, the use of reloaded ammunition can introduce another potential contributing factor to normal functioning, even (perhaps especially) when a NIB pistol is involved. The case dimensions (sizing and case rim dimensions, etc) and the power levels may vary from whatever the factory ammunition was that Walther used to check functioning with live-fire.

Also, I'd not discount the possibility of a mix-up of some sort somewhere at Walther regarding the listing of the trigger pull weight and the use of the precision trigger system in their website. I've heard of other instances with other gun makers where mistakes ended up being missed because people in different depts seemingly didn't talk to each other about something, or someone editing info going on the website (or into a brochure or manual) made a mistake, or they didn't catch a mistake made by someone else. Ditto calling something 'discontinued' versus 'out of stock'. Might be a communications issue. I've also seen another gun maker change how they were listing their trigger pull weights on different models.

Sure, some issues can result in customer expectations being disappointed or inconvenienced. That's a pop fly to customer service. It is what it is.

 

[bdickens]

 

[Reinz]

Wow, what a bunch of jerks at Walther!

Even Taurus wouldn’t be so underhanded as to change the website. Yeah they would send the gun back without changing a thing to the gun, but they sure wouldn’t change the website

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Yeah, I certainly didn't expect that from them.
I still think over all they are a good company the makes a good product in spite of how my experience went, but I won't be buying anymore from them.
I know there are a lot of people that really like their products and I hope they have better luck then I've had with this gun.

 

[Nuclear]

I’m going to put this as delicately as I can. After they have your money, Walther doesn’t give a <edited> about your problems with their guns. I only say this because I have had multiple issues with their so-called Customer Service. And then I was told by their apologists that Walther would address my problems promptly if I just contacted then again. Which they did not after I did. I finally offered, in writing, to give them hundreds of dollars for a new slide that would address my gun’s issue. Crickets. And I loved my PPQ.

BTW, there is a spring kit that will lighten the trigger pull on your gun. It is part number 87888 from Springco.

 

[Telekinesis]

I have one of the early PDP Pro SD full size models. I’m not sure if there are actually “generations” so to speak, but I bought the gun as soon as it came out so there could be some differences compared to a brand new production gun.

Anyway, the trigger started off a little over 4.5 lbs and through use it did get a bit smoother and lighter. Maybe down to 4 lbs but not significantly lighter than that. The biggest difference (and what I was actually looking for) was a very crisp break which the trigger delivered.

I do remember reading something about the sear housing on the Pro SD being different from the standard drop in Performance Trigger, but I’m not sure if that was true or just people on the internet trying to nitpick.

I would recommend trying the springco kit if you want to reduce the trigger weight.

Not really sure what to say about Walther’s customer service though. Sometimes typos do happen, but that is a pretty bad experience to have them change the website and then cite it without explaining something like “hey, we made a mistake, it wasn’t supposed to be X lbs” or something like that.

 

[VoodooMountain]

Use the Google Wayback.

I did this once in a similar, non gun related, situation and it worked

From your link, I went back to June 2023 on walther site and it shows a 5.6lb trigger weight via your first link you posted. You may have to search around a bit on Wayback to find what you want.

WALTHER PDP PRO SD – COMPACT 4” – www.waltherarms.com

The compact PDP Pro SD features revolutionary ergonomics, SuperTerrain Slide Serrations, & a brand-new Performance Duty Trigger.

web.archive.org

Wayback Machine

archive.org

 

[halfmoonclip]

When it comes to trigger breakweight, there's always the chance that someone had an ND, or some combination of the mechanical and legal departments got things crossed up.
Was there anything else promised for your extra $200? Sights/finish, etc?
If the great trigger was all that was justifying the extra money, then I'd be wanked as well.
Moon