What cartridge would you like to see made?
- Thread starter brutus51
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Sovblocgunfan
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Laidler et al will tell you SMLEs and other variants were designed with a flat base bullet in mind. They will often keyhole with spitzers if the bore and chamber are in less than perfect condition.
Why not a fbsp? Such as a sierra prohunter? I have yet to find a gun that can't run a flat based spitzer? Boattail spitzers may not be so generous I grant you.....
Garandimal
member
.270 WCF w/ a 165 gr. AccuBond Long Range Bullet.
No, wait...
Well, then a 1:8.5 twist .270 WCF rifle to shoot that new 165 gr. AccuBond Long Range Bullet.
GR
No, wait...
Well, then a 1:8.5 twist .270 WCF rifle to shoot that new 165 gr. AccuBond Long Range Bullet.
GR
codytrucker
Member
.357 Bain & Davis in lever guns. .30 carbine in a light bolt action { same bolt face as a .22 hornet} .327 fed henry single shot , lighter then the .357 ..375 JDJ in levers.
I for one would love to see a rimless.357 Magnum, of course I'd also need an M1 carbine chambered for it.
There was/is the 9x23 Winchester, it uses 9mm bullets and operates at 55,000 psi, obtaining 1400 fps 125 grain out of a 5 inch handgun barrel.
22tcm or 22 hornet?
troy fairweather
Member
I like the tcm but don't know if the rifle will hold up, it's pretty much a big 22lr action.
The necks are real thin on the hornet, brass is not as cheap it once was.
This would be cool.
22 rimfire hornet.
I would throw my money at that if they loaded it with 35 VMAX.
Or resurrection of the 5mm mag. In a legit action. Not the Remington POS it was in.
I saw one. Didn't jump on it and it was going the next day. I really want one. I just don't know if ria is up to snuff on rifle accuracy.
troy fairweather
Member
I've seen some pretty good group, there getting over 2800 fps with the 40gr that's pretty dang good. The action from what I've read and see is on the cusp of being strong enough.
I want to see a 28 gauge shotshell necked (crimped?) down to .50 cal.
It's not much of a modification, as 28 gauge is already .55 cal.
Why?
As a .50 cal, it can be chambered in "pistols". Sure, there needs to be minimal rifling, but the tradeoff is there's no minimum overall length requirement, and such a firearm should clearly be non-NFA according to the actual letter of the law rather than a tenebrous ATF interpretation.
Secondly, it should have a payload of around an ounce. Not amazing, but about twice that of a .410 Judge.
One particular fantasy is a "pistol" resembling a SxS Lupara, or something resembling an over the counter Serbu Super Shorty or Safety Harbor KEG-12 would also be quite neat. Additionally, the lower recoil from the lower caliber would be quite welcome.
If we could swing it as a "rifle" caliber, it might also be neat in something resembling a (minimally rifled) 870 or Mossy 500 (or Maverick!) with a 16" barrel.
It might look something like a Greener police shell:
It's not much of a modification, as 28 gauge is already .55 cal.
Why?
As a .50 cal, it can be chambered in "pistols". Sure, there needs to be minimal rifling, but the tradeoff is there's no minimum overall length requirement, and such a firearm should clearly be non-NFA according to the actual letter of the law rather than a tenebrous ATF interpretation.
Secondly, it should have a payload of around an ounce. Not amazing, but about twice that of a .410 Judge.
One particular fantasy is a "pistol" resembling a SxS Lupara, or something resembling an over the counter Serbu Super Shorty or Safety Harbor KEG-12 would also be quite neat. Additionally, the lower recoil from the lower caliber would be quite welcome.
If we could swing it as a "rifle" caliber, it might also be neat in something resembling a (minimally rifled) 870 or Mossy 500 (or Maverick!) with a 16" barrel.
It might look something like a Greener police shell:
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
WestKentucky
Member
327 federal mag rimless. Also 327 federal magnum necked down to 25 caliber shooting a 50ish grain FTX type bullet.
Cartridge distinctives can include things like caliber, case capacity, straight or bottleneck, neck angles, overall length, head size, primer pocket size, and rim style. To truly be unique, one would need to have a lot of unique distinctives, and that would almost certainly result in it being unpopular. Few would appreciate an exclusive caliber for which no bullets are presently made, a case size or length that doesn't fit any existing actions, non-standard primer size, and some novel method of headspacing. Naturally, there would be a rare contingent that would appreciate it for just those reasons.
