I use these
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=337952
and they are ridculously accurate out of my remmy mil-spec 5r, about .75 moa at 100 yds.
Want a bolt gun, talk me into or out of 7.62x39
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I use these
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=337952
and they are ridculously accurate out of my remmy mil-spec 5r, about .75 moa at 100 yds.
In have a Charles Daly and an Interarms and both are scoped...Both are awesome guns for kids' first deer rifles. The 125 grain softpoint is death on deer within 100ish. Small stocks on the minimausers and the low recoil are perfect for youngsters.
Jackal
Member
If your going to be shooting subsonic, why not just go .45ACP? Heavier bullet, larger diameter and about the same velocity (has to be, to be subsonic). Subsonic rifle caliber has the be one of the most pointless ideas in the firearms world. Rifle = power/range. Subsonic = slow/weak.
That's a decent question. The answer is factory supersonic ammo. I want a rifle that leaves me the option of hand loaded subsonics, but also has factory ammo available for it. I don't care the 45 wouldn't go super so much as I care that a full power 45 is let's say less than accurate at 100 yards. The ballistic coefficient is just not there.
I want the gun set up for 100-200yards.
Maybe you should do a little reading on subsonic rifle calibers as you are quite mistaken in your opinion. Go to the whisper forum and tell them they are pointless. While you're at it, show me a 1MOA 45 acp at 100 yards please. And when you give up on that, show me a 150gr supersonic 45acp that will get out to 300 yards.
R.W.Dale
Member
Not to mention the super nice set trigger! I think you made an excellent decision. Please keep us updated (with pics) on your build's progress
Here's a thought,
What about a .308 rifle and use a CHAMBER ADAPTER for 7.62x39
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
What about a .308 rifle and use a CHAMBER ADAPTER for 7.62x39
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm
R.W.Dale
Member
Why? So you can have a rifle that DOESNT chamber from the mag or extract.
Also google up some of the horror stories about these adapters becoming perminate
Also google up some of the horror stories about these adapters becoming perminate
shaman
Member
Been wanting to get a cz527 in x39, but cant seem to find them used. Like to know how you do with one.
Let us know what you go with. Jackal, range is also about aerodynamics, not just power. The 6.5 Grendel for example. The .45 is like a brick compared to a rifle.
I posted here asking about the 338 Spectre's range and accuracy with its subsonic Sierra 300 gr HPBT MK load, but no response at the moment. Your thought of going 7.62x39 is brilliant if only for it's ubiquity, but I don't know if there are any .308-.311 bullet options to make a 338 Spectre comparable subsonic load or how they would group.
I'm personally looking for an AR15 upper, but at any rate that CZ carbine does look like a nice little deer rifle.
I posted here asking about the 338 Spectre's range and accuracy with its subsonic Sierra 300 gr HPBT MK load, but no response at the moment. Your thought of going 7.62x39 is brilliant if only for it's ubiquity, but I don't know if there are any .308-.311 bullet options to make a 338 Spectre comparable subsonic load or how they would group.
I'm personally looking for an AR15 upper, but at any rate that CZ carbine does look like a nice little deer rifle.
I never had any problems with chamber adapters, I have them in 308/7.62x39, 30-06/308,7.62x39 and for back yard fun .303/32acp and 308/32acp
People have been use'm for years in Garands to shot 308s.
Like I said, its just a thought you can look into.
Another thought, buy a Savage and put a 7.62x39 barrel on it, Midway has'm
People have been use'm for years in Garands to shot 308s.
Like I said, its just a thought you can look into.
Another thought, buy a Savage and put a 7.62x39 barrel on it, Midway has'm
There a big difference between 30-06/308 and 308/7.62x39
For one thing 30-06 and 308 have the same case head size (0.473) so work with the same extractor. 7.62x39 has a case head of around 0.445. 7.62x39 also used a nominal 0.311 bullet versus 0.308.
For one thing 30-06 and 308 have the same case head size (0.473) so work with the same extractor. 7.62x39 has a case head of around 0.445. 7.62x39 also used a nominal 0.311 bullet versus 0.308.
