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What about JKD?

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Edmond

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May 12, 2004
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Anyone here studied it?

Anyone met Bruce Lee or Dan Inosanto before?

I would like to attend one of Guro Dan's seminars one day.

What is JKD? From what I've gathered, it's concepts with some techniques. I've also gathered that the stronger hand leads?
 
I'm looking for people who have experienced it.

I've been a Hapkido guy for the last 8 years and I'm looking into this.

There seem to be a lot of JKD instructors out there, a lot also claim lineage to Bruce Lee.:eek:
 
while I've never seen JKD except from Bruce Lee movies, from being in a couple real fights, I've decided that fighting dirty is my best bet. I'd start looking around for an Escrima school that focuses on practical applications with the blade.
 
Anyone met Bruce Lee or Dan Inosanto before?

I went to one of Dan Inosanto's seminars in Amsterdam back when I was stationed in Belgium (1988). He had Master Chai, the Thai boxer with him. Thai boxing was really big in the Netherlands then, don't know how it is now. Anyway, you'd never have known by attitude that Dan was a killing machine. Very soft spoken, nice, and a wonderful trainer. Expect to sweat. ;)
 
I've taken JKD and I met Guro Inosanto once (and, yes, he was one of the nicest people I've ever met).

If you're taking HKD then there's no reason to quite taking it and every reason to find a good JKD (Inosanto lineage) school to add to your HKD. Also if your school doesn't teach cane or something else within HKD, take a camp or 2-3 day course that covers new material.

Contact the Inosanto school and ask if there's anyone of their lineage in your area (that way you know something about what you're getting). http://inosanto.com/
 
How about if we've met Bruce Lee's fellow students from Hong Kong, Siu Luk Men?:D In HK Bruce was known as a dancing machine (Chacha champ)!

I've meet the guy (of course could have been more than one) that showed him some praying mantis that you see incorporated in jkd and in his movies (but that may be stuff from Wing Chun too).

Never met Dan but have heard nothing but positive things about him. Thought Dan was more into FMI stick and blade stuff now?

Bumped into jkd guys at qin na seminars. My guess is jkd is like anything else, depends on the teacher and how much effort you are willing to put in. JKD's concepts? Well, yeah, but all CMA styles have concepts. Taijiquan, White Crane, Tiger, Wing Chun, Hung Gar, Praying Mantis, inter alia, they all ramble on about concepts. Heck, Wong Hun Fun wrote dozens of books about concepts in mantis.

Dominant side forward is common to many CMA styles involving techinques in open hand and weaponry.
 
I had a chance to take a seminar from James DeMile, one of the guys who worked extensively with Bruce while he was developing the concepts of JKD. Another great guy that you would never expect to be a deathmachine.
JKD has a lot of really good "out of the box" concepts but it's basically a way to maximize the effectiveness of an existing system rather than a system of it's own. Yes, there are JKD schools out there but they basically take a kitchen sink of anything that works and apply the concepts of The Tao of Jeet Kune Do to them rather than making a true systematic "style" like most you see from traditional schools. To be honest, if you are training with a US instructor there is a very good chance that many JKD concepts are being used by yourself right now just due to the way we tend to utilize techniques from anywhere rather than from a single source.
 
it's basically a way to maximize the effectiveness of an existing system rather than a system of it's own

I agree with this. I've attended a few JKD seminars and found ways to enhance certain aspects of Aiki-Jitsu (economy of motion, strong-side forward, etc), which is what I'm formally trained in.

I don't think I'd seek out JKD to learn it as a style, per se, but it certainly can't hurt to refine your Hapkido. If you attend a seminar you'll be surprised how much you already know, especially after studying for 8 years.

Another option is to check out the folks who are teaching practical self defense instead of a pure martial arts system. As the name implies, the techniques taught are used to disable an opponent in a real-world setting...not sparing or grappling with someone in a prolonged battle of skill and strength.

Have fun,
DFW1911
 
I took a Kali/Escrima seminar with one of Guru Inosanto's students before but never JKD.
 
JKD.

I'm a certified JKD instructor under two well known adherents.

The hardest part about learning JKD is to find a good instructor. Look for someone who teaches Jeet Kune Do Concepts as opposed to straight up JKD (also called Jun Fan Kung Fu). Jun Fan is what Bruce originally taught, JKD concepts is what Dan Inosanto developed later on. Anyone who teaches JKD Concepts can also teach Jun Fan, but not the other way around.

