Warning from CMP

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mjsdwash said:
I just lectured a guy about this the other day. Not interested in what I had to say. Same thing about corrosion. The guy at the shop said it was M1 spec/Non corrosive. Pointed to the text of the M80 30 cal box it came in. Some people want to learn the hard way.
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Assumption is the mother of allot of heafty foul-ups.

anecdote: Though a Different weapon and caliber, Id seen a mint looking Polish M-44 Mosin with a bore that would scare you.
Id never seen rifling look like inerrupted thread of swiss cheese.
Also a Chinese sks paratrooper that had a rusted in place gas piston.
 
I have an M-1 Garand and I just reload for it using the Hornady data listed specifically for the M-1. I am not overly concerned about accuracy; I am more concerned about not damaging my rifle. I use it to bang away at steel plates. I do not need or expect even 1 MOA. Good enough is good enough in the old warhorse. I feel the same about my old Swedish Mauser. I want a safe load at the expense of accuracy.
 
BobABQ said:
I have an M-1 Garand and I just reload for it using the Hornady data listed specifically for the M-1. I am not overly concerned about accuracy; I am more concerned about not damaging my rifle. I use it to bang away at steel plates. I do not need or expect even 1 MOA. Good enough is good enough in the old warhorse. I feel the same about my old Swedish Mauser. I want a safe load at the expense of accuracy.
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You sure won't damage anything with the hornady data...thats training wheels load data. You can't duplicate milsurp loads with it.
 
Jeremy2171 said:
You sure won't damage anything with the hornady data...thats training wheels load data. You can't duplicate milsurp loads with it.
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I don't disagree with your statement but I am ok with training wheels load data for a couple of my old rifles. I admit that I am relativity new to reloading but my overriding goal with my M-1 is to not damage it while shooting. For me it is a fun gun to bang away at steel plates, nothing more and nothing less.
 
BobABQ said:
I don't disagree with your statement but I am ok with training wheels load data for a couple of my old rifles. I admit that I am relativity new to reloading but my overriding goal with my M-1 is to not damage it while shooting. For me it is a fun gun to bang away at steel plates, nothing more and nothing less.
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Not a thing wrong with that.
I myself shoot for accuracy and also like to duplicate milsurp ammo. I find my M1 ball clones quite pleasant to shoot and very accurate...Sub 2 MOA or better in just about any decent fitting service grade garand. Probably be even better in a dedicated match rifle.
 
I don't shoot my M1 that often and when I do I like to let friends shoot it. With sellers asking $3 a round that won't be happening.
 
Jeremy2171 said:
Some do..but there is no real need for it. Rem Corelokt 150s are a great substitute. Or 165s or 180s and even 220s should you want to go after bear.
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That can't be right. To shoot those without battering the Garand up you'd need the adjustable gas key I believe.
 
SunnySlopes said:
I've still got ammo I bought from CMP when I purchased my Garand. When I finish that off, I plan to replace the necessary Garand part which will allow me to use modern ammo.

But the name of that part escapes me. Operating rod?
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Gas Plug. There are aftermarket plugs that allow shooting modern ammo.
 
Jeremy2171 said:
Nope....not needed
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Not to function, no. But I've read articles and even threads here stating the ported gas screw is needed if your consistently firing modern ammo through a Garand.

"Permanent damage can occur while shooting standard factory loaded 30-06 ammunition in the M1 Garand,” said Dave Emary, Hornady Chief Ballistic Scientist. “Typical factory loads contain propellants that when fired, result in port pressures and gas volumes that are too high, causing violent stress to the rifle's operating rod, bolt, and receiver.”

https://www.guns.com/news/2011/08/1...nd-diet-or-what-to-feed-your-m1-garand-part-i

https://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition

Do you have anything to support your claim disputing the above? Not being argumentative, I'd just like to hear your other half of it.
 
Mn Fats said:
Not to function, no. But I've read articles and even threads here stating the ported gas screw is needed if your consistently firing modern ammo through a Garand.

"Permanent damage can occur while shooting standard factory loaded 30-06 ammunition in the M1 Garand,” said Dave Emary, Hornady Chief Ballistic Scientist. “Typical factory loads contain propellants that when fired, result in port pressures and gas volumes that are too high, causing violent stress to the rifle's operating rod, bolt, and receiver.”

https://www.guns.com/news/2011/08/1...nd-diet-or-what-to-feed-your-m1-garand-part-i

https://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition

Do you have anything to support your claim disputing the above? Not being argumentative, I'd just like to hear your other half of it.
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Actual testing...



part 2



FYI Dave Emary is the guy who blew up lots of carcanos with the Hornady .268 bullet he designed..incorrectly...I mean he couldn't even copy a 100 yr old bullet design. Good greasing and good oprod springs will keep the oprod velocity to an acceptable level. If you are really concerned...get some Wolf springs...they are about 10% stronger than USGI and slow the oprod even more,
 
Jeremy2171 said:
Actual testing...



part 2



FYI Dave Emary is the guy who blew up lots of carcanos with the Hornady .268 bullet he designed..incorrectly...I mean he couldn't even copy a 100 yr old bullet design. Good greasing and good oprod springs will keep the oprod velocity to an acceptable level. If you are really concerned...get some Wolf springs...they are about 10% stronger than USGI and slow the oprod even more,
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Interesting. Thank you.
 