The most difficult and unlikely obstacle to overcome would be the availability of bullets. If someone came up with a cartridge that is basically a .223 necked to .180" or .325" it wouldn't fly. Most of the cartridges that do succeed are based on something else that exists, is popular, and which has one thing borrowed from another popular cartridge. We can look at the "cartridge families" and see that they consist of a given parent cartridge, adapted to the most popular features of other cartridge families. .308 was unique except the caliber that was shared with .30-30, .30-40 Krag, .30-03 and its derivative .30-06, but the .308's family then consists of a .277" version akin to the 270 Winchester, and a .358" version akin to the 35 Whelen. Even when another nearly-novel cartridge was developed, the 30 TC, it was not surprisingly .308", and it's most popular derivative was .264" or "6.5mm"
I am quite content with the cartridges out there and I think a more disruptive technology like polymer cases, careless, electronic ignition or some other more radical departure is more needed for innovation than just a different size or shape brass cylinder.
Nevertheless, if I had to pick something to "invent," I would stick with a caliber for which plenty of good bullets are made, and I'd probably just change the method of headspacing. Therefore:
A rimmed rifle cartridge or family for single shot (and double) rifles. It would not be affected by a need for shortness to fit into magazines or limited action lengths. It would still be affected by the principles that result in fatter cartridges being more efficient than skinny ones. Since I would rather not see an extremely overbore barrel-burner, I would probably favor to have it in a larger caliber. But since I also don't favor excessive recoil or see much point to monster-slayers when at best I rarely get to hunt light deer, I might prefer something between .243" and .277"
A belted revolver cartridge, probably in .357" I could favor a .400 or .410" and there are some bullets made, though crimp grooves and canalures are more likely to be found on the rarer .410". The real shortcoming of those calibers is a dearth of revolvers chambered for them and potentially a misfit in popular revolver frame sizes. Since this is pure fantasy conjecture, I'm proposing revolvers with belted cartridges to allow a closer spacing of chambers in the cylinder. The belt, as you know, was invented by H&H for headspacing a straight-walled cartridge. Freedom Arms applied the concept to the .50 WE for the reason I'm suggesting, but I think it has merit in more revolvers such as midsize double-actions. I realize that chamer spacing isn't the only thing that keeps us from shrinking existing revolvers and what I'm suggesting might still need whole new frames to realize any great benefit, but possibly we could see a 7-shot 41 Belted Magnum N frame or a 6 shot 41 Belted Magnum L frame. I'd also prefer it if the primer was small. I just see no point to LPP other than the fact that they pre-existed. At least there's no reason to perpetuate LPP for a new cartridge.
The most difficult and unlikely obstacle to overcome would be the availability of bullets. If someone came up with a cartridge that is basically a .223 necked to .180" or .325" it wouldn't fly. Most of the cartridges that do succeed are based on something else that exists, is popular, and which has one thing borrowed from another popular cartridge. We can look at the "cartridge families" and see that they consist of a given parent cartridge, adapted to the most popular features of other cartridge families. .308 was unique except the caliber that was shared with .30-30, .30-40 Krag, .30-03 and its derivative .30-06, but the .308's family then consists of a .277" version akin to the 270 Winchester, and a .358" version akin to the 35 Whelen. Even when another nearly-novel cartridge was developed, the 30 TC, it was not surprisingly .308", and it's most popular derivative was .264" or "6.5mm"
I am quite content with the cartridges out there and I think a more disruptive technology like polymer cases, careless, electronic ignition or some other more radical departure is more needed for innovation than just a different size or shape brass cylinder.
