LiveLife
Member
No, just alarmed doctor when BLL went from 8 to 12 becaused she had to report to public health for anything above 10.
Now if you ask my wife, she may say definitely evidence of brain damage.
What’s your 45 ACP Pet Load
- Thread starter red rick
- Start date
Now if you ask my wife, she may say definitely evidence of brain damage.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Off thread but to answer a question posted earlier.
My levels were sky high >80 ug/dl and I felt fine. (Chelation therapy high level BTW)
I had them checked because I shot a lot at an indoor range and heard if you were shooting indoors it was a good idea to get them checked.
My Doc thought it was strange of me to ask but it turned out I had an issue. (he decided to advise his other patients who shoot indoors to get their's checked as well, only 2 indoor ranges in town)
(Got letters from the State etc. Lab had to report high level to the state by law)
I traced the issue to shooting at an indoor range, as much as I liked going there (close to my house) I don't shoot indoors any more,
I could probably go there and not shoot much but then it doesn't justify the membership if you can't shoot a lot.
If you shoot a lot probably a good idea to get your levels checked, most insurance will cover the lab test if requested by a doctor.
If the insurance pays and your levels are ok the only bad thing is you wasted the insurance companies money
My levels were sky high >80 ug/dl and I felt fine. (Chelation therapy high level BTW)
I had them checked because I shot a lot at an indoor range and heard if you were shooting indoors it was a good idea to get them checked.
My Doc thought it was strange of me to ask but it turned out I had an issue. (he decided to advise his other patients who shoot indoors to get their's checked as well, only 2 indoor ranges in town)
(Got letters from the State etc. Lab had to report high level to the state by law)
I traced the issue to shooting at an indoor range, as much as I liked going there (close to my house) I don't shoot indoors any more,
I could probably go there and not shoot much but then it doesn't justify the membership if you can't shoot a lot.
If you shoot a lot probably a good idea to get your levels checked, most insurance will cover the lab test if requested by a doctor.
If the insurance pays and your levels are ok the only bad thing is you wasted the insurance companies money
I found in a middle 1950’s American Rifleman article written by James Clark of Clark Custom Guns https://clarkcustomguns.com/about/
Mr Clark’s trophies and pictures are all on those wall shelves
that he was using a load of 3.5 grains Bullseye with a 200 gr H&G 68 bullet at 25 yards. I don’t remember if he had a 50 yard load. I presume he won the NRA 2700 Bullseye Championship with that load. This is a 90 point match, when this course of fire is shot with a 22lr,( 90 rounds), a centerfire pistol, (90 rounds), and a 45 (90 rounds), the total possible score is 2700.
Mr Clark shot that load when everyone used irons, when I tried it with an Ultra Dot on top of my Les Baer, I had the occasional failure to feed/eject, especially in cold weather. Even though I am using a 12 lb recoil spring, the pistol was still too sensitive to the extra weight on the slide. The Greybeards that used optics, they recommended 4.0 grs Bullseye Pistol powder with the 200 grain bullet, with the stipulation that I keep the bullet at 740 fps for stability at 50 yards. I found a lot change of Bullseye powder required an extra grain of powder to 4.1 grains with a H&G 68 type bullet. And with Xtreme Plated 200 grain SWC’s, I had to bump it up to 4.2 grains because I had failures to function.
I did conduct some tests with AA#5, it shot well, and the velocity I wanted was with this load
Bullseye Pistol powder still gives tighter extreme spreads and standard deviations than AA#5 even though AA#5 meters better because it is a ball powder. With these minimum loads, I want consistent slide velocities, so for match ammunition I will stay with Bullseye Pistol Powder or Titegroup.
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
Ave Vel = 742.9
Std Dev = 9.89
ES = 33.19
High = 760.6
Low = 727.5
Number rds= 20
The competitor does not have to shoot a 1911 in NRA 2700 Bullseye. For the 45, a competitor can shoot a hogleg or N frame in 45LC. There used to be shooters who fired 45ACP S&W N frames in centerfire and 45. It is rare to see a revolver shooter because of the difficultly of double action shooting during timed fire, or rapid fire. I only shoot a revolver in CMP EIC matches, and that with a 38 Special revolver. I occasionally have rounds in the black with the revolver, and it is a real victory if all are on paper.
However, I seem to be the only one firing 200 grain anything in 2700 Bullseye Competition. Those that reload their own are shooting 185 grain LSWC’s, and the most common load I have heard is, 4.2 grains Bullseye Pistol Powder. I talked loads with Ernest and he showed me some of his targets.
Mind you, target loads are fired using 12 lb recoil springs, heavier springs will cause failures to feed or failures to eject. Spring tension for standard 230 grain ball loads is typically 16 lbs in a 1911. Those who are better financed shoot 185 JHP factory ammunition. This is a two times 2700 Bullseye Pistol National Champion, whom I scored at a 25 yard reduced match
Since this is the internet, everyone does this one handed at 25 yards, and of course, some do it with their eyes closed. However, I thought this shooter was doing very well, much better than me.
