Wanting a 223 Remington or 204 Ruger bolt gun

[Big JJ]

Help me decides which caliber rifle to get.
I have every gun that I need except varmint gun.
I only want a bolt gun.
I only want a center fire rifle no rim fires.
I only want one gun and I reload for all of my guns.
I will use it for hunting squirrels,rabbits,GH,s,bobcats and coyotes out to 300 yards.
Narrowed it down to a 223 Rem or the 204 Ruger caliber gun.
Don't want anything bigger than the 223. I understand what the bigger calibers will do just don't want the recoil,more powder and the report of the bigger calibers. I currently have a 308 for my big game rifle.
I also like The 17 Remington at well over 4000 fps but I understand that it has a lot of barrel issues and you need to clean the barrel every 15 rounds. That just won't do for an all day shoot so I have ruled it out because of these issues.
So back to the differences between the 223 and 204.
All opinions are welcome.
I understand that the 204 really does not get the fps that many claim it does.
Has anyone chronographed the 204 or the 223 out of a bolt gun and if so what is the highest fps reading that you have seen or either caliber.
What are the specific details of the type of rifle it was shot out of?
Some websites say you can get a 223 over 4000 fps with the right loads.
Really, if so what are the loads and what are the specific details of the gun and load?
I have absolutely no safe queens, if I buy a gun I shoot it a lot just because I like shooting and hunting.
All please chime in with your 2 cents and more importantly why you feel the way you do.

 

[Chief 101]

either caliber will do the job you want to do but the 204 just does it better. For rolling the coyote over 204R with 40 grain bullets makes a small hole going in and scrambles the insides for no pelt damage. Just my experience. I have both and both shoot well just prefer the 204. Did I say 204R does the job better? It does but marginally...

 

[benzy2]

For me, I'll take the .223. For one, there are a wider selection of bullets. While a varmint rifle doesn't require a huge selection, I'd rather have more choices than less. I can find quite a few different varmint options for 223 at the local store compared to needing to drive 40+ minutes each way to be certain I can find 204 bullets. Barrel life seems to be about the same between the two and while the 204 would seem to be more of a burner, it's longer case neck takes more of the abuse than the barrel throat making it nearly a draw.

The real reason is that there are a ton of good options available to handle at the local stores in .223 and very few in .204. While buying online isn't unthinkable, I try to avoid it when possible. Everyone makes a rifle in .223, most offering at least one, if not multiple options in it that are stocked country wide. Not so much with the .204. Now if you can get the rifle you want in .204 with relative ease, it's a moot point. I also like the fact I can find .223 ammo in every store out there, box chains included. I know you reload, but the one day on the one trip you realize you left ammo 500+ miles away (don't ask me how I know this feeling) it's nice to know you can get factory ammo at just about any store that sells ammo.

 

[Jcinnb]

My 204 is inbound for FFL. I got all my reloading stuff and I have cranking out some rounds. I am getting a CZ 527 varmint.

I did tons of research. The only "con" is that I not get one 10 years ago. Good luck.

 

[cfullgraf]

I get velocities with my 204 Rugers (Savage 12 and AR-15) that are comparable with factory ammunition. 32 grain bullets top 4000 fps.

The only way to get 4000 fps with the 223 Remington would be with a very light bullet such as the 36 grain Varmint Grenades but I really would doubt it.

I do not have to clean my 17 Remingtons (Reminton 700 and AR-15) every 15 rounds. Accuracy remains hood well past that. The 17 Remington has a light barrel and accuracy goes to pot after four or five rounds due to heating. Accuracy returns when the barrel cools.

For small animals, I feel the 204 Ruger would be flatter shooting out farther than thd 223 Remington but if you are limiting you shots to 300 yards, 223 Remington will be easier to find components.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

the .204 is a neat caliber...in my opinion (and I am 60)is a fad round....very fast small bullet....the .223 aint my favorite but got lots more all around usefulness. a variety of loads for this caliber, legal in lots of states for deer, the .204 just don't cut it all around....I own couple of .223s....have no interest in the .204. if you got the money and the time to see the comparison, get after it. I aint got the time, money or urge to waste my time on the .204.

 

[dickydalton]

the .204 is a neat caliber...in my opinion (and I am 60)is a fad round....very fast small bullet....the .223 aint my favorite but got lots more all around usefulness. a variety of loads for this caliber, legal in lots of states for deer, the .204 just don't cut it all around....I own couple of .223s....have no interest in the .204. if you got the money and the time to see the comparison, get after it. I aint got the time, money or urge to waste my time on the .204.

