What do you say on the phone to 911 after a shooting?

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

You were forced to draw and shoot a criminal and you felt that your life was in danger and you were justified. Now you have to call 911, what exactly do you say to the operater to best inform police what just happened to better prevent yourself from being shot when they arrive?

 

[Starter52]

"Send an ambulance to (my location). There's been a shooting."

 

[Loosedhorse]

Ideally, you should be on the phone before the shooting. Since you're the good guy, the 911 recording is going to help you in court.

Well, situations are not ideal, so you may only get to call after the shooting. Then say:

1. You were attacked, in fear for your life, and defended yourself.
2. You need the police and an ambulance immediately.
3. You will stay on scene to meet the officers.
4. Your name, location and description.
5. "Tell the responding officers not to shoot me. I'm the good guy, I'll do what they say."

Be sure to ask if any witnesses are hurt, and check if you are. Request another ambulance if needed. Reassure witnesses: the police are on their way; you should stay: they'll need to talk to you.

I would have the firearm out of my hand (either in the holster or on the ground with my foot on it) when the officers roll up; hands high.

And pray.

 

[Dnaltrop]

Let me add to #5 .... PLEASE don't shoot me. never hurts to be extra polite

 

[mfcmb]

The latest Concealed Carry magazine from the USCCA has a good article called "The stay out of jail card" by attorney K.L. Jamison which suggests what to say both to 911 and to the police, and why these suggestions legally make sense. For 911 he suggests:

1. Location
2. He tried to kill me
3. I was afraid for my life
4. I defended myself
5. Send an ambulance
6. The scene is safe

Read the article for the legal rationale.

 

[Sam1911]

I'd add, "Please tell the officers I am a ?? year old white male wearing a blue shirt and jeans. I will be in the kitchen of the house. I will have the door on the north side of the house unlocked for them."

You don't want to be any kind of surprise when they get there. I would plan to clear my weapon and step away from it as they pull up to the address, if possible.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Ideally, you should be on the phone before the shooting. Since you're the good guy, the 911 recording is going to help you in court.

Can't do that if the guy has a gun pointed at you in a parking lot.

Sorry I wasn't more specific but I'm thinking of a shooting in public, not someone breaking in.

 

[Birch Knoll]

Can't do that if the guy has a gun pointed at you in a parking lot.
Sorry I wasn't more specific but I'm thinking of a shooting in public, not someone breaking in.

You still want to be the first one to call it in to 911. If somebody else calls it in first, then you're the Man With A Gun. If you call it in, you're the Victim.

Carry a cell phone.

 

[weasle94]

USCCA has a card that they give you that tells you what to say and do and when the police get there you give them the card as it has a statement for you on the back of the card. Also I get insurance from them cheap to help cover me in a shooting even if I am not in the exact right.Well worth the price. Good people

 

[weasle94]

You also must be seen trying to render some kind of first aid when the police get there .Since aids came around ,you need to pull of your T shirt and ball it up and cover the wounds and stand on it.Do not expose yourself to the persons blood.

 

[lobo9er]

You also must be seen trying to render some kind of first aid when the police get there .Since aids came around ,you need to pull of your T shirt and ball it up and cover the wounds and stand on it.Do not expose yourself to the persons blood.

standing on the victim shirtless?

 

[Kleanbore]

If the incident has already occurred, one's objectives are to (1) summon medical aid, (2) report that a crime has been committed, (3) avoid being shot by arriving first responders, and (4) avoid giving potentially incriminating information.

Toward those ends, one wants state that there are injured persons, give the address, request the necessary number of ambulances, and give the first responders the physical description of the armed citizen.

One does not want to describe what happened.

My opinion. discussion welcome.

 

[lobo9er]

*summon medical aid %100 agree,
I would not reccomend standing on anyone though. I'll tell ya I'm glad someone posted to stand on the shootee shirtless though.

 

[Deaf Smith]

"Hullo? Hullo?

I say there, It seems there has been a shooting sir. Or at least someone is shot.

Bloody mess I tell you. Bloke just would not take no for an answer.

Would have used that awful gun he had if I hand not fired a necessary shot.

Please send a ambulance and a bobby or two.

Cheerio!

Deaf"

 

[mortablunt]

1. There's been a shooting.
2. I am <insert adjective here> hurt.
3. I had to act in self defense.
4. Send an ambulance.
5. I have a gun.
6. I am wearing <insert outfit here>.

It is important to let them know that you have a gun, and to let them know what you look like. That way, the cops don't shoot you on impulse.

 

[tazbigdog]

What Starter52 said!

 

[Kleanbore]

What Starter52 said! ("Send an ambulance to (my location). There's been a shooting.")

