War on Terror or WW III?

Which is it?

  • It's still the war on terror

    Votes: 66 39.1%

  • WW III

    Votes: 103 60.9%
  • Total voters
    169
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Actually, the liberal response to how we should fight the war on terror, reminds me of the British response to Hitler. They sent Neville Chamberlin who met with Hitler who promised Chamberlin that Germany wouldn't be aggressive. Chamberlin gets back England and declares, "Peace in our Time". One year later, the Germans are bombing the hell out of London. All Hitler wanted to do was unite the greater Germany (Lebensraum) all Ahmadinejad wants to do is unite greater Islam. Shortly before WW2, people said, "Oh that Hitler, he's not bad, he just wants to unite people with a common belief. Surely there can't be any harm in that" (starting to sound familiar?) "Why, some Jews in Germany enjoyed privilege under the Nazis". Notice how the press today says, "In Iran, some Jews enjoy privilege. They live in their own unique ethnic neighborhoods (we call them ghettos by the way) and some even hold political office (kapos anyone?). I believe that the press and the Democrats play (as I call it) the "boogieman card". Noone talks of the boogieman because they're afraid if they do, they'll give him substance and he might really exist. Noone talks of the true nature of the war on terror and looming WW3, because they feel that if they do, they may give substance to their fears. I think the truth is that many people in our country are terrified (and rightly so) at the prospect of the next world war. Notice how the press refuses to make connections between jihad and US-based terror like the UNC student who slammed his SUV into his fellow students, or these Egyptian students the FBI just captured. "We don't think there's a connection they say." The fact that they all shared the same ideology is what makes them linked to the Jihadi's... but don't say that, or home-grown terror may really exist... And while I've been comparing the Iranians to the Nazis, the truth is, they fight more like the Japanese (If anyone saw the Mike Wallace interview, Ahmadinejad stated that Iran had over 52,000 members of a special suicide squad awaiting instruction- kamikaze anyone). Devotion to a diety? A special place for the war-dead in heaven- is this Bushido... nope, it's jihad.

Now, maybe I'm wrong and maybe I read too much into history, but this all seems to fit together a little too well. Whenever I question myself, I watch one of the beheading videos on the internet so that I am reminded, "no, these people really are evil." and "no, they can't be reasoned with and they can't be talked to."

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this (at least that's what I get from reading conservative blogs). I seriously believe we need to be more vocal about this. It shouldn't even be a partisan issue. I always tell my liberal friends (who naturally oppose the war on terror), "you know the jihadis aren't going to stop you and ask who you voted for before they saw your head off or blow you up with a room full of people"

Well, that's my rant for tonight. Maybe you'll all think I'm a nut, in which case, you can ask that I be banned from THR, but do at least consider what I have to say.

Incidentally, how many of you knew that Iran means "land of the Aryans?"
 
"Let's see, we have an enemy whose mission it is to destroy all those who don't believe what they do...plain & simple. WWIII? Oh, yeah!"


Its funny that this statement is true no matter which side you are on.
 
cbsbyte, you must be trying to kid me.

The War Powers Act hasn't been used since WWII.

We HAVE an administration that understands the world. In fact, we've had many since the late 1930's.

FDR understood that, if we just let the Nazi regime go about its ways, it was only a matter of time before they brought their Europe stuff (otherwise known as European *#@$) to us.

"If USA would just leave the middle east alone..."

The fight with the radical and violent elements of the Islamic movement have nothing to do with our involvement, presence, or even commentary about their countries' affairs.

We are infidels. We are to be hated, no matter what we do.

You mention "history of the world."

Ok, let's start with history of the last century.

Most of the Arab countries sided with the Nazi's. Patton won, Rommel lost.

An incaluable number of Jews died at the hands of the Nazi's. Burned, shot, whatever...my point is that the percentage of Jews alive at the end of WWII was a fraction of what there was at the outset.

The Arabs backed the murderers. And the Arabs lost.

"To the victor goes the spoils," as the old saying goes.

Well, from my comfy chair, it's always seemed like it was a good idea to create the nation of Israel.

We helped create a country in a region that was hostile to us. Even the Saudi's are not our friends.

And we're never, ever going to be the friend of the Saudi on the street. Or the Iraqi on the street.

Get that buried in your head.

The best that the US will be is a strategic ally. But that's a huge step.

If we can have bases in Iraq, we can pressure Iran. If we can pressure Iran, we can pressure every other tyranical regime in the area.

We have to do it. If we don't, we're roadkill. Our biggest mistake was letting Jimmy Carter try to negotiate the release of over 300 hostages. That embarassment cost not just the lives of hostages killed, but the subsequent loss of servicemen and innocent civilians.

Understand this, too: the hostility from the Arab world toward the US is not just a relgious one. At one time, back in the 13th century or so, the Arab world was the center of commerce.

Because of their "traditions," they are no longer the center of commerce. Spices and camels don't exactly trade on NASDAQ.

