Weapon for person trained in Fencing saber?

[kBob]

I note several folks have expressed interest in Katanas that are "useable" and assume these folks are actually thinking home defense with a weapon they trained with in oriental martial arts.

So who sells "useable" bladed weapons suitable for those trained with the fencing saber of Europe? I know competition foils are very light weight so assume one would have to almost retrain to handle the weight of a live blade, but this would seem to be true for some who have trained with Katanas I have seen in Karate classes.

Thoughts?

-kBob

 

[Schwing]

IMHO I don't feel like the skills translate to real life self defense. I fenced for years in my younger life and still have never pursued it.

 

[Gtscotty]

Homeowner: "En Garde you dastardly fiend!"
Intruder: " Bang!"

The End.

 

[kayak-man]

Don't quote me on it, but I think the "swords" used in kendo are fairly accurate in regards to weight and balance.

That being said, I think self defense is a very different animal. Check out some of the stuff guys like SouthNarc are doing with pkal style knives.

This may be the blind leading the blind, but I feel like fencing with a saber is more like the long range rifle shooting: it's what you do against a similarly equipped opennent when you have distance, but I don't think many people would prefer an M14 for an entangled fight.

 

[glistam]

I think it's a fair statement that any martial art at least "helps" with defense, even if they don't actually translate. I'm considerably more coordinated and have better cardio endurance after training in HEMA than I was before. Doesn't mean I'm going to engage an home invader with a spadone if there are better options available at the specific time and place.

 

[Sunray]

The "swords" used in kendo are split bamboo sticks. Same idea as the rattan "swords" used by the Society for Creative Anachronism.
The fencing saber is a piece of sporting kit that has no relation whatsoever to a fighting saber other than the shape of its hilt. Sabres are slashing weapons for guys on great big, mean, horses. And parades.
A Katana that is "useable" is desired by people who watch way too much TV.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

A Katana that is "useable" is desired by people who watch way too much TV.

Hey now, I have several "useable" swords. From a massive Flamberge, through Rapiers, Gladius, Katana and lots of bits in between. All of them are live blade fighting implements. Most of them far older than I am

Okay, I admit... I may be caught humming "Masters of the Universe" while tending to the blades...

Of course, one wonders why chose a sword for home defense at all when more effective items are readily available... Unless one lives in a country that does not allow the private ownership of firearms. Personally, if I had to use one of my blades for fighting inside the house, I wouldn't go with a katana, saber, cutlass etc. I would want something shorter and more maneuverable. Something for poking instead of swinging. I'd be reaching for my Gladius if I had to pick a black for indoor work.

 

[hso]

Most of these folks are talking out their backsides that look for SD/HD japanese swords since they never train at all.

For saber fencers I recommend bowies with sharpened swadges.

 

[Gordon]

I fenced saber in college in the middle 60s (where I was known as "fierce" ) and true I always carried big bowies after that but the various short swords like a Busse AK 47 or my favorite Mad Dog Saxon seem about ideal (18" to 23" blades ) if I had to use one. I do use the oak boken to train with and have torn up a few heavy bags over the years
http://www.alljapanbudogu.com/all-japan-red-oak-made-in-japan-suburi-bokken/

 

[Piraticalbob]

For someone who has trained in fencing, a smallsword or colichemarde would be the closest true weapon alternative. Cold Steel sells both of them, as do other manufacturers.

As has been said already, a firearm is a better alternative, unless you have cogent reasons not to own one.

 

[9mmepiphany]

For saber fencers I recommend bowies with sharpened swadges.

I might also suggest that the OP look into the techniques taught by James Keating

 

[lemaymiami]

Here's a thought in a different direction for anyone with even a little experience in the fencing/sabre sports. Instead of something similar I'd recommend you consider a walking cane made of green bamboo or rattan. It can go anywhere you can, is not considered a "weapon" yet is very fast in the hands, darned nearly un-breakable, and can be used for both offense and defense. As my long departed Dad (retired Army with a career that spanned WWII all the way through two tours in Vietnam...) put it you could manage a half dozen strikes with one before your opponent could even react. He kept his just inside the front door out of sight... If any have doubts, find some video on kendo in action.

 

[cluttonfred]

Sword cane?

 

[rcmodel]

Against the law in just about any place you could mention is the USA.

rc

 

[kBob]

Thanks to "the Usual Suspects" that did pay attention to the fact that this is the non-firearm weapons board for some good answer and leads.

I would be thrilled if the folks in question could be left with access to the rifles, handguns and shotguns they have experience with.......but since they legally can not have access to those without me present I was looking for something else.

I can not believe I had such a brain fart as to not think about combat knives being used for the same sort of thrusting attacks as with the saber in the salon. Just got fixated on the long blades.

9mm,

Interesting fellow you suggested I look into. Especially since he seems to think saber training is a good idea :-> I suspect that rapid advance he speaks of in one interview is exactly what is being worked on in the saber class in question this week.

x-Miami cop,

I do keep my canes about and I wonder if I can talk the kid's fencing master into having his business partner that teaches a Vietnamese stick form that uses sticks about the size of my canes to do a few demos for his fencing classes.

