FuzzyBunny
Member
Is there a net source for lead weighted canes?
Weighted Canes
- Thread starter FuzzyBunny
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Note likely.
As a hide in plain sight weapon idea they're a horrible idea like sword canes and similar weaponized canes these days where you'd risk being charged for carrying with intent to go armed.
As a novelty they're pretty much just that.
As a hide in plain sight weapon idea they're a horrible idea like sword canes and similar weaponized canes these days where you'd risk being charged for carrying with intent to go armed.
As a novelty they're pretty much just that.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Making or using a prepared or intended weapon is a good way to catch a felony charge.
FuzzyBunny
Member
I guess Titanium may have been a better choice of words.
In Texas a hammer or ax handle is just a tool until you use it as a weapon, if justified then it is ignored.
In Texas a hammer or ax handle is just a tool until you use it as a weapon, if justified then it is ignored.
You cannot tell that these Shillelagh walking sticks are lead loaded.
http://misticshillelagh.tripod.com/id19.html
Mr. Liam Kealy adds the lead for balance, I have one lead loaded, and I cannot figure out where the lead is, or how he got the lead in. I cannot find a seam.
These are really showy canes: Mr Kealy does an excellent job of leaving the stick knobby without the protuberances hurting your hand. The outside texture is just right for gripping without being too rough.
http://misticshillelagh.tripod.com/id19.html
Mr. Liam Kealy adds the lead for balance, I have one lead loaded, and I cannot figure out where the lead is, or how he got the lead in. I cannot find a seam.
These are really showy canes: Mr Kealy does an excellent job of leaving the stick knobby without the protuberances hurting your hand. The outside texture is just right for gripping without being too rough.
Owen Sparks
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The proper way to get balance is to choose a heavy stick of uniform diamiter with no taper. As long as you use a minimal weight handle, this will keep the center of gravity in the middle. The objective is for your cane to handle and balance the same no matter which end you grab it by. I avoid adding metal of any kind to my canes, even on the handle so as not to draw attention to it if I have to go through a metal detector.
Owen Sparks
member
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The problem with most store bought canes is that what little weight they have is usually toward the handle.
This is caused by two things:
If the cane is made of a natural wood it generally tapers as trees and branches are always thicker at the base.
Adding a crook or handle throws the point of balance farther towards the handle end.
With either, or often a combination of both, you end up with a sort of “reverse club” that handles like a baseball bat being held by the wrong end.
Many canes that are intended to double as weapons are intentionally built handle heavy. The idea is that in a fight you will turn it around, hold it by the tip end and swing it like a club. The line of Cold Steel walking canes are built like this. Many others have a thick swell from a root ball or heavy metal handles made from things like horse hames and such. The problem is that when trouble starts you will most assuredly be holding your cane by the handle and have to swap ends before you can use it effectively. This takes time and the one thing you may not have in the chaos of a criminal assault is time.
In the Tansu method we train for close quarter combat by holding the cane like a kayak paddle. That is why we want a balanced cane. As soon as proper distance is re-established you can release either hand and swing with the other. That is why it is so important that the cane should feel and handle the same no matter which hand or which end you are holding it by.
This is caused by two things:
If the cane is made of a natural wood it generally tapers as trees and branches are always thicker at the base.
Adding a crook or handle throws the point of balance farther towards the handle end.
With either, or often a combination of both, you end up with a sort of “reverse club” that handles like a baseball bat being held by the wrong end.
Many canes that are intended to double as weapons are intentionally built handle heavy. The idea is that in a fight you will turn it around, hold it by the tip end and swing it like a club. The line of Cold Steel walking canes are built like this. Many others have a thick swell from a root ball or heavy metal handles made from things like horse hames and such. The problem is that when trouble starts you will most assuredly be holding your cane by the handle and have to swap ends before you can use it effectively. This takes time and the one thing you may not have in the chaos of a criminal assault is time.
