War on Terror or WW III?

[Ezekiel]

But if they get modern weapons and we don't treat their threat realistically we can be gravely, if not mortally, wounded.

Frankly, I don't think that "they" can do any more to "us" than what we have already begun doing to ourselves due to the existence of a series of ongoing, metaphorical, bloody noses.

The United States, as a nation, is chopping off its head to save its face.

Incredibly, insanely, stupid.

They can only gravely, or mortally, wound us if we change our way of life in the face of them.

"Oh, wait..." :banghead:

 

[Nio]

I'll vote for WWIII

What is happening is NOT a war about terror. It's not a war about oil. Whether or not anybody realizes it, we are a number of years into the third world war - and WWIII is a religious war. The two most militant religious positions on the planet Judeao/Christianity and Islam are very specifically TRYING to bring about Armageddon. For the most part right now, it's a war about propaganda.

First of all, watch these videos:

http://www.seconddraft.org/streaming/pallywood.wmv

http://www.seconddraft.org/streaming/aldurah.wmv

The second series of videos is called The Power of Nightmares. They are each an hour long. Watch all three in order as you have time. These answer the question I've been asking since 9/11: If the terrorist are such a threat, then where are they? Why haven't they hit us? The answer is that they aren't as organized as we have been lead to believe.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1002626006461047517

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7930933565201168

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3649090417189127240

After you've watched the videos, read this:

http://www.alternet.org/story/39748/

It's going to get pretty scary in the next few years around here.

There is no doubt that almost all the governments of the world are run by religious zealots of some flavor. I really think it's coming to a head. In the next 20 years or so the Zionists and the Islamists are going to slaughter one another wholesale. At the end of it, they might figure out that they've been stupid all along. Not likely, though.

In the end, Radical Christians are going to dupe average people in to hooking it up with average people egged on by radical Muslims. Lots of people die on both sides. Mostly gullible people.

The anti-civilization is coming to a head.

Nio

 

[50 Freak]

I'm actually starting to think this will be the next "Crusade". Hell they already call us the Infidel crusaders...

Well instead of carrying a broadsword, our "crusaders" will carry M-16s.

Shame for all the middle eastern people that don't want war. Maybe they should have spoken up more instead of cheering when a bunch of sicko nut jobs strap on bombs and start blowing away women and children and causing planes full of innocent civilians to rain down on our buildings.

 

[Waitone]

World war? Nope!
Worldwide war? Yep!

A worldwide war will erupt when any of the following happen:

A>Iran decides to solve the Jewish problem again by trying to nuke Israel. All this nonsense about Iran developing nukes is merely good chess on the part of the Persians. The Persians already have nukes courtesy of the Russkies and delivery courtesy of the Norks.

or

B>Iran decides to emphasize its power by sinking tankers in the Straits of Hormuz. The world will not tolerate a shut down of a high percentage of petroleum supplies.

or

C>The arab world finally convinces the ignorant west that Persia (Iran) ain't arabic. Iran want regional hegemony and the arab states are not that impressed with the idea. Any number of scenarios can be constructed ending in Persian and Arab in conflict.

or

D>The US loses a few cities at which point the US public will demand the gloves coming off. We will then learn islamofascist terrorism is in fact state sponsored terrorism just like in the good ol' days of the cold war with the soviets. Suddenly we will learn and believe and then act on those states who allow islamofascists to prosper. At that point we will then truly carry the battle to the enemy. And then we will begin the great moral debates just waiting to commence.

 

[50 Freak]

You know, I thought by losing the Twin towers would be enough for the US to go balistic and nuke any country even closely associated with Osama. Saudi Arabia included.

Guess we'll have to lose some states before this America wakes up and realize we're at war....

 

[crazed_ss]

Luckily the people in charge of the nukes arent a bunch of irrational madmen.
EDIT: And how exactly are we going to "lose a few states" ..? If these guys have the capability to capture/destroy entire states, why are they wasting their time flying planes into buildings and blowing up trains?

 

[PRCalDude]

They're accomplishing everything they want to demographically. It's a world war when the West actually starts fighting back, i.e. repatriating Muslims to their home countries. Until then, they're ahead. Look at how our 'leaders' pander to CAIR et al. We have a real problem on our hands if that immigration bill passes and we start allowing them en masse into our country. Wait a minute, do I sound paranoid?

 

[ctdonath]

WWIII
- because everyone (including pacifists) is itching for a fight, and is just looking for an excuse.
- because enough extremists of a billion-plus-member religion have decided the other four-billion have just got to go.
- because the bored populace of first-world countries want something more amusing to fill the TV.
- because France, as some wags note, has already surrendered.
- because Israel, most fiercely interested in survival, surrendered.
- because standing armies need something to do, and nothing sufficiently interesting has happened for 60+ years.

