Since I just bought little used Chinese AKM this ban does not affect me. Sure hope lacquered metal cased 7,62x39 from Russia remains available. While I can easily afford brass-cased ammo I find metal cased ammo easier to load into 30 round magazines. Apparently there is less friction between case and magazine "lips".
Well, it finally happened (Saiga import ban)
- Thread starter barnbwt
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Saiga import ban?
EDIT: This was my original post in a new thread that got merged into this thread.
The last thing I would want to do is spread BS rumors but I've read this on 3 sources and was wondering if this is legit. If it's another bogus story my apologies for starting a thread on it.
Sources:
http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtri...hnikov-concern-aks-banned-by-executive-order/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ns-import-izhmash-kalashnikov-saiga-firearms/
CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/politics/ukraine-russia-sanctions/index.html
EDIT: This was my original post in a new thread that got merged into this thread.
The last thing I would want to do is spread BS rumors but I've read this on 3 sources and was wondering if this is legit. If it's another bogus story my apologies for starting a thread on it.
Sources:
http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtri...hnikov-concern-aks-banned-by-executive-order/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ns-import-izhmash-kalashnikov-saiga-firearms/
CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/politics/ukraine-russia-sanctions/index.html
Last edited:
TenDriver
Member
It would appear as though they are under sanction.
It's mostly legit
There are other threads started
It's not about Saiga alone, a lot of other Russian businesses were targeted.
It's a good example of just piggybacking on an existing issue - ie, it was cheap and easy to include. Which means the administration took that shot because they wouldn't have to answer for it as much and expend political capital.
That's because the President is rapidly being seen as "lame duck" and everyone realizes his days are numbered. He may still be POTUS but he's had his turn in office, things didn't get miraculously better, and a lot of folks don't have any hope for change now.
As for Saiga and other imports, there's going to have to be some fancy intermediary financial footwork to keep a third party from being able to get them and import them. A corporate change on their part to reinvent the maker as a new company could do it, but then another EO could wipe out the dodge. In any case it will likely jack up the prices, which was the major selling point of their firearms.
Adding another 25% to the price would just about kill sales, they aren't known as being high quality and it won't be justified in the marketplace. Which means the average buyer will have to look elsewhere for cheap battle rifles. That will create one unintended consequence as what they buy will become more demand for that product.
Imported firearms in this era are all targets of opportunity for the Administration, but it does go to them having to use a crisis to get any traction. NOTE CAREFULLY: The POTUS did NOT ban imports in a sweeping blanket EO and that means even they didn't see the legality or opportunity. Otherwise they could have done it a year ago and justified it.
What this shows is that things aren't as bad as some make out.
There are other threads started
It's not about Saiga alone, a lot of other Russian businesses were targeted.
It's a good example of just piggybacking on an existing issue - ie, it was cheap and easy to include. Which means the administration took that shot because they wouldn't have to answer for it as much and expend political capital.
That's because the President is rapidly being seen as "lame duck" and everyone realizes his days are numbered. He may still be POTUS but he's had his turn in office, things didn't get miraculously better, and a lot of folks don't have any hope for change now.
As for Saiga and other imports, there's going to have to be some fancy intermediary financial footwork to keep a third party from being able to get them and import them. A corporate change on their part to reinvent the maker as a new company could do it, but then another EO could wipe out the dodge. In any case it will likely jack up the prices, which was the major selling point of their firearms.
Adding another 25% to the price would just about kill sales, they aren't known as being high quality and it won't be justified in the marketplace. Which means the average buyer will have to look elsewhere for cheap battle rifles. That will create one unintended consequence as what they buy will become more demand for that product.
Imported firearms in this era are all targets of opportunity for the Administration, but it does go to them having to use a crisis to get any traction. NOTE CAREFULLY: The POTUS did NOT ban imports in a sweeping blanket EO and that means even they didn't see the legality or opportunity. Otherwise they could have done it a year ago and justified it.
What this shows is that things aren't as bad as some make out.
JustinJ
Member
It seems that maintaining such a sanction will be difficult if/when the conflict with Ukraine blows over. It sucks we can't get Saigas but there is a valid reason for the sanctions. Lets try to look a little past our own immediate self interests.
Us meddling in everyone else's business is not something we all agree with. This is more than just self interest but that's a conversation for another forum.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Ha! LOL.
Let's try not to debate whether or not US foreign policy regarding Russia and Ukraine qualifies as any "valid reason" worthy of looking past one's own immediate self-interests.
That would certainly go far beyond our scope of discussions here at THR.
Let's try not to debate whether or not US foreign policy regarding Russia and Ukraine qualifies as any "valid reason" worthy of looking past one's own immediate self-interests.
That would certainly go far beyond our scope of discussions here at THR.
macadore
Member
Maybe Saiga will build a plant in the U.S. like Glock and Beretta.
