Well, it finally happened (Saiga import ban)

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Mp7 said:
Will Kel-Tec get into building AKs now? :)
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Not Kel-Tec. Whether you like their products or no, KT is definitely an innovator and not a copier. Ruger is an excellent example of a copier and I really am surprised they haven't copied the AK. It might be because they are investment casting specialists and that doesn't lend well to making AK's, but I'm still surprised.
 
Thanks Robert.

So I will ask again:

What are some scenarios, as a result of this? Will you see the Saiga rifles soar in prices? If that happened, would that mean that people WOULD actually pay the higher prices?

I have one that I converted a while back, but as AK rifles go, . . . . it isn't THAT high in quality. Not like an Arsenal. I think that if prices got up there, I'd just buy something better quality.

I guess my point is that, at this point, we shouldn't get caught up in any "hype" or "price increases by sellers pushing fear".
 
Yes, Saiga prices certainly will rise. Prices only rise because people DO pay those prices. No retailer will sit on stock and hold his price firm if the stock isn't selling. So the price is set by what people DO pay. When the supply declines, eventually there's two guys who want that rifle and only one rifle to be had. The price rises because one guy will pay a little more than another guy to get one.

If you don't want or need an AK rifle of that sort, by all means don't get "caught up in any hype." That will help the prices stay low for the folks who do want to buy one of them while there are still a few left in country to purchase.
 
Orion8472 said:
What are some scenarios, as a result of this? Will you see the Saiga rifles soar in prices? If that happened, would that mean that people WOULD actually pay the higher prices?
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I think they certainly will go up in price.
I think some people may pay those prices, I think most will go find a cheaper AK built somewhere else...possibly already converted to the original configuration.
 
Well. As I understand it the "Made In Russia" was most of the allure of Saigas. So you will see the price of those go up untill the people that have to have a Russian AK have one. More people will decide that a Romanian or Bulgarian AK is fine. If I had to guess Saiga's will stabalize at about what an Arsenal goes for now. That seems to be the market's "high end desirable AK" threshold.

I would expect to see the most effect on the Shotguns. Does anyone else make import an AK shotgun to the states? I would expect to see either a Europian company trying to fill that gap or a (more likely a bunch of small) American companies building one. It's not like an AK is that hard to build.

When a Russian AK shotgun is ~$700 people will buy that. Take that away and an American AK shotgun in the ~$800-$1000 range will sell I bet.

Second effect, in the meantime KSG's and UTS-15's will get more popular, because a Saiga-12 was one of their direct competitors in the "high-cap Shotgun" realm.
 
I don't see the Saiga rifles getting very high but the Saiga12, Saiga20 & Saiga410 will creep up at some point. Might take a year but even if the Ukraine thing goes away I bet the firearms sanctions will stay.

There's really no competition to the Saiga12, the KSG and UTS are pumps for one and non mag fed for the other (and the KSG still has a pretty cheap feel to it, saw one crack already from regular range use). Being able to have a semi auto AK47 in a 12 gauge shotgun with a 20 round drum and a stack of 12 round stick mags lined up is pretty fun I can attest to. :D
 
There's really no competition to the Saiga12, the KSG and UTS are pumps for one and non mag fed for the other (and the KSG still has a pretty cheap feel to it, saw one crack already from regular range use). Being able to have a semi auto AK47 in a 12 gauge shotgun with a 20 round drum and a stack of 12 round stick mags lined up is pretty fun I can attest to
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Which is why I think some American companies will start making them soon. As soon as the price on the Russian guns hits what it would take to profitably sell some American ones, someone's going to try to make and sell one. Free market.

From the looks of gunbroker they'll hit that price point about noon on sunday.
 
I'm surprised it took this long, and ammo will be next. I bought about 4k of Russian junk to feed my AK when we put the first sanctions on them.
 
Really, I don't like magazine fed shotguns. Saw a video with 10 rounds and it stuck down quite a ways. I'd rather have the Kel-tec setup, even if it is pump.

I have a 7.62x39 Saiga that I converted on my own and doubt I will sell it. . . . unless prices people are willing to pay for one gets crazy, then I may reconsider. But I really don't see that happening. People will just go Romanian.
 
I have one that I converted a while back, but as AK rifles go, . . . . it isn't THAT high in quality. Not like an Arsenal.
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Most stamped Arsenal AK's ARE Saiga's. They are the same rifle, Arsenal just converts them. You just pay an extra $500-$600 for them to do it.:banghead:

I just purchased a brand new Vepr .308 last month for $599 and last night ordered a Saiga .308 for $599 and a Saiga 12 Taktika for $799, I'm covered. :D
 
There is already a Chinese copy of the Saiga shotgun, the Catamounts. I personally think they feel better, and are smoother out of the box than the Saiga's. They are also overpriced, although they do have a few more features like additional rail mounts. But they are over a grand at my local Gander, not a bargin by any means.
 