This is what he did with a 22lr
When I shot near AMU shooters they were using 185 grain JHP made by Atlanta Arms
https://atlantaarms.com/products/elite-45-acp-185gr-jhp.html
When I shot next to All Guard shooters, and next to the Team Captain, I asked him about the ammunition they were using. The Team Captain is a gunsmith and he told me the performance specifications he used in contracting with Zero ammunition. The ammunition is using a Zero 185 grain JHP. He wanted the bullet to be at 800-810 fps, but it turned out, the stuff on the line was in the 790’s. His accuracy criteria was 1.5 inch ten shot groups at 50 yards, out of two of the three custom 1911’s he provided as test articles. Notice, ten shot groups, not three shot groups. Three shots may be the current gold standard for consistency and accuracy for advertisers and influencers, but actually, as a standard for consistency and accuracy three shots is all narcissistic nonsense.
Having the most accurate load does not mean the shooter can actually hit a mountain, while shooting at its base. We live in a consumption based society, and one of the peculiarities is, people are taught that they can overcome a lack of marksmanship skills with expensive equipment purchases. You see this all the time, buy expensive whatever, and you will hit dead center. It sells stuff. However, in the real world, shooting is a skill, and it takes lots and lots of practice to be good. Ernst told me when he earned his Master Card, he was out at the range several days a week, between matches. It took constant practice. And it does. I thought was interesting, the Range Masters at the Bullseye Pistol Range at CMP Talladega knew me by name. To shoot there, you have to qualify. If you can keep all shots within a two foot by two foot target at 25 yards, you can shoot on the 25 yard targets. If you can do the same at 50 yards, you can shoot at the 50 yard targets.
They get mad when shooters hit that white frame around the target, and they get even more upset when someone hits the LED lights at 12 and 6 OC.
Turns out, so few had qualified, at the time, the Range Master’s remembered my name. The day I qualified, there was a big pile of 380 ACP brass forward of the firing line. Seems a group from Atlanta had showed up, and none of them were able to keep all their shots on the 25 yard target. Incidentally, for qualification, the CMP uses a paper target on a special frame, which is cheap to repair.
Then, what is your accuracy criteria? Are you out to group 10 shots within 3 inches at 50 yards? Or are you out to hit a human sized target at seven yards? The closer the target, target grade accuracy is not that important. A standard, cheapo 1911 will actually shoot pretty well at 7 yards, with duplicate ball ammunition. This was very acceptable
With irons, keeping on a pie plate at 25 yards is good for me
Also good enough with this cheap 1911
I am burning up a keg of 1990’s AA#5. Shoots 230 FMJ well.
Good enough to plink with.
A 230 with 5.0 grains Bullseye Pistol was the service load from 1910, and probably through Vietnam. Hard to beat as a starting load. I was trying to figure what the point of aim was, some shots are not on the pie plate.
Mr Clark’s trophies and pictures are all on those wall shelves
that he was using a load of 3.5 grains Bullseye with a 200 gr H&G 68 bullet at 25 yards. I don’t remember if he had a 50 yard load. I presume he won the NRA 2700 Bullseye Championship with that load. This is a 90 point match, when this course of fire is shot with a 22lr,( 90 rounds), a centerfire pistol, (90 rounds), and a 45 (90 rounds), the total possible score is 2700.
Mr Clark shot that load when everyone used irons, when I tried it with an Ultra Dot on top of my Les Baer, I had the occasional failure to feed/eject, especially in cold weather. Even though I am using a 12 lb recoil spring, the pistol was still too sensitive to the extra weight on the slide. The Greybeards that used optics, they recommended 4.0 grs Bullseye Pistol powder with the 200 grain bullet, with the stipulation that I keep the bullet at 740 fps for stability at 50 yards. I found a lot change of Bullseye powder required an extra grain of powder to 4.1 grains with a H&G 68 type bullet. And with Xtreme Plated 200 grain SWC’s, I had to bump it up to 4.2 grains because I had failures to function.
I did conduct some tests with AA#5, it shot well, and the velocity I wanted was with this load
Bullseye Pistol powder still gives tighter extreme spreads and standard deviations than AA#5 even though AA#5 meters better because it is a ball powder. With these minimum loads, I want consistent slide velocities, so for match ammunition I will stay with Bullseye Pistol Powder or Titegroup.
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
Ave Vel = 742.9
Std Dev = 9.89
ES = 33.19
High = 760.6
Low = 727.5
Number rds= 20
The competitor does not have to shoot a 1911 in NRA 2700 Bullseye. For the 45, a competitor can shoot a hogleg or N frame in 45LC. There used to be shooters who fired 45ACP S&W N frames in centerfire and 45. It is rare to see a revolver shooter because of the difficultly of double action shooting during timed fire, or rapid fire. I only shoot a revolver in CMP EIC matches, and that with a 38 Special revolver. I occasionally have rounds in the black with the revolver, and it is a real victory if all are on paper.
