"What are you shooting at?"

[Fred Fuller]

Training is a worthwhile thing for any number of reasons, but the main thing a good trainer does is to push your personal horizons back a good ways, on multiple fronts. You learn things about your firearm, your gear, your choice of ammo, your ability to run your gun, and how to bring all those things together to successfully solve a critical personal problem under severe pressure.

And sometimes you get introduced to ideas you should have thought about, but just never had wrapped your mind around before. Apparently that happens to lots of folks. Take a look at http://www.tacticalanatomy.com/ for some ideas about one particular idea that might not have crossed your mind before in this specific way. I ran across this site in passing, while looking for something else, and it prompted me to start this thread.

Some here know I'm a big fan of Louis Awerbuck. One of the things Louis does is shift to three-dimensional targets as soon as possible in a class, and start encouraging students to think about where bullets will be going inside their particular target. Take a look at the pictures posted in the review at http://www.louisianaselfdefense.com/wp/?page_id=34 , and scroll down to the one captioned "Targets, YFA Style."

That's because Louis (and any number of other trainers as well) teach GUNFIGHTING, not target shooting. It's easy to get into the 'shoot center of mass' mindset, shooting flat two dimensional targets on a flat range, but gunfights are dynamic events, not static ones. And your target in a gunfight is a THREE-dimensional target, not a flat piece of cardboard. It's a target that isn't likely to display itself at convenient 90 degree angles, either- see the odd tilts those target stands are set up to display? That isn't an accident.

I know some here are forced by circumstances beyond their control not to use 'humanoid' targets- their range won't allow it. I know there are lots of other complications in the way of 'realistic' practice at many ranges.

All I can say is, do your best to get yourself into a good class with an instructor who will teach you some of the things you need to know. Once you feel secure in your ability to practice of some of these skills safely on your own, then you can look for a range which gives you more latitude. But please- train first- then practice. Training implies an instructor in my book.

And one thing that is not subject to physical limitations is your ability to conceptionalize and visualize what you need to be doing in the event you ever need to put sights on a human target. Can't imagine what's where inside the human body, and don't want to take an anatomy and physiology class to learn? Then take a look at http://www.nlm.nih.gov/research/visible/animations.html . Some study at that site might help you learn some of the things you need to know.

I'll leave this for discussion at this point, with the warning that we will keep it High Road. I want this to be an opportunity for serious thought, discussion and education, not a comedy routine. 'Big boy' rules apply...

lpl

 

[sm]

Excellent topic!

And your target in a gunfight is a THREE-dimensional target, not a flat piece of cardboard. It's a target that isn't likely to display itself at convenient 90 degree angles, either- see the odd tilts those target stands are set up to display? That isn't an accident.

Movement.

In a gunfight there will be movement.

1. The threat.
2. You.

Mentors & Elders not only shared with me three dimensional, odd angles, and other things as Lee's original post shares, also movement.
Hence the reason I pass forward as I do.


Lee reminded me of something as I shared with him, I am getting together some things for new shooters.

Balloons.

I will be using balloons to represent "vital organs" which will be inside a cardboard box, and "dressed", and at odd angles, tilted, moving...and includes female apparel.

When a "vital" is hit, the balloon will burst, allowing target to drop/fall.









Steve

 

[Cosmoline]

Combining movement with shooting handguns has been sorely lacking in my own practice. There's no way they'll allow it at the range.

I've found actually going out and shooting critters to be helpful, at least as far as movement and visualizing three dimensional spaces. But then again squirrels don't shoot back. It's better than nothing.

 

[BullfrogKen]

A lot of what we do in training is dissect a small piece of a big animal into manageable pieces, master them, and then expand our plate.


Sometimes we're limited to what we can do because of practical limitations. We don't want to hurt each other, so we do things like spar and engage in role-playing and force-on-force activities. It exposes us to a piece.

Another is we work shoothouses or other complex problems to learn angles in a 3-D environment. It helps us put the Four Rules into practice enough such that we internalize them in unfamilar, challenging and complex environments.

We learn to do things on the move rather than on square ranges, so we learn to move and pay attention to what's around us, not just what's directly in front.


Even without a live-fire range that can both physically and socially accomodate us, all those things I just mentioned can be practiced. Air soft has come a LONG way, and these lessons can be practiced in relative safety with Air soft.


The biggest challenge we face is learning what to practice. Good professional instruction expands our minds to things we hadn't considered. Once we are shown where the path starts, and we begin to walk down the path, the way forward presents itself.

 

[Jon_Snow]

I think a lot of us, myself included, have very few opportunities to practice shooting at moving targets with rifles or handguns. But almost avyone can get out to a trap, skeet, sporting clay or other clay game range. I know they aren't the same, but at the very least you can prove to yourself that you can hit a moving target, that leading a target is not rocket science and that you will very quickly be able to develope a good 'feel' for it.

You don't need a $5000 trap gun to learn any of this. Last night I took a $120 H&R Pardner single shot 12 ga out to the trap range and shot pretty damn well. I've been shooting trap for about a year now and I've been able to make good first round hits on running squirrels at 100+ yards that I never could have made before.

As Lee said, good training should show you that you are capable of things you may have thought you weren't. So if you don't have access to a range that has moving targets, give the clay games a try.

 

[Shadow 7D]

The Key is training, then understanding basic human anatomy. When I was in the army, I was a medic, and the conversations we had with some of our docs frankly made some people green, then there were the classic, like one PA, former Special Forces, explaining the proper knife attacks on the quarter turn (arm pit, knife sideways) in the middle of a very crowded building.

BUT, it also come down to putting yourself in the mindset DURING training that this isn't target shooting, having the goal to practice like you plan to fight, otherwise you end up fighting like you practice, (yes been there) and it sucks when you hit the

UH, what do I do now?

That's a blank, a stop, can be very bad for you, especially if you hit it first and it keeps you from engaging when you should.

To anatomy, truthfully, I practice center mass from the draw, I guess that I don't have the confidence that I can take carefully aimed shots, rather my focus is to put up a number of rounds quickly to center mass to gain the momentum in fight. I also don't expect the first exchange to the be last.

 

[steveracer]

I go to the local flower shop and buy a bunch of Mylar helium balloons.
I tie them to a remote control car, and drive them around the gravel pit range. They move like crazy, but farly reliably. Shooting these is a great challenge and training tool for my trainees.
Try it. It's cheap, and it's easy.