Webley .38/200?

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Panzerschwein

Panzerschwein

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I've wanted a top break, DOUBLE ACTION (not single action only like Schofields) revolver for some time. I'm sad that no maker offers a modern one, but it appears that you can get a .38/200 (aka .38 S&W) Webley on the used market. You can also get a .455 Webley, but I'm leaning towards the .38/200 so I can just shoot commercial .38 S&W in it since I don't reload.

So how do the .38 Webleys hold up? Are they durable, or prone to problems? I want to make it a shooter and am just wanting some feedback before I buy one. Any tips on getting a good one?

Thanks!
 
Webley or Enfield?

I believe the Enfields predominated in WWII period, and are the hammerless guns.

I haven't heard details of holding up in use shooting extensively, but am interested to hear. I think they are interesting guns with historic value and character. Not quite the level of finish and fit of parts like we are used to in the States, but functional and I believe basically reliable. Ive handled them and messed with them some. Id like to have one. The 455s are also interesting, but usually more expensive and harder to get ammo for. Reloading can deal with some of that.

You really should get the non-reloading thing fixed. They've got pills or cream for that now.
 
The Webley is a good solid gun that will handle the .38 S&W with ease.

Some Webley revolvers made during the war were crudely finished. I've seen some stamped "War finish" on the right side. Terrible bluing on these but the guns functioned fine.

DA pull was heavy. SA was like shooting a Glock.
 
I had a couple of Webley Mark IVs including a nicely blued four inch barrel model once owned by the Metro Police in London and so marked.
Sturdy guns. I fired old mil spec FMJ ammo in mine. Not sure if that is still available.
 
the top .38 Webley was one of last made in late 50s . It is VERY well made, the design is a little cruder than say a Colt or S&W but it is strong as any top break made and can withstand up to 20K psai loads I am sure if it was fed such . The DA is about like a Colt D frame but the SA is heavier. Mine is decent accurate for what it is and the crudeness of the sites. The cross bolt safety is a bit over the edge, but California DOJ would like it . I shoot Fiocchi ammo in all my .38S&Ws and they do have FMJ and Lead loads.
006-4.gif
 
Last edited:
Bottom Mark VI is cut and has a 1927 stamped on it for some odd reason. I shoot .45 auto Rim in it. The top gun is a Singapore police gun, mine looked unissued when I got it 25 years ago, frome what I can tell it was made in late 1959. The center .455 is a 1914 marked Mark V , I shoot Fiocchi ammo in it and have owned it 30+ years . It shoots dead on at 50 feet with Fiocchi loads .
https://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-5/20095914463-webley.pdf
 
I picked up a post WW2 .38/200 Webley about 10 years ago. It's surplus from some police/military organization, but the markings at the bottom of the butt are crossed out so I can't ID. The gun is very well made and finished, much better than the WW2 examples I've seen. I rarely shoot it but with my reloads it's quite accurate at 7 yards. Not the trigger of a Smith and Wesson K frame, but OK.
 
Gordon

Nice collection of Webleys. I had a Mk.IV which I picked up at a flea market many years ago. It was a "WAR TIME" finish model and was very rough, with a number of sharp unfinished edges on it. Double action was very heavy but the single action was halfway decent. It's still in the family as I lent it to my brother when they were having a number of break-ins where he lived.
 
Post-war Webley MkIVs are sturdy, reliable revolvers. Shooting commercial .38S&W ammo in them is better than nothing but does not meet original power or accuracy of military .380/200 ammo. Most commeercial .38S&W is made to shoot in the old top-break revolvers from the turn of the century and kept low pressure to avoid damaging these. I have shot commercial .38 S&W ammo from my Webley over my Chrony and found velocities of around 480-500 fps. Accuracy was non existent. If you can find some old .38 Colt "New Police" ammo you will have a close copy of British military ammo. The Webley's sights are set up for the 200 grain slug moving at about 680-700 fps. There are occasional sources of military .380/200 ammo as India and a few small Asian countries still arm their police forces with this caliber revolvers. Without reloading your supply of effective ammo is severely restricted. This might be a "niche-business" for an enterprising fellow with the correct licenses and marketing skills as there are a lot of old Webley .38s around.
 
