What accuracy is considered good out of a Kentucky long rifle

[Mintx44]

I built a Kentucky long rifle from a traditions kit quite a few years back and have been shooting it for the past few months it has a 33 inch 50 caliber barrel, I'm able to put 5 shots into a medium size wooden crate about the size of a milk crate at 100 yards but they're not really in a tight group maybe 8-12inches,but I can't get the group to shrink much smaller than that, is this what would be considered decent accuracy out of this gun?, should it be a way smaller group?, i'm not sure if I'm putting modern firearm accuracy expectations onto these guns.

Thank you for your time

 

[Armored farmer]

I shoot at the famous Tennessee farm of Alvin York at the annual memorial shoot.
We shoot off a rest at 60yds.
10rd groups measures each shot from the center of the X bullseye.
The winners are shooting an average of within an inch of the bullseye x.

 

[hawg]

You might have to play with powder charges and patch thickness. I assume you're using a round ball. If you're using a conical those are exceptional groups.

 

[Mintx44]

Yea I am shooting round balls, I've been experimenting with paper cartridges for it, using a design similar to old musket cartridges, rolling a round ball into a tube that specs to 0.5035 around the ball as a patch and pouring powder charge into the tube folding the end over, then when ready to fire I tear the end off dump powder down the barrel and tear the tube off close to the bottom of the ball and raming down against the powder, but I'm probably going to switch back to lubed patch and ball and just measure out powder charges and keep those in paper tubes and see if that improves accuracy

 

[.38 Special]

My belief is that most of them are more accurate than can be proven with typical "traditional" sights and triggers. I suspect that four to six MOA is well within the capabilities of the "average" gun, with good triggers and scopes.

With buckhorn sights and a so-so trigger, ten MOA is going to be more realistic.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

With the right powder charge and patch it should be throwing them through the same hole at 50 yards. My 50s seem to do best with a 65 grn powder charge , a .490 ball and a canvas duck .018 patch lubed with Pine sol. I don't have scopes on my muzzleloaders, just traditional sights. They shoot better than I can.

 

[Mintx44]

I'll try that, I'm using the standard iron sights that come with it, it's got double set adjustable triggers, I'm gonna lighten the set trigger i left it as it was when I built it, but even after setting it it's still pretty heavy, I've been using a 75 grn charge with paper cartridges i talked about earlier but i have lubed .05s,.10s and .15s thick patches around that im gonna switch to instead and see if that improves accuracy as well as lowering the powder charge To 65 grains

 

[teerex.otw]

You didn’t mention whether your rifle is flint or percussion (not familiar with what Traditions offers, but I’ve seen others come in both flavors).
Also, what powder are you using ?

 

[hawg]

My 50's shot better with 90 grain charges but those were 1:48 twist. My .54 shoots best with a 90 grain charge with a 1:66 twist.

 

[Mintx44]

Sorry my bad, it's percussion lock, and I'm using 2ffg triple 7, it's all thats avaliable around where I live

 

[243winxb]

I am shooting round balls

When loading the ball, it must stay round. To much pressure to seat the ball may produce an out of round ball.
Pure lead balls swaged may be more accurate then cast. No sprue cut off to center on loading.

Upping the powder charge may help, allowing the ball to obturate. Grab the rifling better.

Between shots, use a oversize Black Powder Bore Brush to clean. Skip lubes & liquids. Works for black powder.

Accurate @100 yards, 5" groups of 5 shots should be possible. Takes young eyes.

Rifle T/C Hawken 45 cal. Flintlock. Set trigger. 3F, 90 grs ball. 110 maxie. Velocity
1900 to 1700 fps.

 

[Mintx44]

I'll give that a try as well swabbing the bore between shots makes alot of sense for accuracy, thank you to everyone who commented and shared their knowledge I greatly appreciate it

 

[Thomasss]