However, I seem to be the only one firing 200 grain anything in 2700 Bullseye Competition. Those that reload their own are shooting 185 grain LSWC’s, and the most common load I have heard is, 4.2 grains Bullseye Pistol Powder. I talked loads with Ernest and he showed me some of his targets.
Mind you, target loads are fired using 12 lb recoil springs, heavier springs will cause failures to feed or failures to eject. Spring tension for standard 230 grain ball loads is typically 16 lbs in a 1911. Those who are better financed shoot 185 JHP factory ammunition. This is a two times 2700 Bullseye Pistol National Champion, whom I scored at a 25 yard reduced match
Since this is the internet, everyone does this one handed at 25 yards, and of course, some do it with their eyes closed. However, I thought this shooter was doing very well, much better than me.
This is what he did with a 22lr
When I shot near AMU shooters they were using 185 grain JHP made by Atlanta Arms
https://atlantaarms.com/products/elite-45-acp-185gr-jhp.html
When I shot next to All Guard shooters, and next to the Team Captain, I asked him about the ammunition they were using. The Team Captain is a gunsmith and he told me the performance specifications he used in contracting with Zero ammunition. The ammunition is using a Zero 185 grain JHP. He wanted the bullet to be at 800-810 fps, but it turned out, the stuff on the line was in the 790’s. His accuracy criteria was 1.5 inch ten shot groups at 50 yards, out of two of the three custom 1911’s he provided as test articles. Notice, ten shot groups, not three shot groups. Three shots may be the current gold standard for consistency and accuracy for advertisers and influencers, but actually, as a standard for consistency and accuracy three shots is all narcissistic nonsense.
Having the most accurate load does not mean the shooter can actually hit a mountain, while shooting at its base. We live in a consumption based society, and one of the peculiarities is, people are taught that they can overcome a lack of marksmanship skills with expensive equipment purchases. You see this all the time, buy expensive whatever, and you will hit dead center. It sells stuff. However, in the real world, shooting is a skill, and it takes lots and lots of practice to be good. Ernst told me when he earned his Master Card, he was out at the range several days a week, between matches. It took constant practice. And it does. I thought was interesting, the Range Masters at the Bullseye Pistol Range at CMP Talladega knew me by name. To shoot there, you have to qualify. If you can keep all shots within a two foot by two foot target at 25 yards, you can shoot on the 25 yard targets. If you can do the same at 50 yards, you can shoot at the 50 yard targets.
They get mad when shooters hit that white frame around the target, and they get even more upset when someone hits the LED lights at 12 and 6 OC.
Turns out, so few had qualified, at the time, the Range Master’s remembered my name. The day I qualified, there was a big pile of 380 ACP brass forward of the firing line. Seems a group from Atlanta had showed up, and none of them were able to keep all their shots on the 25 yard target. Incidentally, for qualification, the CMP uses a paper target on a special frame, which is cheap to repair.
Then, what is your accuracy criteria? Are you out to group 10 shots within 3 inches at 50 yards? Or are you out to hit a human sized target at seven yards? The closer the target, target grade accuracy is not that important. A standard, cheapo 1911 will actually shoot pretty well at 7 yards, with duplicate ball ammunition. This was very acceptable
With irons, keeping on a pie plate at 25 yards is good for me
Also good enough with this cheap 1911
I am burning up a keg of 1990’s AA#5. Shoots 230 FMJ well.
Good enough to plink with.
A 230 with 5.0 grains Bullseye Pistol was the service load from 1910, and probably through Vietnam. Hard to beat as a starting load. I was trying to figure what the point of aim was, some shots are not on the pie plate.
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wankerjake
Member
I have some red dot I may have to mess with. I got it in a reloading buyout and kept it because of threads like this
I’m surprised how underrepresented Red Dot is. Talk about an ancient secret.
Shhhhh… don’t tell anybody!
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,059
Oh! Right. Sooooooo, never mind.
It’s dirty, spiky and doesn’t “meter” well so, skip Red Dot, fer sher.
I’m a curmudgeon as anyone and use Unique and 700-X. For some reason I’ve never tried Red Dot or Green Dot for shot shell or handgun.
45 ACP works well with many powders.
runner3264
Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2021
- Messages
- 101
230gr. RN FMJ with 4.8 grains of N330. Nice soft shooting, clean buning and accurate.
Charlie98
Member
I’m surprised how underrepresented Red Dot is. Talk about an ancient secret.