Very nice tp hear, all.

I think I might also get a cheap Lee Loader reloading tool so I could try to make .38-200 loads for it.

But if that, then maybe a .455 model? Hmm... I wonder which to pick? Are the .455 Webleys durable? I now am questioning my original commitment to the smaller caliber since reading this thread.
 
Webly MkIV models were originally chambered for the .455 Webley cartridge. While "somewhat" available, they are difficult to find and only sporadically offered by Fioci. A large percentage of the Webley MkIVs imported into the US in the 50s and 60s were "converted" to take US .45ACP cartridges using half-moon clips. One could also fire .45ACP-Auto-Rim cartridges if you could find them. The regular use of .45ACP cartridges in the Webley revolver usually results in premature barrel-latch failure as the .45ACP cartridge operates at 18K to 20K PSI, way more than the .455 Webley's 12.5K chamber pressure. Folks who shoot their converted .455 Webleys with .45ACP cartridges most often reload them to produce pressures in the 12K range to avoid damaging thier guns. Firing commercial .45ACP rounds in the Webley is just like only using "Proof-loads." (Webley.455s were Proofed at 18K). If you are restricted to commercial ammo, the .455 Webley revolver will prove to be very expensive to shoot. Otherwise, it is a very reliable and rugged handgun that would serve quite well for home defense.
 
Cooldill said:
I think I might also get a cheap Lee Loader reloading tool so I could try to make .38-200 loads for it.
Click to expand...

The little Lee Loaders are a good way to start reloading, they are slow, but let you get an understanding of how it all works without a large initial investment. I started with one (then several) a long time ago. I never got rid of them, despite not having used them in ages. Having a compact, portable way to make usable ammo isn't all bad.
 
I have a 1918 Webley Mk VI .455 that was cut for .45 ACP with moon clips. When I got it the cylinder was bulged, but I was lucky enough to find a replacement and get it fitted. Handloading to appropriate pressures is important.

With the design of the Mk VI, a hollow base bullet is best for accuracy. Bill Benny in Pennsylvania casts a couple of nice types -
[email protected]

The British Militaria Forum has lots of good info - http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/

Fun pistols.
 
Curator said:
Webly MkIV models were originally chambered for the .455 Webley cartridge. While "somewhat" available, they are difficult to find and only sporadically offered by Fioci. A large percentage of the Webley MkIVs imported into the US in the 50s and 60s were "converted" to take US .45ACP cartridges using half-moon clips. One could also fire .45ACP-Auto-Rim cartridges if you could find them. The regular use of .45ACP cartridges in the Webley revolver usually results in premature barrel-latch failure as the .45ACP cartridge operates at 18K to 20K PSI, way more than the .455 Webley's 12.5K chamber pressure....
Click to expand...

Curator, you are thinking of the Webley Mark IV British Army Service revolver, which was a .455 as you say. The OP means Webley's Mark IV 38 caliber commercial revolver, which was bought in large numbers by the British Army in the Second World War, and which was produced for 30+ years after the war for the police forces of various Commonwealth and former British imperial possessions.

I had a Webley Mark IV 38 in the early 1980's, and it was a good gun. With 38 S&W ammunition, it did not shoot to point of aim, but it has been so long that I cannot remember if it shot high or low! Mine had a shortened barrel, which was done to quite a few of them to stimulate sales on the US market.

Sarge7402 is right about the Indian 32 Webleys, but they are unavailable in the US. I have an Indian Ordnance Factory clone of an Inglis 9mm High Power, and it is an excellent gun, but I have seen a YouTube video of an Indian shooter trying out his new Webley 32, and IIRC, he got 2 misfires out of 6 rounds - not exactly confidence building.
 