 

[Shweboner]

Now that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. So all bad things come from the governmet? The government tells its own people when to attack it? I didn't even get the newsletter on that one.

I dont think there was a newsletter circulated buddy, so dont feel too left out.


There are many times in history that a government has done something horrible as a means to a particular end.

In this case? Tighter controls on the population, less rights? Patriot act anyone? A reason to roll into the ME? Take your pick, I am sure you can find something.

You guys are funny, always so quick to lash out at the gov and be so suspicious of their motives when they are trying to steal your guns... But turn a blind eye and swallow everything else they give you, even justify the taking of your other rights. As long as they give you a brown skinned foreign, non-christian enemy to fear... oh yeah and make it into a right/left issue to keep us divided. Sure, remember that they are the government and they are here to help.

Say what you want, think of me what you will. But mark my words, and spare me the emotional garbage.

 

[twenty711]

Quote:
I believe that any attacks on US soil happen with the approval and direction of some part of our gov.

Quote:
Now that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. So all bad things come from the governmet? The government tells its own people when to attack it? I didn't even get the newsletter on that one.



I dont think there was a newsletter circulated buddy, so dont feel too left out.

If there is no newsletter then how do we know when to attack? I have met people in the government at many levels and to be honest with you, I think your consipiricy theories are mostly just that, theories. Why? Our government is not clever enough to play all sides of the field and turn everyone against everyone in some kind of worl-wind that could end up as an end of the world end game scenerio. What kind of goal would that be for any human being really? I can understand world domination but ending the world is another story. We the people elect our officials and I'm sure that once they get into office they instantly change into some kind of monster that would turn in on itself with the help of those who elected them? If they were to do so, they would have certainly sent out a newsletter.

 

[Shweboner]

Well you keep an eye out for that newsletter, post me a copy as I am sure I am not on that mailing list.


Not that I made a lot of sense from your post, but I think you are asking why the gov, or those connected to it would plan/allow such atrocities?????

Power, Control, and Money... why else.

Unless you believe that these guys are in office for the greater good of the country and to spread world peace through the miracle of democracy?

Just like an addict has to be ready to accept treatment and quit their vices... people must be ready to accpet a democracy... freedom must be earned in order for it to be lasting. You cannot force a democratic system on a populace that is not prepared for it.... it wont work.

I love how people are fearful of an Iraqi civil war. I say let them have at it. Everyone has to go through it, we did it, just as most of the free world has.
The US/UN brokering peace deals is only a bandaid on a bullet hole... and if the alternative means killing eachother thats what it means... These people need to settle their differences amongst themselves,. as there will never be peace until they have fought and died for it.


We can go round and around with this trading arguments and one-liners, we should agree to disagree. I do not trust the gov's motives, means, or methods and that the ultimate goal is more power for them and more control over us. And as long as you have an enemy to fear and focus on, you are content with what it is the gov does in the name of defeating that enemy.


~

 

[mike101]

I would just like to point out, to anyone who hasn't seen the news for the last year or so, that Iraq is already having a civil-war. Remember Viet Nam, anyone? I wish we would get the hell out, and let them go at it.

Of course, we won't do that. It might interfere with the ability to pull that $2.50 a barrel oil out of the ground.

If Muslims can't get along with eachother, they will never get along with the west.

 

[cbsbyte]

Of course, we won't do that. It might interfere with the ability to pull that $2.50 a barrel oil out of the ground.

Where are you getting your info. It is more like $70+ for a barrel of oil. $2.50 is the price paid at the pump, though that is alot cheaper than I am paying.

 

[Gordon Fink]

Guess we’ll have to lose some states before this America wakes up and realize we’re at war.…

If we’re at war with terrorists, you would think that we might, you know, kill some terrorists or something … but that’s not what we’re doing.

~G. Fink

 

[Phetro]

You can't defeat ideas with bombs and guns.

Yes you can. No man, no idea. Boom! And if he has descendants who support his idea...boom. Remember...Carthage was once an idea.

Islamofascism will run its course. It will either prevail, or it will be destroyed. With the political center shifted as far left as it has, I doubt it will be destroyed. And thus, it is only a matter of time before we are overwhelmed by the numbers of our enemy on one side, and our own government taking our rights away "to fight them" on the other.