In regards to a savage with a new barrel, or any other bolt gun rechambered for 7.62; As I understand it, due to the relatively weak shoulder and large amount of taper the 7.62x39 round has, it is difficult to get it to feed properly in guns that were not designed for it. These two issues can be visually seen in the aggressive curve of the AK mag.
I suspect this is part of the reason so few guns are chambered in it world wide. With as popular as the round is, and smaller size of eastern European game, you would think it would be popular. But, as far as I know, there is only one Yugoslavian factory making them, that is the same one that the Remington, Charles Daily, Interarms, etc is based off of.
The CZ appears to be the only other unique gun I've found. Not counting the Enfield re-chambered in x39.
Dannix: I've found a commerical "thumper" x39 load that uses a 220gr bullet. Talked with a New Zealander that got 180gr cycling in his AK. I plan to use 220gr if I stick with the 1:9 barrel the cz comes with (although cut down) and 240gr if I replace it with a 1:7. I've also found molds for casting 250gr. A nice part about x39 is that it will be factory brass, which is small issue with the Spectre, Whisper, etc. I had considered trying this with an AK, and before that an AR, however, I want it quiet which pretty much rules semi autos out. Then again, I do have a registered SBR AR so I'll probably do a whisper at some point. I guess if this works well, I would consider a 7.62 AR, but mags kinda suck. As far as 300 or 338 accuracy, it's great. The problem is the bullet moves slow and wind has a lot of time to effect it. The other issue is that the bdc is similar to a .22LR, it may be difficult finding a scope that will have enough range to get you over 300 yards. I'm planning on 200 yards ideal, I'll try 300+ but I won't cry if it becomes hit or miss.
shaman: I want one used as well, but it seems they rarely sell. So, even new I think it will be a good purchase. If it doesn't work for me, I know it will sell.
I suspect this is part of the reason so few guns are chambered in it world wide. With as popular as the round is, and smaller size of eastern European game, you would think it would be popular. But, as far as I know, there is only one Yugoslavian factory making them, that is the same one that the Remington, Charles Daily, Interarms, etc is based off of.
The CZ appears to be the only other unique gun I've found. Not counting the Enfield re-chambered in x39.
Dannix: I've found a commerical "thumper" x39 load that uses a 220gr bullet. Talked with a New Zealander that got 180gr cycling in his AK. I plan to use 220gr if I stick with the 1:9 barrel the cz comes with (although cut down) and 240gr if I replace it with a 1:7. I've also found molds for casting 250gr. A nice part about x39 is that it will be factory brass, which is small issue with the Spectre, Whisper, etc. I had considered trying this with an AK, and before that an AR, however, I want it quiet which pretty much rules semi autos out. Then again, I do have a registered SBR AR so I'll probably do a whisper at some point. I guess if this works well, I would consider a 7.62 AR, but mags kinda suck. As far as 300 or 338 accuracy, it's great. The problem is the bullet moves slow and wind has a lot of time to effect it. The other issue is that the bdc is similar to a .22LR, it may be difficult finding a scope that will have enough range to get you over 300 yards. I'm planning on 200 yards ideal, I'll try 300+ but I won't cry if it becomes hit or miss.
shaman: I want one used as well, but it seems they rarely sell. So, even new I think it will be a good purchase. If it doesn't work for me, I know it will sell.
R.W.Dale
Member
There are a couple major problems with the .338Spectre the folks selling them won't bother to tell ya.
1. What factory ammo?
and
2. the big one, There are NO .338 bullets that'll expand inside this cartridges supersonic velocity envelope if you would like to hunt with the thing. As it stands pretty much the entire .338 bullet line up is intended for cartridges that have well over 1000fps over the spectre
A couple of great subsonic 7.62x39 write ups
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/762ProjectRifle.html
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/762Page.html
Does anyone know if the 223 mags will fit in the 7.62x39 guns and vice versa?
I decided to put the 7.62x39 on hold as I don't have a source for brass. However, I have an infinite supply of 223 brass so I'm going to do a whisper.
I liked everything about the CZ though and bought one in 223.
The 223 mags don't readily allow a 30 cal bullet so I was told that the x39 mag might fit. Trying to find someone with both to confirm, but that's kinda rare.