In the Tansu method we train for close quarter combat by holding the cane like a kayak paddle. That is why we want a balanced cane. As soon as proper distance is re-established you can release either hand and swing with the other. That is why it is so important that the cane should feel and handle the same no matter which hand or which end you are holding it by.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Don't bother with a loaded cane, or loaded stick. It isn't needed and will only cause trouble. A plain wooden cane/stick can be carried anywhere, but one that sets off a metal detector or Xray is less likely to be allowed.
Learn to use a plain wood cane or stick effectively, as always hardware is no substitute for software.
Learn to use a plain wood cane or stick effectively, as always hardware is no substitute for software.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Yep adding lead to them is just bad news!
..nameless..
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A cane that is not handle heavy is awkward to actually carry, though one can get used to anything. But why have to?
The taper is both elegant and useful!
The 'thin' end (think piercing) has the necessary added weight of a ferrule and bolt.
That seems to be all the counter-balance necessary, if the proportions of the rest is correct.
Any old stump or sapling will not have the necessary qualities necessary for a quality martial cane.
I can go through multi-thousands of saplings and branches before finding a suitable stick for a shillelagh.
A cured hickory pick-axe handle, with the proper grain, and I go through MANY to find the right grain works well! Find an old weathered one at a swap-meet for some added beauty of color.
Fitting and nailing a few different coins for decoration (different countries) can add interest and weight to exactly the right places rather easily.
Loading is unnecessary in a well engineered stick, and illegal in many places.
The taper is both elegant and useful!
The 'thin' end (think piercing) has the necessary added weight of a ferrule and bolt.
That seems to be all the counter-balance necessary, if the proportions of the rest is correct.
Any old stump or sapling will not have the necessary qualities necessary for a quality martial cane.
I can go through multi-thousands of saplings and branches before finding a suitable stick for a shillelagh.
A cured hickory pick-axe handle, with the proper grain, and I go through MANY to find the right grain works well! Find an old weathered one at a swap-meet for some added beauty of color.
Fitting and nailing a few different coins for decoration (different countries) can add interest and weight to exactly the right places rather easily.
Loading is unnecessary in a well engineered stick, and illegal in many places.
lemaymiami
Member
I don't use a cane but have had extensive experience with striking implements (everything from blackjack all the way up to riot batons -including the ASP, with the proper training). All of my experience was gained in police work from the early seventies to the mid nineties. Like others above I'd advise against any leading or loading and keep any cane or staff the simplest implement possible. Along with usable comfort for daily use I'd want that stick to be fairly lightweight, a bit flexible, and as close to un-breakable as possible...
For self defense work I'd make a point of never giving the slightest hint of its intended purpose until that once in a lifetime real need occurs. In that event use it to block, parry, and strike as quickly and aggressively as you're physically able to. Give no warning and don't back off until your opponent is on the ground or has fled. No threats, no posturing, no sign at all until you're in full "terminator" mode.... Yes, defensive stick training is a very good idea - but you'll need to be willing to practice almost daily the way you would with any other martial art or it won't be much use on the day it's needed.
More to learn about this sort of stuff but not on any public forum.
For self defense work I'd make a point of never giving the slightest hint of its intended purpose until that once in a lifetime real need occurs. In that event use it to block, parry, and strike as quickly and aggressively as you're physically able to. Give no warning and don't back off until your opponent is on the ground or has fled. No threats, no posturing, no sign at all until you're in full "terminator" mode.... Yes, defensive stick training is a very good idea - but you'll need to be willing to practice almost daily the way you would with any other martial art or it won't be much use on the day it's needed.
More to learn about this sort of stuff but not on any public forum.
Carl Levitian
member
[A cane that is not handle heavy is awkward to actually carry, though one can get used to anything. But why have to?
The taper is both elegant and useful!
The 'thin' end (think piercing) has the necessary added weight of a ferrule and bolt.
That seems to be all the counter-balance necessary, if the proportions of the rest is correct.
Any old stump or sapling will not have the necessary qualities necessary for a quality martial cane.
I can go through multi-thousands of saplings and branches before finding a suitable stick for a shillelagh.]
