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What did I buy?
- Thread starter gfpd707
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TfflHndn
Member
What does it say on the can?
hanno
Member
What are you loading?
In your initial post you said it was labeled "International."
International used to be called "International Clays", not to be confused with "Clays" or "Universal Clays". The Hodgdon reloading data site has load data. See if International will work for you.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
In your initial post you said it was labeled "International."
International used to be called "International Clays", not to be confused with "Clays" or "Universal Clays". The Hodgdon reloading data site has load data. See if International will work for you.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
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morcey2
Member
What are you reloading for? If it says Universal or International on it, you got Universal Clays or International Clays. I don't know what the labels for those look like at the moment, but they usually say something like "Using Clays Technology" somewhere on it.I am pretty new to reloading having only reloaded roughly a 1000 rounds. I called the gun store today looking for powder. They told me they had some clays. I picked it up and didn't pay much attention till I got home but it doesn't say clays on the can. Did I get the right stuff?
I think you need to slow down and not buy what the gun store tells you what they have without knowing if it's the right thing for you. If you mistake AA #7 for RL-7, you'll be having a very bad (and possibly short) day when you pull the trigger.
Matt
morcey2
Member
Still, what does the can say on it?
hanno
Member
Does it say "International" on the can or not? As I recall that is what you first said.
morcey2
Member
You're asking us if you got the right powder, but you aren't telling us what the powder actually is.
I guess you are not able to see the pic. It says Hodgdon international but the shop told me its a generation of clays.
hanno
Member
Can't see the pic but International is not the same as Universal or Clays. I have never used International but don't see any reloading data at the Hodgdon reloading data site for the calibers you load. Sounds like gun store misinfo. You wanted Clays, they sold you something else.
morcey2
Member
Yeah, I don't see any picture. International is not a generation of Clays, it's one of the 3 powders in the Clays line of powders, Clays, International Clays, and Universal Clays. I'm not positive, but I don't think you'll find much load data for International for any of the 3 calibers you mentioned. My understanding is that it is designed more as a dedicated shotgun powder and doesn't have much current usage in handguns, with a few exceptions. According to the Hodgdon website, it was designed to be for 20 Gauge reloading what Clays is for 12 Gauge.
I think the one that you wanted was actually Universal, which has more, well, universal application. I know that there is tons of data for Universal in 38 spl, 9x19, and 45 ACP.
Matt
Yes, you got sold a shotgun powder sorry to say. Of the Clays family you would want Universal, but it has been out of production for a long time due to a factory fire until just recently. Supposedly, shipments from Aussie land have begun, but you probably have a better chance of finding big foot on the same day as winning the lottery. 
FMJBT
Member
International is the same thing as ADI powder AS50N.
You can look up the msds to verify. It is along the same lines as green dot, 700x, Wst and accurate #5
ADI has published data on their site for the calibers you want to reload, however it is only cast lead bullets. From what I remember, it was only really meant for cowboy action shooting. It's a low charge weight and pressures can get high and spikey fast.
You can look up the msds to verify. It is along the same lines as green dot, 700x, Wst and accurate #5
ADI has published data on their site for the calibers you want to reload, however it is only cast lead bullets. From what I remember, it was only really meant for cowboy action shooting. It's a low charge weight and pressures can get high and spikey fast.
Finally! You started out with what seemed like a cryptic question - and the puzzle continued. Now we see that you tried to include an image with your first post. Looking into the post at the URL, it appears you might have linked to an email page or something like that. It's not a standard jpg type of image.
primalmu
Member
It looks like he's tried to copy the image URL from his email. Unfortunately that won't work. My suggestion is to set up a Photobucket account, upload it there, and post the link they give you.
Sorry about the pic problems it is viewable on my end. I went back to the dealer and told them I could not find any pistol loading data for International. From what I could find it is in the family of clays powder but not the same. The dealer seemed skeptical but did let me exchange it for some winchester 231. My biggest concern is when I called and asked for pistol powder they said they had clays. It is my fault and I should have payed closer attention to what he gave me. I could only guess that he will still sell this as clays.
FMJBT
Member
Wow. They had 231, but the employee pushed international on you?
Never go to that store again.
Never go to that store again.
To be fair I chose clays over the 231 because of familiarity but was not given clays. sadly my choices in central Illinois are very limited.
morcey2
Member
If you were closer, I would have bought the international from you. I'm getting ready to teach my daughter to load for her 20 gauge and that would be perfect. The fact that it was available gives me hope that I'll be able to find real Clays soon. I'm down to about 2.5 lbs.
FMJBT
Member
I understand my, similarly oppressed brother (California native here) .
Good news is that the clays factory is finally rebuilt and operational , and you will start seeing more powder coming in. Summer time should see a decent influx of powder.
hanno
Member
You're going to like the Win 231 - very versatile and meters well.
I'd look for another gun shop to do business with.
International "Clays" is an excellent powder for 9/38/45ACP!
It is a little slower than Clays and a little faster than Universal. Close to Green Dot in burn rate. Look up the real manufacture's load data (ADI) and look for loads using AP50N or AS50N. AS50N is what Hodgdon lables "International" and yes it is typically intended for shotgun loading. ADI sells a finer grained powder with the same formula called AP50N which meters better in small quantities like 5g pistol loads. International will work very will in your cartridges.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Sometimes the learning curve with powder, especially for the new hand loader, can be a steep curve. These are also still difficult times for buying powder. The hit in powder production combined with the massive buy after Sandy Hook made for a perfect storm of sorts. There was a time when the new learning hand loader could open his reloading manual, the manual mentioned a few powders and you went to the store and got what you wanted. Not quite the case today.
Any shop worth its weight in powder or reloading components should have a few shop reloading manuals laying around to assist the customer and the staff should be well versed in not just powder but all reloading components.
Just My Take....
Ron
Any shop worth its weight in powder or reloading components should have a few shop reloading manuals laying around to assist the customer and the staff should be well versed in not just powder but all reloading components.
Just My Take....
Ron
Jim Watson
Member
Well, I see AP50N load data for cast bullets only in 9mm P and .45, with AP50S next in the "equivalency" chart. I guess an advanced handloader could go from there, with the caution that those cast bullet loads top out with high pressures and low velocity. Not a good combination. I would not use International in pistol loads if I had anything more suitable available.
I think it fortunate that the dealer exchanged the OP's International (clays) for a real pistol powder, Win 231.
I think it fortunate that the dealer exchanged the OP's International (clays) for a real pistol powder, Win 231.
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