Riomouse911
Member
Since they discontinued the Master Chef line, adding matching pieces to my collection is limited to buying used or “new old stock” myself
. Stay safe.
Was I Wronged?
- Thread starter JCooperfan1911
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. Stay safe.
Many posts, no price. How much was it ? IMHO, a misrepresentation, at 200$ is far more forgivable than a misrepresentation, at 700$. As someone else stated, if you filed your 4473, and took possession of the rifle, your bargaining position may be compromised.
md7
Member
My expectation for an unissued SKS would be that it’s serviceable, finish is in better than average condition and mostly intact, and the stock to be in good shape. Personally I’d be ok with a few dings here and there from handling marks. That’s just my opinion.
It would make sense to me, if I were selling, to make a general statement that some rifles may exhibit varying degrees of fit/finish/handling etc.
It would make sense to me, if I were selling, to make a general statement that some rifles may exhibit varying degrees of fit/finish/handling etc.
wiscoaster
Member
Yes, I'm curious, too. Based on what I've seen of the current market, $500 seems to be flashing in my mind as a ballpark number dividing "let it ride" from "go to war".
I don't see a thing wrong with that rifle. I don't see any nicks, or scratches, and if there were some it's a battle rifle, not a show piece. I see some discolored wood from the cosmoline and natural imperfections in the wood. I'm sure he picked the one with the nicest wood to show a pic of and I'm sure he cleaned it. For a 50 year old battle rifle that sure looks LNIB to me. I'm sure there were many in worse shape issues new to troops back in the day.
ApacheCoTodd
member
Two things from my perspective - IF the marks shown would even matter to me.
One, I'd like to see as exact a duplication of the seller's photo showing your rifle. Not hyper focused on the marring.
Two, Look at a search of "Yugoslav SKS crate" or something to that effect.
Were you "wronged"? Probably not. Though the seller's posting - by your description - was ill-handled.
Todd.
1KPerDay
Member
Betcha a nickel there's language in the listing that says "pic is not representative of the exact rifle you will receive" or something. Clean up the stock and enjoy your rifle. Looks like it's in great shape to me.
LNIB when it left the factory assembly line. Or LNIB when it was delivered and ripped out of a crate near a battle ground in Africa during an invasion? Seems like a silly term to use for a military rifle. I doubt if it has ever been in what we think of as a "box" ,
ApacheCoTodd
member
That's great!
Makes me think of another LNIB scenario:
Maybe fought a war or two.
Sent back for re-work.
Rebuilt *as new*.
Sat in a rack.
Boxed up un-re-issued and sold through DCM for $19.95.
Like New In Box!
Todd.
While calling that like new would be wrong if you were talking about a modern commercial rifle, it seems in my experience that condition is graded on a different scale when talking about surplus firearms. You know the saying "she looks attractive...for her age," well that's the way a lot of people rate surplus as well. For a 50 plus year old military surplus rifle that has probably been stored in poor conditions for decades it looks like what most would advertise as excellent. Over the long term the caked on cosmoline soaks into the wood and makes those dark spots. Assuming you didn't pay a really high price you aren't going to find another Yugo SKS in as good a condition these days. Lesson learned. Ask for photos of the actual gun next time.
1948CJ2A
Member
If you purchased the rifle to be a show piece and hang on the wall (or something similar) and you gave a premium for this expectation and communicated with the seller prior to the transaction of your expectations based on the description, then yes you were wronged.
If you purchased the rifle expecting a nice example at a budget price and you didn't communicate with the seller prior to the transaction, I think your case gets a little muddied.
If you purchased the rifle expecting a nice example at a budget price and you didn't communicate with the seller prior to the transaction, I think your case gets a little muddied.
JCooperfan1911
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No there isn’t.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
I purchased a .22 Mossberg on an auction site. The pictures looked great. What they didn't show were the missing parts that were not shown. It said functional. It wasn't. I sold a K98 barrel on ebay. The person who received the barrel said it didn't fit and ebay forced me to take it back. The barrel returned wasn't the barrel that I sent him. The markings were different and it wasn't in as good of shape. The point is that their are those who will cheat, others will just be less specific. Some just haven't thought things through. How is one to know? By the after the sale interaction.
1KPerDay
Member
Please post a link to the auction
giggitygiggity
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I think your reply was perfect. You were wronged. I would not accept that. My biggest pet peeve with companies is advertising (description and/or photos) guns as being in a certain condition, but the actual gun received not being accurately depicted in the advertisement. If you are selling a bunch of a certain item, you advertise to the worst conditioned example in the lot; that way buyers receive items in the advertised condition or better and they are satisfied.
It’s been a few years since I last bought from Classic Firearms because they pulled those shenanigans and did not accept responsibility or try to make it right. As such, I happily pay a slightly higher price to AIM Surplus as the countless guns I’ve got from them have always been in at least as good a condition as advertised.
