Webley-Scott .455 1913 Model MKI Navy Automatic Pistol

[vainn80]

Here for your viewing pleasure is my Webley-Scott .455 Model 1913 MK1 N Navy pistol serial number 3800 which was accepted into service in 1914. This pistol (serial number 3800) was 1 of 1919 (serial numbers 3691-5609) delivered to the Royal Navy in December 1914.

 

[vainn80]

Here are close-ups of the various British Military markings which show the pistol was accepted into service in 1914 and the broad arrow military property mark on the grip.

 

[vainn80]

Here are photos of 1917 and 1918 head stamp .455 Eley Self-loading Navy ammo issued for this pistol in 7-round packets dated January 30 1919 and the open recoil-activated action of this pistol.

 

[vainn80]

Also shown is Commander C R Samson, standing beside a single seat Nieuport 10 aircraft with this type pistol in his hand about to start on a mission over the Turkish lines in 1915. Commander Samson commanded No. 3 Squadron, Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) Wing, based on Tenedos Island, which took part in the operations at the Dardanelles. The pistol in the photo is a .455 Webley-Scott Mark 1-N Navy automatic which is quite distinguishable by the boxy breech-block and exposed barrel.

 

[bannockburn]

vainn80

Very neat, especially with the ammo packet (did notice the lettering on it "NOT FOR REVOLVERS"), and the photo of Commander Samson with a Webley Model 1913. Thanks for sharing a rare and unique piece of history.

 

[Jim K]

Nice collection. Mine is #2747. The method of operation is fascinating; our English cousins simply did not trust coil springs.

The "not for revolvers" warning was put on because the .455 Webley Auto ammo is higher pressure than the .455 revolver ammo, some 21k psi vs 11k psi. The .455 Auto, being semi-rimmed, will fit and fire in .455 revolvers, and a number of revolvers blew up when the pistol ammo was fired in them.

Jim

 

[Monac]

There is long article about the Webley 455 automatic here:

http://www.wilkinsonfscollection.co...odel_of_1913_MkI_455_Self-Loading_Pistol.html

 

[browningguy]

Very cool piece.

 

[Dframe]

I am SO jealous. I'd love to have one like it.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Hideous! I love it!

 

[Dr.Rob]

I understand that was a well made and functional pistol, but ye gods it were beaten with an ugly stick and bears NONE of the aesthetics of design we link to the era.

Even steampunkers wouldn't accept it.

Guns and Ammo: Surplus Firearms had a great article about the Webly auto, and compared it directly to the Colt 1911. You can see why it was easy to chamber 1911s in 455 auto, they are very similar in dimension. Seems the end of the great war, and a desire for standardization killed off the big bore Webly auto. Though the auto cartridge did see use in WW2.

 

[pendennis]

Thanks very much for the pictures, and history. Very neat pistol.

 

[vainn80]

Thanks for all the comments; I'm lucky to own this very interesting and little known WWI pistol. I thought the photo of CDR Samson armed with this type pistol was very interesting; nice seeing them in action! Jim K, would love to see photos of your pistol.

 

[vainn80]

Dr.Rob: Do you have the issue date/number of the magazine or a link to this article? I'd love to read it.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I think it was a one-off issue I bought on a lark at the grocery store. It was on sale through Oct 2010. 6 pages by Philip Schreier with a lot of photos.

One of the notes was why the magazine has two notches: so that the operator could lock it on the second notch and manually single load rounds.

Partial article here:

http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940480/20100804084510745.pdf

Fast forward to 6 minutes you can see a Norwegian 1911 in size comparison to the Webley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VS7bO4juws

 

[vainn80]

Dr. Rob; thanks for the links; very interesting!

 

[Jim K]

A bit belated, but here are a couple of pics of my .455 Webley 1913.

The wood grips are WWI era British replacement grips. Not the best pictures, but might help.

That pistol is really unique. It uses a locking system I have never seen used anywhere else. The magazine release is about the hardest to use I know of, and the dual notch magazine is really odd. I know why they wanted it, but the idea just sounds weird. I can maybe see a cutoff on a rifle so the magazine can be reserved for an emergency (enemy cavalry charge?) but on a handgun??? Disassembly is odd, but no more difficult than some other guns, and a lot easier than, say, a Mauser C.96.

The use of the V recoil spring is also odd, but at least consistent with other Webley pistols; the British of that era felt that they made the absolutely best flat springs in the world (and they did) and that they were superior to any coil spring (which is less certain).


Jim

 

[Jim K]

Deleted.

 

[vainn80]

Thanks for posting photos of your pistol; very nice. I haven't shot mine yet but may do so. I have a reprint copy of CDR Samson's memoirs "Fights and Flights" in which he notes that upon deployment to France in late August 1914 every RNAS pilot carried a .45 automatic pistol. I assume he's referring to the Webley & Scott .455 Model 1913 since these had been adopted by the Royal Navy as its issue sidearm and just using a shortened reference to the .455 calibre and not to the .45 ACP Colt Government Model pistols which were available in the UK at that time for private purchases by British officers.