Nevertheless, if I had to pick something to "invent," I would stick with a caliber for which plenty of good bullets are made, and I'd probably just change the method of headspacing. Therefore:
A rimmed rifle cartridge or family for single shot (and double) rifles. It would not be affected by a need for shortness to fit into magazines or limited action lengths. It would still be affected by the principles that result in fatter cartridges being more efficient than skinny ones. Since I would rather not see an extremely overbore barrel-burner, I would probably favor to have it in a larger caliber. But since I also don't favor excessive recoil or see much point to monster-slayers when at best I rarely get to hunt light deer, I might prefer something between .243" and .277"
A belted revolver cartridge, probably in .357" I could favor a .400 or .410" and there are some bullets made, though crimp grooves and canalures are more likely to be found on the rarer .410". The real shortcoming of those calibers is a dearth of revolvers chambered for them and potentially a misfit in popular revolver frame sizes. Since this is pure fantasy conjecture, I'm proposing revolvers with belted cartridges to allow a closer spacing of chambers in the cylinder. The belt, as you know, was invented by H&H for headspacing a straight-walled cartridge. Freedom Arms applied the concept to the .50 WE for the reason I'm suggesting, but I think it has merit in more revolvers such as midsize double-actions. I realize that chamer spacing isn't the only thing that keeps us from shrinking existing revolvers and what I'm suggesting might still need whole new frames to realize any great benefit, but possibly we could see a 7-shot 41 Belted Magnum N frame or a 6 shot 41 Belted Magnum L frame. I'd also prefer it if the primer was small. I just see no point to LPP other than the fact that they pre-existed. At least there's no reason to perpetuate LPP for a new cartridge.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
I wish to present the Two Ninty Niche.
The “New Kid on the Block” for Uber Operators!
It has a much better sectional density and can be driven faster than a Blackout for better terminal effect.
Or go slow and quiet, like its ever so slightly larger sibling.
For home defense it can be fired through a thirty caliber barrel to induce tumbling at very short ranges. (A No-Go for suppressors, in that configuration.)
The crux of the matter was finding no commercially made bullets in a reasonable price range. Twenty nine caliber bullets make fourteen caliber bullets seem cheap!
And making brass from cutting down .222 magnum cases gets expensive!
Well, that and Two Ninty Niche marketing must be a niche market, there are no marketers to spiel my Niche to the Marks whose niches need filling!
The “New Kid on the Block” for Uber Operators!
It has a much better sectional density and can be driven faster than a Blackout for better terminal effect.
Or go slow and quiet, like its ever so slightly larger sibling.
For home defense it can be fired through a thirty caliber barrel to induce tumbling at very short ranges. (A No-Go for suppressors, in that configuration.)
The crux of the matter was finding no commercially made bullets in a reasonable price range. Twenty nine caliber bullets make fourteen caliber bullets seem cheap!
And making brass from cutting down .222 magnum cases gets expensive!
Well, that and Two Ninty Niche marketing must be a niche market, there are no marketers to spiel my Niche to the Marks whose niches need filling!
Jim Watson
Member
I say, old chap, would you rather have a .240 H&H or a .246 Purdey? Or jump clear up to the .275 H&H Magnum or the .275 Rigby No 2 Magnum. In between, the .256 Mannlicher (6.5x53.5R Dutch Mannlicher) was a popular sporting calibre in England at one time.
That would take some fancy extractor work. Just as well make a rimmed round with a barely adequate rim like new make drawn brass .45 Colt. Or just a .40 S&W or 10mm revolver with clips. I know that can be done on a six shot L frame, but I doubt it will get you a 7 shot N frame.
By golly, you've got the idea! The Purdey. The H&H cartridges would be overbore barrel burners with a vestigial belt (ironic considering my second request), and the Rigby is with us as the 7x57, isn't it? and not rimmed. It doesn't surprise me that there was already something like I proposed, since there's nothing new under the sun. I would do it slightly differently because times have changed. I'd want .243" bullets because of the preponderance of those. I imagine with modern pressure and powders it would match or best the .243 Winchester, and with the right bullets and no magazine length restriction it would match or best 6mm Creedmoor, and in a modest single-shot (or a not so modest double) it would have a shorter action than 6mm ARC/PPC/BR bolt guns.
A single-action ejector would work fine. I would go with clips in a double-action -- wouldn't have one without them. Clips solve the extraction issue, but I don't believe .40 S&W/10mm revolvers headspace on the clips. Don't they headspace on the case mouth? I think you're probably right about 6-shot 410" L frame but no 7-shot N frame.
Ttexastom
Member
How about a 6.5/06 or a 25 souper?
Jim Watson
Member
A short version of the .29 Express.
Handloader magazine once did a writeup on a .29 round.
Turned out it was the 7.35mm Italian treated as though it were a new product.
The test rifle was a nicely sporterized Carcano, you really had to look twice to see what it was.
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