 

[mike101]

cbsbyte

It costs $2.50 to produce a barrel of oil in Iraq, $4.00in Saudi Arabia, and $10.00 in the US. $78.00 is what the oil companies are selling it to themselves for. I saw these figures on CNBC.

And those record profits keep rollin' in!

 

[gc70]

It costs $2.50 to produce a barrel of oil in Iraq, $4.00in Saudi Arabia, and $10.00 in the US. $78.00 is what the oil companies are selling it to themselves for. I saw these figures on CNBC.

Do you think Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and other countries are donating oil at the production cost so the oil companies can make bigger profits?

 

[mike101]

I am going by what I see on these market analysis reports. Evidently, the oil companies are in cahoots with these countries, since they did all of the development work that enables these countries to access their oil. Hence, they are "selling it to themselves". These are not my words. They are the words of the market analysts I am seeing.

Nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[Art Eatman]

mikeburk, the oil may cost the Saudis $4/bbl, but they sell to the oil companies at the contract price or the world spot price as a function of the grade of oil. "Sour", or high-sulfur oil sells for less than "light, sweet crude", for instance. The discount for sour is appreciably below the world spot price.

SFAIK, the daily Spot Price you read of is based on West Texas Intermediate.

In the US, the owner of the well sells to a refining company at either a contract price or spot price. The owner of the well pays the royalty to the owner of the land. (The driller might be the owner; he might not be, if he's sold the well or been on contract for the job. There are all manner of variations in the awl bidness.)

And now, back to the thread--and try to stay there? Pretty please?

Or else.

Art

 

[mike101]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[buzz_knox]

WWIII started when a certain group decided that the way to achieve its political goals was by killing/kidnapping anyone they chose, anywhere around the world. It's been going on since 1972. The only difference is that the rest of the world (outside of Israel who's been fighting this battle since at least '72) is actually fighting back rather than trying to negotiate or only playing hard ball when a nation-state makes themselves an easy target (i.e. Libya in '86).

 

[iapetus]

WWII didn't consist of Germany, Italy and Japan simply sending agents to commit acts of terror/sabotage/murder, and supplying a few militias to harrass a country who's people they hate.

Until Iran, AQ, etc form an overt allience, and have thousands of tanks and combat aircraft, and hundreds of thousands of troops storming across Europe, and carrier battle-groups threatening the US (or even just the capability to do so), I don't think it is valid to say we are currently in "WWIII" (or IV).

 

[twenty711]

Do you need thousands of tanks and planes to have a war? Or do you just need to kill/disable your enemy?

 

[bowfin]

/*If USA would just leave the middle east alone*/

Oh, for Cripes sake! Let's put a few more of these up...

...If the British would have left the middle east alone...
...If the French would have left the middle east alone...
...If the Italians would have left the middle east alone...
...If the oil companies would have left the middle east alone...
...If the Israelis would just leave the Arabs alone...
...If India would just leave the Kashmir alone...
...If Russia would just leave the Chechens alone...
...If the Serbs would just leave the Bosnians alone...
...If the Chinese would just leave Xinjiang province alone...
...If Indonesia would just leave the Tamil Tigers alone...
...If the Phillipines would just leave Abu Sayaff alone...
...If the infidels in the Sudan would just leave the Moslems alone...
...If the Somali government would just leave the Moslems alone...
...If the Ethiopian government would just leave the Moslems alone...
...If the Nigerian government would just leave the Moslems alone...
...If the Canadians would just leave Sharia alone...
...If the Lebanese would just leave Hezbollah alone...
...If the Palestinian Authority would just leave Hamas alone...
...If Australian tourists would just leave Bali alone...
...If Dutch journalists would just leave Islam alone...
...If Afghan women would just leave the Taliban alone...
...If Sunni Moslems would just leave the Shiites alone...
...If Shiite Moslems would just leave the Sunnis alone...
...If the Kurds would just leave...
...If Thomas Jefferson would just have left the Barbary Pirates alone...
...If Charles Martel would just have left the Moors alone...

I am sure I missed at least two dozen more, but I think the point is made.
By the looks of it, I'd say World War III, or IV, depending how you viewed the Cold War.

 

[Art Eatman]

I still wanna know what difference it makes what anybody calls this "Modern Problem". Jihadists want to kill those who are not Islamic. That's their publicly stated goal. They merely have priorities about who's first, and who's of lesser importance at any given time--and that varies with location and date.

I gotta believe it's a world war, since the Jihadists are at least philosophically allied and are working in the Philippines, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan and on west into Israel. Then add in western Europe and the US where Jihadist violence has occurred. Seems like a world-wide war to me.

Art