I too like a bit of taper in my cane/stick. It makes for a faster handling stick, and I always use my stick in a tow hand hold like a pugil stick. To me, bottom of the taper is like the tip of the spear, or the bayonet. I will parry, block, and thrust with the tip. I like a taper stick with the heavier end of the balance up toward the handle so I can b e a bot quicker to target the face, throat, and stomach area. Since I use pugil stick methods, I hold the stick like a bayonet equipped rifle or a spear. All my sticks have blackened brass end caps under the rubber cane end, and If I have an inkling of trouble coming, I do remove the rubber end. Only takes a second to pull it off.
I can't forsee any situation that I would be using my stick like a club, so weight is not an issue. Any strikes I make with a stick, will be a two handed thrusting blow with an end. If not the tip of the spear, then a "butt stroke" with the root knob handle under the chin into the throat or into the face. Once you impair the attackers vision or breathing, you're on the way to getting out of Dodge.
The big thing is, if you do really mess somebody up, the more 'innocent' your stick looks, the better. If it looks like a African war club, not good. If it has metal added to load it, not good. If some idiot low life sues you hoping to get some payback because you blinded him in one eye, or put him in the hospital, whatever you used will be held up in front of a jury. If they hold up one of my lighter sticks with a nice taper, and it's not some thick club of a stick, it's going to be very hard to make a case. If it's one of those all metal adjustable canes like a drug store cane, even better. Last year, I had another operation on my right foot for some old service damage, and the V.A. hospital gave me a nice black aluminum cane that was adjustable. Had a very nice foam cushion grip.
It was too light for a club, and as Owen said, would bend when hit on a tree. But I don't plan on being mugged by a tree, and the tubular aluminum makes for a very strong thrusting spear. I put a much narrower diameter rubber end on it, and did some practice, and I found out that the weird curve of the tube coming up to the handle made a really, really good tool for blows to the face and neck, like a big brass knuckle. Once I realized how to use the weird shape, it worked very good as a close in grapple tool.
Tools are tools. Once you learn to maximize the use of the particular tool, you don't need cheep and illegal tricks like loading a cane. If push comes to shove, you will have to hurt someone. The law is going to be involved, so look as innocent as possible. Even a drug store aluminum cane can be used it you practice with it and find what it will do vs can't do. Every tool has it's strong points, just as every tool has it's weak points. A 5 shot Chief's special won't give you the firepower of a 1911, but it has protected generations of people with it's 5 rounds of .38 special. When Lou Ciamillo was at Maryland Gun Works, he showed me what a J frame was capable of, when I was going to trade mine in. He convinced me to go home and practice with it, and I did. To this day, I still have that little .38, and it has been a lesson to me. I'll never forget what he told me. "If the person shooting the gun doesn't do a good job, it's not the tool's fault. The man holding the weapon is responsible for the use of it."
I think that pretty much goes for any tool. If you have blinders on, then it's not the tools fault that you can't see the strong points of how to utilize it.
The taper is both elegant and useful!
The 'thin' end (think piercing) has the necessary added weight of a ferrule and bolt.
That seems to be all the counter-balance necessary, if the proportions of the rest is correct.
Any old stump or sapling will not have the necessary qualities necessary for a quality martial cane.
I can go through multi-thousands of saplings and branches before finding a suitable stick for a shillelagh.]
I too like a bit of taper in my cane/stick. It makes for a faster handling stick, and I always use my stick in a tow hand hold like a pugil stick. To me, bottom of the taper is like the tip of the spear, or the bayonet. I will parry, block, and thrust with the tip. I like a taper stick with the heavier end of the balance up toward the handle so I can b e a bot quicker to target the face, throat, and stomach area. Since I use pugil stick methods, I hold the stick like a bayonet equipped rifle or a spear. All my sticks have blackened brass end caps under the rubber cane end, and If I have an inkling of trouble coming, I do remove the rubber end. Only takes a second to pull it off.