I graduated Cum Laude from "Black Powder Accuracy" website in 2006 by bench resting and putting 5 balls in 10 ring by 3X
Got a nice diploma from "Missouri School of Black Powder Accuracy". You can still get that info in booklet form. The secret is to use old fashion water soluble oil (cutting oil that will mix with water) that produces a milky liquid some people call Moose Milk. The store bought is too watered down.
Soak your patches in that and allow it to dry. Start with 1:7 mix, put a 2 foot strip in soaking, squeeze it out and lay it flat on wax paper; when dry mark it 1:7. (Do not hang it up to dry and also lay it on a non-absorbing surface to get consistent results.) In the same solution the next strip will be 1:6, etc. Keep going down to 1:4. Most people shoot patches with 1:5 to 1:7. I used a shot glass to measure with. Keep the extra "moose milk" as cleaner. You then can do this in any thickness patching. I use 1:7 in either .010 or .008 patch strips. Clean the barrel every two shots by cutting a patch, folding in half, adding one drop of the same liquid and then folding again to make the patch slightly damp and use it to wipe the barrel. Keep doing that until the patch comes our slightly grey. Then use a dry patch and shoot a couple of caps. It seems like a lot of work, but I can site in at 50 and sometimes at 100 yards and group better than people with conventional rifles with scopes! Now the booklet will give additional information on how to read your groups with more tips.
The author passed away a few years ago but taught people how to shoot BP in international Olympic type matches. Most of his pupils were Europeans, not Americans. Go figure, eh.
Remember to put the sprue cut straight up or straight down when loading. I got my diploma with a .50 cal Lyman Great Plains Hunter percussion, 1:33, but have also done it with a Thompson Center Hawkens .50 cal. 1:48.

 

[Frulk]

Mint. Do you know the twist rate of your barrel? Slower (i.e 1 in 66 is better for round balls) 1/48 is a compromise for shooting maxi balls. Kentucky rifles should be 1/66 as a rule. Hawkens I see predominantly in 1/48

 

[hawg]

The Traditions twist should be 1:60. You don't want the sprue down. Imperfections on the rear of the ball affect accuracy more than imperfections on the front of the ball. 2 inch groups of five shots at 100 yards is doable with good eyes and a good barrel.

 

[Mintx44]

It has a 1:66 twist rate, I'll keep the spur in mind thank you for mentioning it I never considered that

 

[dave951]

I built a Kentucky long rifle from a traditions kit quite a few years back and have been shooting it for the past few months it has a 33 inch 50 caliber barrel, I'm able to put 5 shots into a medium size wooden crate about the size of a milk crate at 100 yards but they're not really in a tight group maybe 8-12inches,but I can't get the group to shrink much smaller than that, is this what would be considered decent accuracy out of this gun?, should it be a way smaller group?, i'm not sure if I'm putting modern firearm accuracy expectations onto these guns.

Thank you for your time

Like several have suggested already, you probably need to stick with a patch round ball in that gun for best accuracy. Wipe between shots, patch thickness is critical, patch lube is critical. One thing not mentioned- bench technique is CRITICAL. Handling the gun like a modern arm on the bench will never give you the ultimate accuracy your gun is capable of. From a bench, you need to be as upright as possible to duplicate an offhand position. Do NOT rest the forearm directly on a bag. Put your forward hand where you would offhand and rest the back of that hand on the bag. No other bags needed. The reason is the recoil impulse of these guns is very different from a modern one and couple that with a traditional style stock designed for offhand shooting in a stance modern shooters don't use and you have a shortcut to frustration. If at all possible, get some real black powder in 3f.

Example of what's possible with just changing bench technique. Owner of this Kibler Colonial couldn't get better than 5in at 50yd using modern bench technique. He handed me the gun, changed nothing on the load, and I used the technique just described and the pic shows the difference. He changed to the method I showed him and he shot just as well. 4 shot group, 1 called flyer and yes, I called it just as I pulled the trigger. Group at 100yd was about 2in.

 

[Savage30L]

I used to have a .50 caliber CVA Hawken percussion that was honestly the most accurate rifle I owned (and which I stupidly got rid of). With a .490 patched round ball and 90 grains of Pyrodex RS I could put 5 shots into a 3/4" group at 50 yards from a good rest.

I wish I still had that gun. It seems to me that you should be getting better accuracy than that with the Traditions rifle.

 

[PapaG]

A decent KY or PA rifle with a well fitting patch and ball should be capable of ragged holes at 50 yards from the bench and 2-3 MOA at 100. You should see what the boys turn in at Friendship.
I've put, on occasion, three in three inches with my Douglas barrelled flint lock at 100. Usually a lot worse. My wife's .31 percussion full stock with Num rich barrel has shot quite a few "possibles" at fifty off cross sticks.
Many of the more modern, cheaper shallow grooved guns are harder, IMO, to get good accuracy.
Read " The Muzzle Loading Cap lock Rifle" by Ned Roberts and "The Bullets Flight" by FW Mann. Incredible stiff a hundred years plus ago.

 

[Pete D.]

Three shots. 100 yards. .490 lrb/0.010 patch. 90 grains FFg