HSO,

Actually come to think of it they do have access to a fair sized bowie that has a top "false" edge straighter than most and sharpened. It is actually used to prepare kindling for the fire place and sits on the mantel.

Since we seem to be talking piercing attacks with knives and knives in the home rather than carried, anyone see a problem with an F/S knife? My original is gone but I did buy a cheap knockoff and sharpen it the same as the F/S I carried in my enlisted days, every thing but the last inch of the blade nearest the guard.

-kBob

 

[9mmepiphany]

A couple of points:

a top "false" edge straighter than most and sharpened

Since we seem to be talking piercing attacks

Just because you'd sharpen the top "false edge" doesn't mean you intend to use it in a "piercing attack"...it happens to very very useful for a "back cut"

anyone see a problem with an F/S knife

If you are referring to the "British Commando" knife...I think the tip snapping off, might preset a problem on a knife designed for stabbing. Maybe the lack of index with the round grip.

I like the feel of the A/F a bit better and I like the balance better...but I wouldn't carry it as a defensive edged weapon

 

[kBob]

9mm,

What I was trying to say about the bowie style was that with that straighter false edge the knife in question has more of a point than is sometimes on such knives. Bo Randall said that his #1 design , which he got angry if anyone called a bowie, was easier to sharpen on the false edge than bowies and provided more of a point. To be honest the only curved false edge I thought useful was the curved back of an original SOG knife I used a little bit. In that case that back was not for fighting, but provided a curved hand sycle blade for removing vegetation. It worked very well for that allowing one to carve a little tunnel of sorts through heavy stuff down to where you could see out without being seen. Straight, I like if the knife is to be used for fighting.

As to the "Commando Knife" Which European references often called the F/S knife yet most US sources call the S/F knife. The reason I carried it was that in places it gets cold we found that knives like the KaBar USMC knife and the little air crew survival bowie had difficulty piercing through heavy wool layers of clothing. The F/S had much less resistance punching straight through.

I mentioned how I sharpened the F/S blade down to with in one inch of the guard, that is how one provides for indexing with the F/S and such round grip designs.....it allows you to check with your thumb to see how the blade is oriented without slicing the pad of your thumb. Interesting that when I did an early review of the Phrobis bayonet that became the current US issue that indexing with that round grip was a concern I spoke to the designer about before going to press. It was my belief that for GI Joe the grip of the M5A1 through M7 bayonets was more useful than the broom handle shaped current issue. The designer pointed out one could check index with the thumb by finding the hole for bayonet mounting.......

I can understand the concern about breaking a tip with the F/S knife, but I believe most broken and reshaped tips are the result of some yahoo throwing the things.

I would not carry an F/S on the street for a defensive knife, it was not a defensive knife when I carried mine and I was in uniform at the time. For a person in the home that can not access firearms I think the more I do think about it might be just fine.

-kBob

 

[hso]

Advice to pick a well balanced "stick" and practice will come more easily to saber fencers. Grab a "waster" and you'll be familiar with it, if not the weight. Graduate to a shorter version on the saber and you'll have fun transferring those earlier skills to it.

OTOH, out of the house the stick and knife are all you can practically carry. Concentrating on them might save time.

 

[lemaymiami]

That old "British commando knife" has had numerous knock-offs over the years some were pretty good, many weren't worth much at all. Back when this was a duty item all those years ago the lads being taught to use one were told that "the thumb gives control". You held the handle but kept your thumb on the flat of the blade right next to the handle....

As my long departed Dad used to say "you have to get entirely too close if you're going to use a knife". I'd have to be pretty desperate to use a knife - but it's always a possibility...

 

[Sav .250]

Homeowner: "En Garde you dastardly fiend!"
Intruder: " Bang!"

The End.

You hit the nail right on the head!

 

[MartinS]

Machete, get it dirty and keep it that way, looking like a yard tool.

 

[jlr1962]

There can be only one!!

Just kidding of course.

I think a sword would be as good as a bat against an aggressor, if you had the skill to use it.

I would be better off with a bat.

 

[jdduffy]

any old military rifle with a bayonet !!!!!

 

[JShirley]

I have a Swamp Rat Waki wakizashi in my bedroom, and would feel very confident using it defensively, but would much prefer one of my CZ 75s or (even better) my AR-15.

I disagree with some of the previous comments: fencing gives the skill to cover distance instantly, and the experience to hit an exact target while doing it. I believe it to be the most under-rated MA available in the US.

"The real self defense starts in the US legal system." It's a good idea to carefully consider how your defensive tool choices may be viewed by responding law enforcement and potential jurors. This is why a bat is preferable to a sword, a kitchen knife to an ax, etc. Unless you are chopping wood when attacked, using an axe to defend your home will seem bloodthirsty and "off".

 

[jrdolall]

Indiana Jones anyone?

Firearms give distance. If you're not at distance, large blades are more dangerous.