I can't forsee any situation that I would be using my stick like a club, so weight is not an issue. Any strikes I make with a stick, will be a two handed thrusting blow with an end. If not the tip of the spear, then a "butt stroke" with the root knob handle under the chin into the throat or into the face. Once you impair the attackers vision or breathing, you're on the way to getting out of Dodge.
The big thing is, if you do really mess somebody up, the more 'innocent' your stick looks, the better. If it looks like a African war club, not good. If it has metal added to load it, not good. If some idiot low life sues you hoping to get some payback because you blinded him in one eye, or put him in the hospital, whatever you used will be held up in front of a jury. If they hold up one of my lighter sticks with a nice taper, and it's not some thick club of a stick, it's going to be very hard to make a case. If it's one of those all metal adjustable canes like a drug store cane, even better. Last year, I had another operation on my right foot for some old service damage, and the V.A. hospital gave me a nice black aluminum cane that was adjustable. Had a very nice foam cushion grip.
It was too light for a club, and as Owen said, would bend when hit on a tree. But I don't plan on being mugged by a tree, and the tubular aluminum makes for a very strong thrusting spear. I put a much narrower diameter rubber end on it, and did some practice, and I found out that the weird curve of the tube coming up to the handle made a really, really good tool for blows to the face and neck, like a big brass knuckle. Once I realized how to use the weird shape, it worked very good as a close in grapple tool.
Tools are tools. Once you learn to maximize the use of the particular tool, you don't need cheep and illegal tricks like loading a cane. If push comes to shove, you will have to hurt someone. The law is going to be involved, so look as innocent as possible. Even a drug store aluminum cane can be used it you practice with it and find what it will do vs can't do. Every tool has it's strong points, just as every tool has it's weak points. A 5 shot Chief's special won't give you the firepower of a 1911, but it has protected generations of people with it's 5 rounds of .38 special. When Lou Ciamillo was at Maryland Gun Works, he showed me what a J frame was capable of, when I was going to trade mine in. He convinced me to go home and practice with it, and I did. To this day, I still have that little .38, and it has been a lesson to me. I'll never forget what he told me. "If the person shooting the gun doesn't do a good job, it's not the tool's fault. The man holding the weapon is responsible for the use of it."
I think that pretty much goes for any tool. If you have blinders on, then it's not the tools fault that you can't see the strong points of how to utilize it.
Owen Sparks
member
- Joined
- May 27, 2007
- Messages
- 4,523
If you must have a weight forward cane you can "load" it by building it upside down.
That is, reverse the taper so that the handle is on the thin end and the rubber tip is on the thick end. This is the natural way trees grow but for some reason people want to turn them the other way once they are cut and made into sticks, canes and staffs.
I have used a slight version of reverse taper, maybe a 1/4" disparity in diamiter, just enough to counter the weight of the head and put the center of gravity right in the middle. That way the cane handels the same no matter which end you hold it by. You can go further with it though and make a walking cane that swells so much towards the base that it is actually a club of sorts. This reverse taper of natural wood would give you the same effect as adding metal without setting off metal detectors or giving you problems in court.
That is, reverse the taper so that the handle is on the thin end and the rubber tip is on the thick end. This is the natural way trees grow but for some reason people want to turn them the other way once they are cut and made into sticks, canes and staffs.
I have used a slight version of reverse taper, maybe a 1/4" disparity in diamiter, just enough to counter the weight of the head and put the center of gravity right in the middle. That way the cane handels the same no matter which end you hold it by. You can go further with it though and make a walking cane that swells so much towards the base that it is actually a club of sorts. This reverse taper of natural wood would give you the same effect as adding metal without setting off metal detectors or giving you problems in court.
lemaymiami
Member
As usual Carl get's right down to it.... Anyone considering self defense with a cane, walking stick or staff would be well advised to consider his advice carefully.
Attaboy Carl, you've said some of the things I'm hesitant to get into.
Attaboy Carl, you've said some of the things I'm hesitant to get into.
Deltaboy1984
Member
I am with Carl on this. I gotten to where a cane is always with in reach at home,car or work.
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