Thumbs up TexasPatriot.308.

 

[rcmodel]

.223 for me.
The .204 didn't turn out to be so good on coyotes.
And it took 6 months to get a cleaning rod for it.

But if you really want a coyote rifle?
Get a 22-250!

rc

 

[Cee Zee]

I considered a .204, a .22-250, a .220 Swift and a .223 when looking for a varmint / target rifle. I picked the .223. People talk about flatter shooting of the other calibers. How much holdover is too much? I can keep my scope on the target and the POA at 500 yards with my .223. Why worry about needing holdover for longer distances if you actually intend to shoot varmints and no target shooting? The ammo was just so much cheaper for the .223 it just didn't make sense to me to go with anything else. Plus you have a whole bunch of rifle options and off the shelf ammo options (I can shoot 4" groups pretty consistently at 500 yards with off the shelf ammo - I use Black Hills stuff if I want top accuracy). Plus you can send larger bullets downrange with a .223 including up to 80 gr. with the right barrel twist. The larger bullets don't get blown off course as easy and they hit harder when they reach the target.

There are good and bad points with all calibers of course but for me the .223 made sense. You can likely work out a way to do what you want with either of the calibers you picked. 300 yards is not that far. Even with a 75 gr. bullet I am only aiming a few inches high at 300 yards. It seems pretty insignificant to me.

 

[tdoyka]

if you handload, go with the 204. if you don't, go with the 223.
i do handload, and i shot the 223 55gr with a load of benchmark and it kills groundhaws at 300+yds. the best i have seen yet is a 20 vartarg, 32gr hornady with a load of h4198, and it just flat out kills about the same range as the 223.

it took me about a week to get mine, ordered it from sinclar

 

[rcmodel]

How much hold over at 500 yards is not the reason for the 22-250 or 220 Swift.
The fact is, they kill coyotes DRT at that range.
Just about every time.

And the .223 doesn't.

Rc

 

[viking499]

If both are reloaded, are they both similar?

 

[Big JJ]

My youngest son has a 22-250 so when I need a very long range shooter say 300 to 500 I can barrow his.
Viking 499 great question about the reloading preformance of the :204 and 223.
On paper I see them as the same.
Am I right or not?
Can the 223. Match the 204.

 

[Ankeny]

if you handload, go with the 204. if you don't, go with the 223.

I agree. My brother and mysef have shot many tens of thousands of rounds at p-dogs with the .204 Ruger. We both use the CZ 527 rifle. I now only have the 527 American, but at one time I also had a CZ 527 Varmint. I shot a .204 exclusively on coyotes for several years, as did my brother. We have shot dozens of coyotes with 35 grain Berger bullets and they work fine. I also shoot the 5.56/.223 in AR type rifles, but I have no use for it in a bolt gun. Can the .223 match the .204? In flatness of trajectory, I doubt it. I would have to run some comparisons through a ballistics calculator.

FWIW, I like the .204 Ruger so much because of the mini-Mauser platform that I am using (yeah I know it also available in .223). If I had a "normal" short action bolt gun, I would give serious consideration to a .223 and call it a day just because of the availability of brass, bullets, etc.

 

[redneck2]

I have a super accurate AR Varminter and a CZ 527 with the single set trigger in .204 that is also exceptionally accurate. Either will do what you want. If I were limited to a bolt action, it would be the .204 hands down. On our prairie dog hunts, the only advantage of the .223 is faster to shoot (AR) on misses.

Once you exceed 300 yards it's no contest

 

[viking499]

Are you guy shooting 32's or 40's in the 204?

 

[witchhunter]

I would get a .223, just for the versatility that the .224 bullets allow. Get a 9 or 10 twist barrel and you can shoot big, long bullets at longer ranges too. Load it with a cast lead bullet at slow speeds for a game getter. Both of those things make it more versatile. The .204 is an excellent prairie dog gun, until the wind comes up, but it can't keep up with the .223 shooting a 55 grainer after that. I have been shooting squirrels this weekend with my pardner and his .204's. He loves the .204's for squirrels, He shoots a 32 Vmax at 3890. But as soon as the wind came up, his 204 is iffy. I was shooting a 223, it was noticeably better. Now, if you are talking coyotes 300-400 yards.... I would say get a 22/250.