I'm actually a fan of RedDot... I picked up 2# on a fluke back during the Obama Shortage. It worked pretty darned well in many cartridges, and particularly in the .45's. It's a little slower than W231 and some of the others, and it seemed to work well enough with the 230grn .45ACP's. I don't have any left on the bench anymore, but if Unique became unavailable, I wouldn't be unhappy with RedDot.
CQB45ACP
Member
Although I included 4.5gr of sports pistol as a favorite, this morning I was reminded how smokey it is in light loads. But still very accurate with my 5” 1911
I’d forgotten that fact since of late I was shooting at a range with dark background and otherwise not brightly lit. But today I shot at a range with the opposite lighting and boy lots of smoke. At least it smells good.
I guess it’s pretty sooty on the bottom end too and some may not like that but since I wet tumble, it’s no problem to me.
Anyway, forewarned is forearmed.
I’d forgotten that fact since of late I was shooting at a range with dark background and otherwise not brightly lit. But today I shot at a range with the opposite lighting and boy lots of smoke. At least it smells good.
I guess it’s pretty sooty on the bottom end too and some may not like that but since I wet tumble, it’s no problem to me.
Anyway, forewarned is forearmed.
I purchased a lb of estate sale Green Dot, and it shot well in all the pistol cartridges that Bullseye shot well. The differences between many of Alliant powders is about a grain in the case for velocity. Going up or down a burn rate, the differences on target are mostly philosophical. Red Dot shot very well for me in the 44 Special, so does Unique.
Kimber Custom Classic
230 gr LRN 4.5 grs Bullseye 99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass)
16-May-09 high 83 °F OAL 1.250"taper crimp .469"
Ave Vel =805.2
Std Dev =38.07
ES =136.9
High = 912.4
Low =775.5
Number shot=24
230 LRN 5.0 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469" 27 Feb 2010 T = 48 ° F
Ave Vel =802fps
Std Dev =19
ES =61
High = 841
Low =780
Number shot=15
230 LRN 5.5 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469" 27 Feb 2010 T = 48 ° F
Ave Vel =873fps
Std Dev =30
ES =88
High = 922
Low =834
Number shot=11
M1911 Springfield Armory 5” Kart Barrel
230 LRN 5.0 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469" 27 Feb 2010 T = 48 ° F
Ave Vel =803 fps
Std Dev =25
ES =97
High = 867
Low =770
Number shot=16
Accurate, centered
230 LRN 5.5 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP Mixed Military OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469" 27 Feb 2010 T = 48 ° F
Ave Vel =853 fps
Std Dev =29
ES =116
High = 918
Low =802
Number shot=15
very accurate, centered
Rock Island Arsenal GI M1911 5" barrel
230 gr Valiant LRN 5.0 grs Green Dot lot 178 WLP OAL 1.250" taper crimp 0.469"
18-Dec-17 T = 60 °F
Ave Vel = 803.8
Std Dev = 25.92
ES = 89.11
High =853.3
Low = 764.2
Number shots = 14
230 gr LRN Valiant 4.5 grs Bullseye (1998 & 2005) WLP OAL 1.25" taper crimp 0.469"
13-Sep-18 T = 82 °F
Ave Vel = 766.3
Std Dev=12.44
ES = 66.08
High = 805.2
Low = 739.1
Number shots = 26
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,059
I was wondering about replacing some Red Dot loads with #2... Mostly because I was having a very hard time finding Red Dot...or any Alliant Powders!! Since I use Red Dot in virtually all Ctgs I reload, Rifles included ... I did Not wish to Reinvent the Wheel... luckily the supply is Increasing...and I suspect Prices will fall, at least slightly! Once the Red Dot supply is Secured here...I plan on implementing #2. I appreciate the input... So, @Charlie98 , Did you do any .38 Wadcutters???
Charlie98
Member
I did not. By the time I had that RedDot, I was out of the .38/.357 business. I did use it in .44SPC, .45ACP, and .45 Colt.
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,059
Red Dot in .32H&R Mag is a good option for heavy SWC or HP bullets.
We've all been through a lot of the "Scares" and there were a lot of powders that were getting hard to find. It was fun trying out different powders and casting and sometimes powder coating bullets. Ramshot Zip, Clays, HP38/W231, WST, Bullseye, WSF, Long(Loud)shot, CFE pistol and more. It seemed to me that I had better results with the faster burning powders in my gun. I may not be accurate enough to provide a recipe for you though. I think you get to decide what your pistol likes and have a lot of fun figuring it out. In my case WST seemed to be work well with 200gr swc I was making at the time.
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And the "other" .32's as well...especially 32S&W, and S&W Long!!
And Yet...In 45ACP, My Most accurate loads were with AA#7...a considerably Slowwer choice... Some Claim Too Slow!!!
Gotta Shoot 'em and See
BTW I arrived there with the 45 ACP simply because #7 worked so well for the Youngest and his 9mm Sig!!!!!