JKD is ONLY about practical self-defense. It has no sport element. It has no katas. What it does have is lots of sparring and some very unique training tools and exercises. In fact, the big secret to JKD is the way people train in it, and this can only be done in very small classes or one on one. So if an instructor has more than 12 people in a class, don't bother with it. And if they're wearing any uniforms, doing katas, or worshipping the dojo, walk away. Also ask them how soon they do full contact. If its more than six or seven months, then they probably aren't teaching JKD, and if they're out of shape, you may also want to think twice about it.

Most people who teach JKD Concepts (if they're under Vunak) teach a variation of RAT (Rapid Assault Tactics). If you're only interested in the fastest way to gain some sort of self-defense knowledge, go find a RAT course. It's actually very sophisticated, but quick to learn. Getting good at it, of course, takes time but it is probably the most effective quick learn system out there.

As for JKD Concepts being a kitchen sink approach, well, I understand why people think that. It has a lot of tools taken from other martial arts. The idea is simple -- if it works, use it.

Again, the real brilliance of JKD Concepts is in the training methodology, not in the techniques. I've studied perhaps a dozen different martial arts and am certified to teach three. When it comes right down to it, any system that encompasses all of the different ranges usually has more than enough techniques to be effective. Its the training methodology that's lacking.

When people have a smattering of JKD classes, all they see are the techniques. They don't have a firm grasp of the methodology because they haven't been exposed to all of it. Becoming really profficient at JKD takes a very long time.

JKD is primarily about attribute training. It also encompasses all ranges of fighting. Developing attributes in one range, let alone all of them, is difficult, especially in the beginning. Once students get a firm handle on the training mechanisms (usually takes about two years of private lessons), the rest of the training goes much faster.

My theory on self-defense is quite simple. If you need to learn how to fight very quickly, take a RAT course, start western boxing (or Muay Thai, etc), or join an MMA school (in that order). In other words, do something that involves a lot of actually fighting. If you want to be a complete fighter and end up being much better than you were in the beginning, then go for JKD Concepts.

A note about instruction in JKD: If someone is a FULL instructor under Paul Vunak or one of his students (a number of his students were better than him) from the late 90s, they can fight. If they're a student under Dan Inosanto, they can teach. Look for someone who is either one of their students or studied under one of their students for a long period of time. What you want is the original curriculum that they learned. Regardless of the camp, the beginning lessons are all composed of similar elements. The best way to test this is to take a couple of lessons then map them to elements from RAT, which is widely available online. If those elements aren't there, then they probably aren't teaching what you want.
 
Heh, what carlojohn90 said.

JKD isn't a martial art. The instructors listed on Guro Inosanto's website (http://inosanto.com/) teach a blend of all sorts of martial arts, typically including Bruce Lee's original kickboxing (Jun Fan) along with Muay Thai, Boxing, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Kali/Escrima, etc. Each instructor has their own take on what is important and how to get functional with these arts in a fighting situation. For the record, I wouldn't attend an Inosanto seminar as a beginning student, he teaches A LOT of material in a really compressed timeframe. Great if you are an instructor or a senior level student and looking for more material to train on in your future sessions. Not so great if you're just looking for a foundation or to learn basics.
 
I do mixed martial arts and if you're learning JKD just for the art and beauty of it, congrats. If you are, however, studying it for self-defense... dont expect to win. Even most "thugs" and "gangbangers" are slowly learning brazilian jiu jitsu and boxing which will completely dominate jkd in a real fight. You might wanna learn muay thai, boxing, brazilian jiu-jitsu, and judo for self-defense. Bruce Lee himself said a person that can box and wrestle would easily defeat a kung-fu master with 10+ yrs of experience and himself included. Just thought I'd add and help out. Definitely alot of respect for the arts though.
 
As much respect as I have for MMA, it certainly isn't the end all and be all of fighting. I've done it for a number of years and trained people to do it under Fabio Araujo. I've got a number of amateur MMA fighters that train with me as well as a couple of pros.

To say that someone doing MMA is going to wipe the floor with someone of equal level doing JKD, suggests a misunderstanding of what they both are and the idea that the rules of MMA apply to JKD - or anything else. Properly trained, JKD is MMA, but more organized, trained more effectively, with more techniques, and with rough tricks thrown in.