Ryanxia said:
There's really no competition to the Saiga12, the KSG and UTS are pumps for one and non mag fed for the other (and the KSG still has a pretty cheap feel to it, saw one crack already from regular range use). Being able to have a semi auto AK47 in a 12 gauge shotgun with a 20 round drum and a stack of 12 round stick mags lined up is pretty fun I can attest to.
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That's simply not true. There are other magazine-fed, semi-automatic shotguns on the market like the MKA-1919 and the BR-99. Out of the box many would suggest either is superior to the Saiga. Rebuilding new Saigas is what keeps companies like Tromix in business.

IN the right hands, shotguns with tube magazines are faster anyway:

Jerry Miculek vs. Clint Upchurch 3Gun Runs
 
I guess if I didnt want a saiga before I sure wont want one now. I dont buy just to sell so no reason to buy now.
 
The Kalashnikov Concern is 51% owned and controlled by the Russian Federation government. An oligarchic government that is hostile toward US American interests and the liberal democratic values that we in the west enjoy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/business/global/russia-sells-stake-in-maker-of-ak-47s.html?_r=0
In an interview in 2012, the former factory director, Maksim Kuzyuk, described sales in the United States as integral to the business. About 40 percent of the factory’s output went to gun buyers there, about the same number as bought by the Russian military.
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I am perfectly fine with the current administration forbidding the importation of small arms from a hostile nation and hope the trade sanctions do as much damage as possible to the Kalashnikov Concern.
 
I wonder what affect this will have on ammo supply from Russia. Will Barnaul, Tula, Vympel, etc will be banned from importation as well under these new sanctions? Very curious....May have to max a charge card...:banghead:
 
barnbwt said:
So for now, Izhmash is now persona non grata. As is SIG, but from the opposite perspective (our government being shady). The ban on the Ruskies is indefinite.

Things to remember in 2016; "Will you reopen trade with Russia/China as far as sporting arms?"

Congrats, Saiganeers, you now own valuable Norinco's... Anybody know if Baikal is effected?

TCB
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Though I may not speak to the OPs concerns directly.....

You should have seen this coming. If you wanted a Saiga and don't have one you've waited too long. They are now finite. There are plenty of AKs. Just not plenty of Saiga AK's rolling around now. They will not be coming to a neighborhood near you.

I'm thinking all AK prices just had an uptick. Ammo and mags will do the same. I don't plan on participating.
 
Hmm, I see people keep bringing up "geopolitical justification" even though I though this forum was not the place for that? ;) I can dance, if we really want to go down that road, but let's not, m'kay?

I've never felt so good for having no interest in AKs whatsoever :cool:. Almost as aloof as my detachment from ARs during 2013. But one of the double barrel 45-70's, combo guns, and even the Drozd auto-BB-gun (which I'd heard is actually pretty cool) were "somewhere" on my list 'o guns. And for darn sure we'll never see the MP412, now :cuss:

It is kinda funny to see this particular sanction imposed, considering the entire Saiga US export line probably only makes a few million dollars a year --hardly the lynchpin in Ivan's plans. I just hope this doesn't end with us bombing their factories like we did to the Yugo --now I'll never get those spare parts I need (and there's a lot of them :p)

"You should have seen this coming."
"Duh", and/or "hello?" But, but, they said he'd never pull this kind of thing through executive orders? :eek: Recent, repeated history would strongly indicate this is not the last effort on this front; the prez tends to pursue any line lacking opposition to excess. I honestly wouldn't put it past him to try removing sporting exemptions on cartridges by the end of this. They're pushing on 80%, armor piercing ammo, imports, parts kits, licensing... pretty much everything you don't need congressional approval for. Fancy that? :confused:

TCB
 
[QUOTE=barnbwt;9548653]Hmm,

"You should have seen this coming."
"Duh", and/or "hello?" But, but, they said he'd never pull this kind of thing through executive orders?

TCB[/QUOTE]

I really don't put much stock in what they say anymore. I'm not even sure who they are. I don't recall any deal made with them or they.
 
Sam Cade said:
The Kalashnikov Concern is 51% owned and controlled by the Russian Federation government. An oligarchic government that is hostile toward US American interests and the liberal democratic values that we in the west enjoy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/business/global/russia-sells-stake-in-maker-of-ak-47s.html?_r=0


I am perfectly fine with the current administration forbidding the importation of small arms from a hostile nation and hope the trade sanctions do as much damage as possible to the Kalashnikov Concern.
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I'm with you Sam.
 
Do we import anything else from Russia? Has an executive order banned any imports that are not firearms?
 
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