The leaders of the Jihadist movements--including Hezbollah, the PLA, and Al-Queda--promise a return to the "glory days." Read "Mein Kampf." I think you'll find many similarities in the appeal to the disenchanted.
 
"Let's see, we have an enemy whose mission it is to destroy all those who don't believe what they do...plain & simple. WWIII? Oh, yeah!"
Click to expand...
Its funny that this statement is true no matter which side you are on.
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haha:fire:

Really? The US military executes foreign policy. I have never heard of, nor seen any mission statement that has anything to that effect. "Destroying people who don't believe what we do" Heck, we give $$ and aid to whomever, irregardless of their belief system as long as they aren't shooting at us, our allies or blowing up innocent civilians.

Statements like that and the belief that all cultures have value and we are all the same is why we keep under-reacting to these evil, evil people. And why it's hard to get support to fight those that wish to destroy freedom at any cost. We only target our self-declared enemies and it don't matter what they believe. We fight and bleed next to our middle eastern allies who have a copy of the same koran that the terrorists do.
 
Drafts come later. We're just getting into the swing of this in earnest. Islamists have been at it for centuries, but I think its been only in the last four years where the west has decided that it better put up some game.


I think we're still in an escalation stage, but I think much more of this war than folks may imagine will occur through the media rather than on the battlefield.

And a fight on the battlefield is to be preferred, because they haven't got a shot. Its on the pages of newspapers where the Islamists and their dhimmi friends are really dangerous, because there they can make a handful of mistakes look like large-scale barbarism, and they can make their large-scale barbarism look like a handful of mistakes. The media is really good at that.

I would say that we're just starting to swing into WW3, which is why I'm not getting all worked up about permanent bases in Iraq. This is a world war, it will take a long time, and when it really gets going, we'll be glad we have them there.

For the islamists, they've been in world war three since the end of the cold war, maybe even earlier. But its only recently that the west has really recognized that it's not just a handful of maniacs, and that its really on now.
 
Shewboner-------Do you really have the world view you allude to. Can you not get out of the post modern mind set of I'm O:K Your O:K to see that there really are alot of people whose ideas are not good and should not be accepted.( Yes I mean can you make a JUDGEMENT) Do you really think the USA is out to force our way of things(other than stopping terrorism ie. The murder of people here). Really. The only ones I see that would force our culture on the Middle East will be the liberals. How long (it is already going on) before you really hear that we must force women's rights on this other culture. You know ABORTION rights. Yea I've already heard the squeakey wheel. Who writes of the burka as being all oppressive. Is it really. Yes if forced. But I would bet alot of women would still want to dress that way. Would that be O:K for the international push for so called womens rights. I doubt it seriously. Oh I know you mean Capitalism.... Yea that would be a bad thing instead of Government ownership of most everything as it is now. Sure let us keep them poor and oppressed with socialism. After all Saddam was a good dictator. I VOTE FOR WWIII. I dread it. I am not sure how many will die before all heck breaks loose. But I expect the worst.
 
If, indeed, we are either heading toward, or already in WW III, shouldn't we be working on re-instituting the draft?

It's it's WW III, we're not ready for it.
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And who is this massive Army of the Republic going to fight?

If the extremists had vast, well-trained, organized armies like Hitler did, I'd truly be concerned. As it stands, all they can do now is blow random stuff up and scare people into not wanting to fly.
 
Well, I knew that I would get a few reactions with my statement... Regardles of its truth, its just enough to rile up people's emotions.
Keep in mind that all I was saying is that both sides of any conflict feel that they are in the right. Otherwise they would not be fighting.

I was not taking any particular side. It is true of all sides in every conflict.


"Terrorists" are attacking us because they hate our freedom? Well they must be winning! Afterall our rights have been crapped on at a much faster rate since the beginning of the 'war on terror'. I fear thegov more than I do terrorists. Terrorism doesnt even cross my mind, it is not going to happen to me, ever in my life. The gov restricting me and taking my rights away.... that I am sure will continue.... to keep me safe of course. So you can have your patriot act and the nsa screening your calls... I hope you feel safer.

Under-reacting? Tell me how you would solve the problem? I am all ears.


Kim, well I guess that is how I think in this particular case. Not because I have some ridiculous utopian view that we can all live together in peace..... blah blah blah..... I may lean left sometimes, but not that far. Get real. Its amazing how one vague comment can open a window into my mind for you people. But to respond to your post...

Do you not think that the USA is trying to force our ways on them? We wont accept anything less then a governing system the mirrors the US/UK systems. So yeah, I think we are trying to bring these people in line with our western systems, whether they want it or not. Anything else is labelled a terrorist regime or similar. The US wants what is best for the US/busine$$ not what is best for the people of any one country. You can opress the hell out of people, but dont be surprised when they lash out. If you were a Palestinian, how would you react to Israel.

The US wants to make these people accept US culture/systems and we will blow the crap out of those who resist. The 'terrorists' want to keep their ways and for us to accpet their ways, and they will continue to fight until it happens....

That is where my original comment comes in. Same means, different ends... side doesnt matter on that level.