JustinJ
Member
Well, we meddled when we convinced Ukraine to give up their nukes, which involved Russia signing a treaty promising to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine's territory, so its a little late for isolationism. That's actually beside the point in the context of the preceding comments of this thread. Agree with the mild act of sanctioning a country for violating the sovereignty of another or not, this conflict is about a bit more than Saiga rifles for americans.
Edit: Sorry, Sam, was typing when u posted.
JustinJ
Member
Based on history, can anybody provide an educated guess to the likelihood of such a ban persisting once/if the conflict ends? Based on my recollection, such sanctions are generally not permanent except in rare cases such as Cuba.
I don't know the politics behind the ban but the Norinco SKS ban is still in affect 20 years (guessing) later.
You can buy surplus Chinese & Soviet era SKS rifles that were packed in awful brownish grease. I see them sold for about $350.
mgmorden
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of AK type clones aren't made in Russia anyways right? This sucks for the specific products made by Saiga, but I'm sure AK type guns will still be available for reasonable prices.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
You can buy and sell these guns that are already in country. You CANNOT import Chinese made AKs and SKSs any more. So instead of $89 Norinco SKSs, you have $400 Norinco SKSs. And the MAK-90 AK variants that everyone used to laugh at are considered premium.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
True. Lots of Romanian and Bulgarian guns, mostly being rebuilt (or modified) here to get around the 922(r) issue.
Saigas have been considered something rather special, in that you could get a new-made semi-auto AK that (with a little de-neutering) was just like a Russian factory-new model.
And of course they came out with the Saiga-12 and -20 shotgun versions as well, and those aren't available as parts-kit guns from the former soviet bloc states.
wally
Member
Most of this that is currently coming in seems to be made in the Ukraine so its unlikely to be banned, although the current situation may have them rethink their export levels.
But Tula is the russian plant, so wouldn't tula brand be gone? (which is 95% of the 7.62x39 I see).
RX-178
Member
Most of what is called 'Russian Ammo' is only called that because it is steel cased, berdan primed, which is the typical manufacturing process there.
Even TulAmmo specifically gets most of its product from Ukraine, and not Russia.
The only hiccup there would be that Kalashnikov Concern can't be involved in the import process to get the finished ammunition to the USA. This is at worst, a minor hiccup, even if it applies at all, since Kalashnikov Concern is specifically named in the EO, as opposed to 'all Russian weapons companies', so just replacing Kalashnikov Concern with a different export broker would circumvent the EO.
Even TulAmmo specifically gets most of its product from Ukraine, and not Russia.
The only hiccup there would be that Kalashnikov Concern can't be involved in the import process to get the finished ammunition to the USA. This is at worst, a minor hiccup, even if it applies at all, since Kalashnikov Concern is specifically named in the EO, as opposed to 'all Russian weapons companies', so just replacing Kalashnikov Concern with a different export broker would circumvent the EO.
Cactus Jack Arizona
Member
Barn, Baikal is under the umbrella of Kalashnikov Concern, the company listed in the EO 13662.
CoalTrain49
Member
Now that's just plain un-american. 
Orion8472
Member
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What are some scenarios, as a result of this? Will you see the Saiga rifles soar in prices? If that happened, would that mean that people WOULD actually pay the higher prices?
I have one that I converted a while back, but as AK rifles go, . . . . it isn't THAT high in quality. Not like an Arsenal. I think that if prices got up there, I'd just buy something better quality.
I guess my point is that, at this point, we shouldn't get caught up in any "hype" or "price increases by sellers pushing fear".
Currently, I'm not even in the market for an AK, so it really doesn't concern me much.
I have one that I converted a while back, but as AK rifles go, . . . . it isn't THAT high in quality. Not like an Arsenal. I think that if prices got up there, I'd just buy something better quality.
I guess my point is that, at this point, we shouldn't get caught up in any "hype" or "price increases by sellers pushing fear".
Currently, I'm not even in the market for an AK, so it really doesn't concern me much.
Exactly I bet they had a hand in it and the same with the Norinco ban in the 90's. "competition is a sin" as said by john Rockefeller. But watch out if you start straying around the truth you are a conspiracy nut. I see 1200 dollar and up AK's now
Cactus Jack Arizona
Member
My signature reads as follows: “The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” — Adolf Hitler
What if we change the wording a bit by adding two small terms, firearms and guns.
The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their firearm freedom at a time, to erode gun rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those gun rights and firearm freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed. Can anyone make a silver lining out of this?
Think about it.
What if we change the wording a bit by adding two small terms, firearms and guns.
The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their firearm freedom at a time, to erode gun rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those gun rights and firearm freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed. Can anyone make a silver lining out of this?
Think about it.
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