I decided to put the 7.62x39 on hold as I don't have a source for brass. However, I have an infinite supply of 223 brass so I'm going to do a whisper.
I liked everything about the CZ though and bought one in 223.
The 223 mags don't readily allow a 30 cal bullet so I was told that the x39 mag might fit. Trying to find someone with both to confirm, but that's kinda rare.
R.W.Dale
Member
As far as the rifle is concerned the mags interchange.
As far as the cartridge is concerned the mags DO NOT interchange.
I tried both combinations and the feed lips are just too diffrent
As far as the cartridge is concerned the mags DO NOT interchange.
I tried both combinations and the feed lips are just too diffrent
Krochus:
Thanks for clearing that up. I figured as much just looking at a 223 and a x39 in my hand.
Do you think if a guy had a jig to do so that the feed lips could be bent in on the x39 mag or is there just not enough material there?
Thanks again
Thanks for clearing that up. I figured as much just looking at a 223 and a x39 in my hand.
Do you think if a guy had a jig to do so that the feed lips could be bent in on the x39 mag or is there just not enough material there?
Thanks again
R.W.Dale
Member
honestly Id be quite suprised if a 223 mag wouldn't feed 300fireball
why wouldn't it? Same case size, OAL and shape. Bigger bullet. Heck it works in ar mags
why wouldn't it? Same case size, OAL and shape. Bigger bullet. Heck it works in ar mags
JimmAr: Wrong topic? How is that possibly "the question"
krochus: The issue is the mag dimples that run up and down are there to keep the bullet straight. In the 223 mag they are too narrow inside for the 30cal bullets. So they need to be cut. I've heard this from 3 people now.
I was hoping the 7.62 mag would work to some degree, but I was told the cuts aren't that big of a deal because they are inside the magwell when inserted.
krochus: The issue is the mag dimples that run up and down are there to keep the bullet straight. In the 223 mag they are too narrow inside for the 30cal bullets. So they need to be cut. I've heard this from 3 people now.
I was hoping the 7.62 mag would work to some degree, but I was told the cuts aren't that big of a deal because they are inside the magwell when inserted.
R.W.Dale
Member
IIRC my 7.62cz mags wouldn't even hold onto .223
On brass
7.62x39 brass isn't that hard to get, widners has IMI and if all else fails you can buy loaded remchester just for the cases. But either way I'd take scrounging brass anyday over no factory ammo combined with mag funkiness. Heck that was the whole reason we talked you into a CZ. Heck going the 300/221 route you coulda saved yourself a huge amount of trouble and expense and just built an AR that'll do everything you want
On brass
7.62x39 brass isn't that hard to get, widners has IMI and if all else fails you can buy loaded remchester just for the cases. But either way I'd take scrounging brass anyday over no factory ammo combined with mag funkiness. Heck that was the whole reason we talked you into a CZ. Heck going the 300/221 route you coulda saved yourself a huge amount of trouble and expense and just built an AR that'll do everything you want
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Sorry was partly agreeing with what krochus had to say while asking him that question.. however I would recommend the 300 fireball over the 7.62x39 in a bolt or semi any day if we are talking about a subsonic platform they'll shoot sub moa groups at 100 yards.
David E: None of the American 7.62x39 brass is berdan primed. Maybe you are thinking the surplus steel cased stuff?
JimmAr: The problem with being absolute is it's possible to get x39 to shoot MOA as well. It's also just as possible to get a whisper that will only shoot 3MOA. I don't think one is "better" than the other, just different.
krochus: Thanks for checking. I had a guy tell me that the mag won't even fit in the rifle. Not sure why people say **** they have no idea about. I'll just plan on modifying the mags, however, I don't want the cuts exposed to the elements when the mag is inserted. I'll have to patch I guess.
JimmAr: The problem with being absolute is it's possible to get x39 to shoot MOA as well. It's also just as possible to get a whisper that will only shoot 3MOA. I don't think one is "better" than the other, just different.
krochus: Thanks for checking. I had a guy tell me that the mag won't even fit in the rifle. Not sure why people say **** they have no idea about. I'll just plan on modifying the mags, however, I don't want the cuts exposed to the elements when the mag is inserted. I'll have to patch I guess.
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