Terrorism = Bull$#!^
War on Terror = War on Civil Liberties & Rights

Take it or leave it, but that is the truth as I see it. And no left or right wing emotional crap is going to change that.
 
Its not WW3... yet.

However, even when it does become WW3, which I believe is in the not-so-distant future, I'll be damned if I give away my rights without a fight.
 
NOT WW3 but could be if we wanted it to be.

There are terrorists that must be stopped but really the actions of our government at this point is not really to do that.

The actions of our gov't at this point involving taking all the old rhetoric from the cold war, crossing out "Communist" inserting "Terrorists" and then using it just like the cold war to funnel money to the same military, commercial and political interests that made a lot of money at the expense of everybody else during the cold war.

With the end of the Cold War these people were losing money.

There are things we can do as a country to fight terrorists, but 99% the stuff we are doing is making it worse. Reminds me of the British marching in lines and the Colonists shooting them from behind rocks. We are stuck in our cold war mindset and the whole preventing terrorist act thing requires a lot more intelligence and finesse.
 
Yeah, random stuff. You mean like London, D.C., New York, a few major harbors here and there...

Not to worry.
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Ill worry when these guys start overrunning Western Armies or start taking and holding ground. Right now their tactics and attacks amount to no more than... well.. terrorism.
 
Alright, I'll try to have a resonable discussion.

But how can the vote be 2-1 for WW III????? Are we fighting several other countries? Are millions of soldiers involved? Have we suffered hundreds of thousands of casualties? Are we on a real war time footing? Are we drafting people?

No. We are fighting insurgencies in two small Middle Eastern Countries. Sure, it not smooth sailing right now, but if we had fought Korea and Vietnam at the same time would that have been WW III?


crazed_ss said:
If the extremists had vast, well-trained, organized armies like Hitler did, I'd truly be concerned. As it stands, all they can do now is blow random stuff up and scare people into not wanting to fly.
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I think crazed_ss put it well. We are fighting a terrorist organization with a world wide base. And there is no direct head to strike at, so the going is slow and we have more work to do winning hearts and minds to deny them support. But we are no where near another World War. Not even close.
 
I think crazed_ss put it well. We are fighting a terrorist organization with a world wide base. And there is no direct head to strike at, so the going is slow and we have more work to do winning hearts and minds to deny them support. But we are no where near another World War. Not even close.
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Too bad the other guys see it differently.
 
Its a world war in the sense that it is not confined to one specific area. Anywhere there are Muslims there is war going on. they want to take over and force the rest of us into their 11th century theocracy.

It is going on in the UK, in France, Germany, and Scandanavia. In much of the former Soviet Union and large parts of China. Indonesia, the Phillipines and Australia. Can't forget the US and the Middle East.

You have just two choices.

One option is to surrender. This is the option being pushed by the American left these days.

The other is to defeat it. Some battles can be won on the battlefield. others in the court of public opinion. maybe some economically.

if you do not defeat the enemy, surrender will be the eventual result.
 
Not sure it's relevant to this debate, but I read this over on Google:

"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it reminds them of their responsibility."

I replied with

“Absolute bulls***.......

The mongrels who flew hijacked Jumbos into the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon were all intelligent, articulate young men who had their lives ahead of them. They could have chosen to live succesful lives anywhere in the world. They chose evil.

Have you ever read "Die like the carp", it tells the story of the mass
breakout attempt from Cowra POW camp by Japanese prisoners in
1943. The Japanese conspired to not only escape, but to kill as many Australians as possible. This is despite the fact that they were, in many ways, (food, clothing, provision of recreational equipment and medical aid) treated better by the Australians as prisoners of war, than they had been as serving soldiers of the Japanese Army.

The Japanese mistook this kindness for weakness and fear, and held the Australians in contempt because of it. When the bugle sounded and they made their last banzai charge, they discovered, too late, that the same hands which tended their wounds and handed out blankets could also work a Vickers gun.

Today's terrorists are exactly the same, you see kindness and
compassion, they see nothing but weakness, fear and contempt.

By all means provide all the assistance you suggest, AFTER the last
terrorist has been sent to Paradise by a soldier”
 
fear thegov more than I do terrorists. Terrorism doesnt even cross my mind, it is not going to happen to me, ever in my life.
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The rise of Muslim radicalism is just accelerating what would otherwise be a predictable power grab by our Government over time. But it is possible for two threats, or more, to exist at the same time.

You live in Newberg, OR. I guess you think that if something Goes Wrong Bigtime in Portland you will be unaffected? Or if I-5 gets "interrupted?" You'll have more to worry about than traffic congestion from weekend vineyard-hoppers wanting to tipple some Cab.
 
Too bad the other guys see it differently.
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Who cares how they see it? They're insane.
They can have all the delusions of granduer that they want.. it doesnt mean anything since they dont have the power to make their goals a reality.
 
Quote:
I hope this doesn't get out of control; I'm hoping to have a honest discussion on this.

Then you should have included an option that reflects reality.
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Hi, It's 2006. Not 9/10/2001. I can see where you were confused.
 
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