 

[Big JJ]

Thank you all for sharing your valuable information.
Question has anyone ever chronographed the 204 or the 223 at 4000 fps or higher or are these speeds just not realistic?

 

[GLShooter]

I have lots of 4000+ 204 loads with 32's. Lots of 3850 with the 39's. I have three 204' s a pairbof 527's and an SPS. All shoot like lasers. I also shoot 20 Practical an 20 TACTICAL. Ballistic clones of the 204. The Practical is the best of the three.

My fastest 223 is a 40 at 3800. I also have some wildcats that smokecall of the 20's and can be ordered with less than a three week wait. A bit of brass work but not hard.

Greg

 

[redneck2]

I tried lighter bullets in my .204 CZ 527, but stumbled on 39 Sierra Blitzkings. They shoot sub .5's. Never chrono'd them. Don't care when they shoot that well. I'll take accuacy over speed

 

[Big JJ]

Alright made my decision I will get the 223 caliber gun first and then maybe a 204 caliber next year.
Just wanted to thank all of you for facts figures and opinions.
Every post was very helpful.
Considering one of theses, the Savage 11/111 Trophy hunter or the Ruger American as the bolt gun.
The Savage has a 1 in 9 twist and the Ruger American has a 1 in 8 twist.
Both are very reasonable.
Dicks has a Savage package deal with a 3x9x40 pro staff scope for $499 and the Ruger is $400 without a scope.
I don't think the scope would be good enough for 300 yard GH and small game type of hunting but it is still a good scope worth at lest $150.
Which one would you guys choose?

 

[viking499]

Don't get the Ruger. They are having some good luck with their American rifles, but the 223 version is not one of them right now. I would get the Savage. My 223 is a Tikka. And I really like it. It has a 1:8 twist and can be found for the price of the Savage, just add a scope.

 

[redneck2]

I've had two modern Savages and didn't care for either. Probably more a personal preference. I don't see that you specified a price range, so I'd strongly suggest looking at a CZ with a heavier barrel and I'd REALLY look at their single set trigger models. Fit, finish, trigger, and accuracy are exceptional.

 

[itsa pain]

I get velocities with my 204 Rugers (Savage 12 and AR-15) that are comparable with factory ammunition. 32 grain bullets top 4000 fps.

The only way to get 4000 fps with the 223 Remington would be with a very light bullet such as the 36 grain Varmint Grenades but I really would doubt it.

I do not have to clean my 17 Remingtons (Reminton 700 and AR-15) every 15 rounds. Accuracy remains hood well past that. The 17 Remington has a light barrel and accuracy goes to pot after four or five rounds due to heating. Accuracy returns when the barrel cools.

For small animals, I feel the 204 Ruger would be flatter shooting out farther than thd 223 Remington but if you are limiting you shots to 300 yards, 223 Remington will be easier to find components.

If you use 69-75-80 grain bullets in the 223 with 1x8 twist in no way is the 204 flatter shooting. In fact an 80 grain in a 223 will shoot flatter after 250 yds then a 50 grain in a 22-250

 

[Icky The Great]

Given all the info you posted I will say you want a Savage 10-16 (2 numbers denotes short action) and I do not think you will need a 1:8 or 1:9 twist. My 12FV has a 1:12 twist and I shoot past 500yards with 55 grain bullets and have shot 69 grainers out to 500yards with no problem. The only way I would recommend those fast twist rates is if your loading 68+grains only. Actually I have shot 70 grains out of mine but only at 100 yards. I hit the target. With the huge selection of Varmint Grenades, VMax/Zmax, Varmigeddon, Dead Coyote, and all the other varmint bullets designed to basically explode upon impact with varmints, you only need to get it there, 300yards as you stated, and it will be over. 223 is a good choice and 55gr bullets are far more available for your purpose.

I built my Savage Md 12FV (Field and Varmint) on the factory gun. First setup cost me $450 but I upgraded it all. I added a 20moa rail and a 6.5x24 scope of excellent quality (Bushnell Elite Tactical). I actually only need the 20 moa rail past 680yards though I never shot that far. I have taken many a critter with it under 600 and some hits though they were not precisely where I had hoped to hit did in fact make the kill. Only one woodchuck made it 25' and died looking into his den. I recently changed the stock and scope but still retain the factory 1:12 at 26" barrel though its now threaded for a suppressor, in a Tikka stock with a Viper PST on top. I did adjust the trigger up to about 2.5# from its earlier setting of 2#. It took some creep out of the backside and gave a firmer engagement.