MMA training is much more like training high school wrestlers than training someone for a street fight. What you see in MMA is a matter of physical prowess maintained for protracted competition, coupled with very basic boxing, very basic Muay Thai, basic wrestling, and fairly advanced jujitsu. All divergent disciplines that aren't strung together very well. MMA matches tend to end up on the ground because the rules put them there, and because most MMA fighters have little skill in anything other than grappling.

The reason for the emphasis on jujitsu isn't because it dominates everything else, its because its the easiest to learn and train. It also happens to be where the money is right now and the training process can be stretched out indefinitely with less chance of getting hurt. We train Machado bjj, not because bjj is the best system ever, but because there's a lot of profit in it and we have a number of competitive fighters running around. All of our JKD guys eventually get to the the purple belt level, but we don't push them because it isn't necessary.

I'll give you a simple drill you can use to test how effective MMA is in a fight where someone really wants to cause you harm:

Put on a pair of protective glasses and tell your training partner to try and stick his fingers in your eye every chance he gets. You can start standing or in the guard, your choice. If he manages to hit your glasses, he wins the fight. If you manage to tap him out or knock him out before he sticks his finger in your eye, you win the fight. Set a time limit of 30 seconds (which is flexible, but no more than one minute). If you win, good for you. If he wins, rethink what you're doing.

This isn't a bash on MMA. I enjoy the competition as much as anyone else. It is also a great beginning training tool. But if people are interested in self-defense as opposed to competition, MMA eventually becomes a dead end.
 
I think your eye gouge drill is a flawed analogy. Landing it does NOT guarantee that you will win the fight, usually they are a set up for subsequent techniques (headbutts, knees, and elbows, etc.) if those techniques are successful they might be fight stoppers, then again they might not.

I believe that JKD is a good system for self defense, especially if you have previous training. But I will continue to pursue both JKD and BJJ-based grappling in order to stay proficient on my toes and on the ground. Also, one of the best ways I know of to avoid takedowns is to be proficient in takedowns.;)

No way is way and all of that fun stuff.:cool:
 
Anyone here studied it?
Studdied in the 1970's @ Sherman Oaks Karate Studio. Owned by Chuck Norris & Bob Wall.

Anyone met Bruce Lee or Dan Inosanto before?
Neither but I've ment many others who came through the studio between 1974 & 1979.
 
Worked with Danny out in Ca. in 1983-1984 on a protection detail he and Larry Hartsell while they were working the night shift at the mansion.

I was director of security for the mansion in Bel-Air East on St. Cloud street. The two of them would work sticky hands for hours in the mansion at 2-5am when it was slow and other detail personnel were out on the grounds.

I've got one of Danny's knives he carried on that detail. When the gig ended and I was headed back to Boston he gave it to me as a momento. Both he and Larry were professional as well as competant in the assigned duties and worked a few times with a few of us on their program while together.

Danny's stick and knife is superb as well.

Brownie
 
I think your eye gouge drill is a flawed analogy

I don't, I think he's on the right track. Okay, maybe one raking of the eyes won't end a fight...but a concerted attack against the eyes probably will.

MMA guys have rules that those who study self-defense related arts don't. For example in MMA there a whole bunch of chokes / strangles you cannot apply. You can't strike the throat or the back of the head, the groin, etc.

The point carlojohn90 is making is quite valid: regardless of what you study that's the "system" you'll use for real when the time is required. If you're a BJJ guy you'll probably try to take them down...if you're a SD guy you'll try a fight-stopping technique before being taken down.

You revert to what you know and what you've trained in. As such JKD is quite a valid self-defense system.

Just my $.02.

Thanks,
DFW1911
 
In no way am I bashing on JKD either, but any MMA fighter that only knows the "basics" of boxing, muay thai , and jiu-jitsu shouldnt be considered an mma fighter. I've trained with BJ Penn and believe me, we do alot of CHALLENGES that other martial arts throw at us. The gracie brothers at one point before jiu-jitsu got really big dominated any other martial arts. You wont have time to poke me in the eyes if I took you down and threw a quick elbow. I dont know how many street fights you've been in, but I've been in alot where my life was on the line and 90% of the time it ends up on the ground. We've had karate masters that've TRIED to poke us in the eyes and even attempted to grab our you know what in a few matches. I will tell you this, even if you manage to poke my eyes... what will you do once I grab that wrist and arm after the poke and submit you into an armbar or of sort? I can tell you arent too familiar with jiu-jitsu either as our eyes play very little role when it comes to feel and submitting.
 