Jeremy2171 said:
Actual testing...



part 2



FYI Dave Emary is the guy who blew up lots of carcanos with the Hornady .268 bullet he designed..incorrectly...I mean he couldn't even copy a 100 yr old bullet design. Good greasing and good oprod springs will keep the oprod velocity to an acceptable level. If you are really concerned...get some Wolf springs...they are about 10% stronger than USGI and slow the oprod even more,
Click to expand...


The Church of the Speeding Op-rod.

Op-rod speed - is a fraud - perpetrated by those ignorant of Physics.

"Garand Safe" ammo - produces Port Pressures in the M1 rifle w/in spec.

That's all.

The M1 Garand and Commercial Ammunition

The M1 Garand Gas Cycle

To interpret the data provided, we will need to define the gas cycle. The gas cycle on the M1 Garand can be broken up into several distinct stages. Each stage affects how the pressure in the gas cylinder is changing. The Gas cylinder and operating rod assembly on the M1 are lossy. That is to say, gas is always flowing past the gas piston when the pressure in the gas cylinder is greater than the pressure outside of the gas cylinder. The following stages will deal with gas flowing into the gas cylinder. A graph of a typical gas cycle when using M2 ball (HXP) is shown in Figure 2.

Stage 0: The first stage consists of the bullet traveling up the barrel, compressing the air in front of it. The bullet moves up the barrel faster than the gas can escape from it. This causes the pressure to rises in the barrel. This stage ends when the bullet has moved up the barrel and is blocking the gas port. The compressive force of the bullet traveling up the barrel combined with gas blow-by will pressurize the gas cylinder to approximately 10psi. This initial pressure transient is what we use to start the data acquisition process.

Stage 1: This stage is defined as the bullet having moved forward of the gas port, but is still in the barrel. This stage is responsible for the highest rate of change of pressure over time (dp/dt). However, it is also the shortest of the stages, lasting approximately 46 microseconds.

Stage 2: The bulk of the gas transfer will occur during this stage. The bullet has left the barrel and the barrel is now rapidly depressurizing. However, the pressure in the barrel is still greater than that in the gas cylinder; therefore, gas continues to flow from the barrel into the gas cylinder.

Stage 3: Pressure equalization has occurred in this stage. It marks the point of peak pressure in the gas cylinder. From this point forward, gas will be flowing from the gas cylinder back into the barrel. Gas is also flowing past the piston and exiting the gas cylinder as previously mentioned.

Stage 4: The gas cylinder is depressurizing. This stage normally lasts approximately three milliseconds.

Stage 5: The M1 Gas cycle is now complete. The gas cylinder has depressurized. The operating rod has reached its peak momentum. At this point the operating rod has moved rearward approximately 3/8 of an inch. The operating rod will coast rearward using the kinetic energy it gained to perform functions such as: unlocking the bolt, extracting the empty cartridge case, cocking the hammer, and compressing the operating rod spring.

index.php

Everything else - is religion.


Where is the mass on the Op-rod?

And where does the Op-rod bend in relation to it?

And by what force?

Enjoy your crayons.




GR
 
Mn Fats said:
It does look like garandandgear was much more scientific. Anyway, I'll keep loading mine to ball specs and let you guys shoot what works for you.
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Oh I agree its more scientific due to more expensive gear. However the testing is only as good as the data you get out of it. Since they used substandard M2 ball as their baseline then it gives the appearance that commercial ammo is way "hot" and milsurp is "weak". If they had tested some of the "warmer" M2 ball loads you would see different results.

Its possible they DID test warmer ammo...and it showed that their product wasn't needed. But that wouldn't help them prove that you need to bu their product...would it?

Remember the ones saying you NEED to buy it are giving you the data that "proves" you NEED it. With significant test data left out of it...
 
Jeremy2171 said:
Remember the ones saying you NEED to buy it are giving you the data that "proves" you NEED it. With significant test data left out of it...
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Very wise words.

I inherited my M1 Garand years ago from my Grandpa and mainly pull it out for other people to shoot who are curious about that particular firearm, so I dont claim to know anything.

Interesting to hear the other side of the argument for a change vs just "get the ported gas screw".
 
Mn Fats said:
Very wise words.

I inherited my M1 Garand years ago from my Grandpa and mainly pull it out for other people to shoot who are curious about that particular firearm, so I dont claim to know anything.

Interesting to hear the other side of the argument for a change vs just "get the ported gas screw".
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When you start doing testing and applying science to it...it's not as fragile as the internet leads you to believe.
 
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