Monac,

You are correct, fumble-fingers me typed IV where i meant MK VI, the .WWI era 455 caliber revolver. However, I do have an original "Boer War" Webley MkIV that was made in .476/45 Webley caliber. The OP was asking about .455 Webley revolvers after the comments about the .38/200 Webleys. I hope I answered his question

"But if that, then maybe a .455 model? Hmm... I wonder which to pick? Are the .455 Webleys durable? I now am questioning my original commitment to the smaller caliber since reading this thread."

Cooldill, Today at 10:19 AMReport
 
Thanks for your civil correction, Curator. If I was half as smart as I thought I was....well, I'd have a nice Webley Mark VI, at least.
 
British top break revolvers are well built but not cheap. Ammo is readily available for .38 S&W from Remington, Privi Partisan, and Fiocchi. The Enfield No.2 Mk1 is found commonly with out the hammer spur and is single action only. A heavy manageable pull with practice. A lot of fun to shoot.
The Webley and Enfield cylinders lock up when fired, so if the cylinder seems loose pull the trigger and then check.
I was able to find one with the spur. RAF stamped is desirable.
Enfield No. 2 Mk1.jpg.jpg
My Webley Mark III is commercial/police. No lanyard ring.
Webley Mark III_1.jpg
 
Acera said:
You might get lucky and find a H&R model 925 Defender. IIRC those were chambered in .38 S&W.


.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure the lock up on the Webley is far more durable than the H&R - important detail if you plan to do a lot of shooting. :cool:
 
Gordon said:
Bottom Mark VI is cut and has a 1927 stamped on it for some odd reason. I shoot .45 auto Rim in it. The top gun is a Singapore police gun, mine looked unissued when I got it 25 years ago, frome what I can tell it was made in late 1959. The center .455 is a 1914 marked Mark V , I shoot Fiocchi ammo in it and have owned it 30+ years . It shoots dead on at 50 feet with Fiocchi loads .
https://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-5/20095914463-webley.pdf
Click to expand...


I trust you are aware that 45 AR or ACP is too warm for your Webley.
 
Curator said:
Post-war Webley MkIVs are sturdy, reliable revolvers. Shooting commercial .38S&W ammo in them is better than nothing but does not meet original power or accuracy of military .380/200 ammo. Most commeercial .38S&W is made to shoot in the old top-break revolvers from the turn of the century and kept low pressure to avoid damaging these. I have shot commercial .38 S&W ammo from my Webley over my Chrony and found velocities of around 480-500 fps. Accuracy was non existent. If you can find some old .38 Colt "New Police" ammo you will have a close copy of British military ammo. The Webley's sights are set up for the 200 grain slug moving at about 680-700 fps. There are occasional sources of military .380/200 ammo as India and a few small Asian countries still arm their police forces with this caliber revolvers. Without reloading your supply of effective ammo is severely restricted. This might be a "niche-business" for an enterprising fellow with the correct licenses and marketing skills as there are a lot of old Webley .38s around.
Click to expand...


Guess I must be lucky; I have an Enfield No 2 and it shoots the MagTech ammo to point of aim at 7 yds. Never chronoed it, but it is very mild.
 
25-5 said:
British top break revolvers are well built but not cheap. Ammo is readily available for .38 S&W from Remington, Privi Partisan, and Fiocchi. The Enfield No.2 Mk1 is found commonly with out the hammer spur and is single action only. A heavy manageable pull with practice. A lot of fun to shoot.
The Webley and Enfield cylinders lock up when fired, so if the cylinder seems loose pull the trigger and then check.
I was able to find one with the spur. RAF stamped is desirable.
View attachment 225082
My Webley Mark III is commercial/police. No lanyard ring.
View attachment 225083
Click to expand...


And MagTech also makes the 146 gr LRN ammo for this gun.
 
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