Actually let me take all this back. I'm getting ahead over myself and alot of pride is showing. I apologize for posting what I did. I just reread everything and I sound like a D**k.
 
To Edmond (OP),

I hope you were able to gain some insight into your original question on the validity of JKD.

As you can see, opinions vary and this has deteriorated into a "my style versus your style...you clearly don't know" sort of discussion, so I'm extracting myself from it.

Anyway, I hope we brought some value.

Take care and good luck in your studies!

DFW1911
 
For example in MMA there a whole bunch of chokes / strangles you cannot apply.

This isn't true.
You can't strike the throat or the back of the head, the groin, etc.

This is true, but how does one go about practicing these strikes on live people (without injuring them)?
 
Look up Matt Thornton with Straight Blast Gym... He works with a lot of other schools and just about anything he does is legit. Maybe that gym is in your area anyway... He does JKD and MMA, BJJ. Real "warrior". Has the philosophy to go with it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScOPEO31vmI
 
Just for your information guys. You might wanna look into the history of mma. This is why mma exist and people cross-train now. The your style vs my style thing has been way past us about 7-10 yrs ago. Matt Thornton is a joke, I've never been to a gym where they dont drill with resistance. Its always alive and resistance. The "true" form of JKD doesnt even incorporate bjj in it as it wasnt even matured or recognized yet. If so, the JKD you talk about "now" isnt what bruce lee had laid down as foundation. You think those guys in mma just lay there? Come to my gym and train with me and bj penn. You might want to look him up also. I thought I was being rude earlier and apologized for it, but some people on here just need to face reality sometimes. I will gladly accept any challenges.
 
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I have respect for BJ Penn and respect for MMA. As much as I should for anyone I don't know and any system of instruction. But, after reading the initial post, I've realized that the thread is being hijacked. So I would like to apologize for that as well.

As to the initial questions, I've trained with Dan Inosanto on a number of occasions. He's a remarkable man, but he likes to use a lot of Filipino drills in his seminars, which can get frustrating for people who are unfamiliar. I'm basing this on what I saw several years ago when he came to CT. Things may have changed since then. Other than that, I've gone to his school, but that wasn't in anyway similar to what I saw at the seminars.

I'm not old enough to have met Bruce Lee.

JKD initially trains with a strong hand lead, but after a while its up to the student as to which he is more comfortable with.

To add a bit about bjj and JKD:
JKD Concepts incorporates bjj and did so long before it became popular in the US. Jun Fan, which is what Bruce Lee originally taught, does not. Paul Vunak started working with the Gracie's in the 1980s and Dan Inosanto has worked with the Machados for many years. Most of the people teaching JKD Concepts come out of the Vunak camp at this point, so they're under the Gracie influence but with a lot Filipino mixed in.

Jun Fan vs JKD Concepts
As for "true" JKD vs "JKD Concepts" that's a very complex question. Many people believe that JKD Concepts is "true" JKD, while the original JKD (Jun Fan) is stagnant and therefore irrelevant. Lately this has come up a lot, with even Dana White of the UFC making some comments about it (he's apparently a JKD enthusiast). From an instructional standpoint, it only makes a difference to people teaching Jun Fan. JKD Concepts people teach both, so if you're looking at a school, that would be a good place to start.

As for the MMA stuff:
I don't think anyone was bashing the sport. I certainly wasn't. But having taught both MMA and JKD (and straight up jits), I'm quite aware of the differences, and, for that matter, similarities between the two. There's nothing new under the sun in either and I see no value in a vs discussion.

Real fighting:
And...I've been in a number of very "real" fights. I don't get a thrill from "real" fighting and anyone who does hasn't suffered, or seen, the consequenes. My paycheck no longer covers rolling around on the ground with people. Training is just a hobby, and treated as such.

At this point, I think that DFW1911 has the right idea. Apologies for any hijacking. If anyone has any question about JKD, I assume there's an email function somewhere on this thing.
 
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