It’s been a few years since I last bought from Classic Firearms because they pulled those shenanigans and did not accept responsibility or try to make it right. As such, I happily pay a slightly higher price to AIM Surplus as the countless guns I’ve got from them have always been in at least as good a condition as advertised.
shoobe01
Member
As stated, LNIB is sorta meaningless for the firearm the OP bought. If the auction actually said it was a case of rifles, that's even more of a clue. Mil issue rifles of this issue were never new in any box, and WILL have rack wear from at least the transport crate, likely other racks they have been placed on for inspection every 10 years as that's how armies work.
That's authentic wear for such a rifle to me. Again, price dependent and if it's supposed to be some amazingly pristine unmarked magic version with commensurate pricing, maybe gripe. etc. Else, it's a milsurp gun.
I'd also check the rest of the condition to make sure. If it's unused, then internals should look that way. I've bought a couple guns that were very much shot more than claimed and that's very, very obvious immediately if you know the platform.
That's authentic wear for such a rifle to me. Again, price dependent and if it's supposed to be some amazingly pristine unmarked magic version with commensurate pricing, maybe gripe. etc. Else, it's a milsurp gun.
I'd also check the rest of the condition to make sure. If it's unused, then internals should look that way. I've bought a couple guns that were very much shot more than claimed and that's very, very obvious immediately if you know the platform.
No surplus rifle seller should ever use the term "LNIB". That's misleading since it is rarely possible since the rifles are racked or crated and have to be put into boxes to ship/sell.
That said, no surplus rifle buyer should believe it either knowing that surplus rifles, even unissued ones, are handled a few times going into and out of crates, onto and off of racks, back into crates and then boxes.
It would be reasonable to demand an exchange for a rifle closer to what was pictured and described, but understand that buying a military surplus rifle over the internet without actual item pictures is fraught with risk.
That said, no surplus rifle buyer should believe it either knowing that surplus rifles, even unissued ones, are handled a few times going into and out of crates, onto and off of racks, back into crates and then boxes.
It would be reasonable to demand an exchange for a rifle closer to what was pictured and described, but understand that buying a military surplus rifle over the internet without actual item pictures is fraught with risk.
JCooperfan1911
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I’m not sure if I am allowed, let me check the rules.
Gtscotty
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That was my thoughts as well. Are there any dings, cracks, or stuff like that, or is it just some oil staining like in the pic? How is the exterior metal and the bore? That honestly looks like a clean SKS, compared to most I've seen and especially the pig I had. If it's just a little staining, I'd think that might still qualify as LNIB, given that we are talking LNIB battle rifles manufactured 55-60 years ago.
Edit: Looked at the ad, Wow! For $900 I guess I'd be a little miffed that they gave me the ugly duckling, especially with all the pristine pictures they posted up. For that price if they had a variety of stock grades, they really probably should have posted a couple pictures of the range of asthetics you might receive instead of just 14 pics of the belle of the ball. I'll be interested to see what they say about the refund.
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BreechFace
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I assume you are upset about the rash on the stock in front of the internal magazine about 1-1.5 inches?
I would be a little miffed myself, given the price you paid for the SKS; but at the same time on an online auction it is probably prudent to do some due diligence with some communication about the actual rifle you will be sent. Requesting that they pull a rifle for you and get some actual pictures of the rifle you intend to buy.
I get it though, you were expecting a premium SKS, because of the premium price you paid. If I were the seller asking the price I am, I would have to see your point. And based off the description I read on the ad there really wasn't any language stating the rifle pictured is not representative of exact rifle you will receive; but at the same time they did say they "pulled one rifle out and removed the cosmoline to take the picture." So as a buyer I would have to go into the purchase knowing I'm getting a picture of "one" of the rifles in the crate, and wood was a living organism; and lets be honest the furniture for SKS's probably wasn't being hand selected for lack of impurities.
My honest opinion is that it's a bummer you got a blemish on your stock but at the same time there is some risk buying online and not in person; and one should be doing their due diligence before the purchase to do their best to tip the scales in their favor for getting what one expects.
Found the gunbroker ad. All one has to do is search "yugoslavian sks" and the picture the OP posted is one of the first ads.
Description from ad on gunbroker
Here we have unissued SKSs fresh out of the crate. These are as nice as they come, unfired, unhandled, and numbers matching with all accessories. We are pulling them out of the crate in consecutive order so if you order multiples, they will also be in consecutive order. We took a couple of minutes to wipe the cosmoline off of one to show how clean these are.
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Mosin77
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The one you got is still darn nice for what they are -50 year old service rifles. My level of frustration would be entirely dependent on just how much of a premium I paid for this gun. In this market? $500 is a fair/good deal. $600? I’d be a little peeved but really in a couple years you’ll be able to sell it for a small profit if not before. $700+? I’d demand a refund/leave scathing negative feedback if buyer doesn’t comply. $850+? I’d spend my money on Brownings and not surplus rifles.
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