The potential problem with that, in my opinion, is that when the police arrive and either find that you are armed or learn from others that you were the shooter, you will likely be considered an immediate suspect, if not an immediate danger to the arriving officers.

I believe I would much rather have the 911 operator receive (preferably from someone at the scene whom I have asked to call while I remain alert for accomplices) a description of me for my protection and a statement that I was an armed citizen who had acted lawfully.

The good side of that advice is that it provides nothing that can be used against you.

In After You Shoot, Alan Korwin states that 911 recordings result in a high percentage of the convictions that occur after self defense shootings. That makes this an extremely important topic for all of us. Thanks, FIVETWOSEVEN, for bringing it up. Let's keep this discussion going.

I do recommend Korwin's book, but I'll caution that it takes careful reading and a lot of thought. To illustrate that, the person who submitted the first review in Amazon, who seems to be level headed, got it all wrong: he interpreted one of the several suggestions debated by the several attorneys Korwin assembled as the suggested best course of action, when it was not.

 

[Sam1911]

I'll try:

-----

911, what is your emergency?

"I need a police officer and an ambulance at the parking lot of Jerry's Gas & Grub on the corner of 3rd and North streets.

A man just pulled a gun on me, and I've shot him. I don't know if he's still alive. He's on the ground and not moving.

I'm beside the last set of gas pumps to the south, next to my truck, a tan Ford pickup.

I'm a white male in a green jacket and blue jeans.

I will stay on the line with you and remain right here at the front of my vehicle.

I don't see any other accomplices, so I'm going to put my pistol back into my holster and leave it there.

Please give the officers my description and let them know I will cooperate fully."

-----

I assume there would be several other questions from the 911 dispatcher, but I think most of them are anticipated by one of my statements above.

 

[Loosedhorse]

You also must be seen trying to render some kind of first aid when the police get there

Absolutely not true. I am a strong proponent of rendering first aid to the downed attacker if it makes sense to attempt it. But it may not, and that "must" could put you in a lot of danger.

A man just pulled a gun on me, and I've shot him.

Remember those old Gary Larsen cartoons about "What dogs hear"? Here's my version of "what 911 dispatchers hear":

"Blah blah blah blah GUN blah blah blah blah I'VE SHOT HIM blah blah blah...."

I'd stick with "I was attacked, I was in fear for my life, I defended myself, we need an ambulance and police immediately."

YMMV

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by LoosedHorse: I'd stick with "I was attacked, I was in fear for my life, I defended myself, we need an ambulance and police immediately."

I'm not going to say that that is a bad idea, but I have read (probably in Korwin's book) that "I was in fear of my life" could be used to indicate that the person who was in fear was not in a condition to be reasonable, and to have a reasonable belief that... ..

What the dispatcher hears is important--that could keep one from getting shot, if a description of one is provided.

What the recording has on it becomes critical after the fact.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Sam1911:

"I need a police officer and an ambulance at the parking lot of Jerry's Gas & Grub on the corner of 3rd and North streets.

A man just pulled a gun on me, and I've shot him. I don't know if he's still alive. He's on the ground and not moving.

I'm beside the last set of gas pumps to the south, next to my truck, a tan Ford pickup.

I'm a white male in a green jacket and blue jeans.

I will stay on the line with you and remain right here at the front of my vehicle.

I don't see any other accomplices, so I'm going to put my pistol back into my holster and leave it there.

Please give the officers my description and let them know I will cooperate fully."​

That sounds reasonable to me. Can anyone find fault with it? Can anyone add to it by suggesting the reasons for making each part of the statement, to make this a better teaching tool?

 

[Sam1911]

Remember those old Gary Larsen cartoons about "What dogs hear"? Here's my version of "what 911 dispatchers hear":

"Blah blah blah blah GUN blah blah blah blah I'VE SHOT HIM blah blah blah...."

I'd stick with "I was attacked, I was in fear for my life, I defended myself, we need an ambulance and police immediately."

I see what you're saying, but part of this isn't for the benefit of the dispatcher in the moment, but for the tape record which may come into play at trial. I have no problem having that statement read back to me at trial.

"I've defended myself and we need an ambulance" seems to be skirting the issue a bit, and surely the next question is going to be, "why do you need an ambulance? Is someone hurt? How seriously?" etc. Dancing around the issue, trying to avoid admitting that you shot a man, with a gun, just seems like bad practice to me.

After all, it is the first step to establishing your affirmative defense: Admit that you have done exactly what you did, and then explain the circumstances which will justify that normally criminal act under the law.

"This man attacked me with a gun, and I shot him," is a fine starting point for that defense and I have no problem having that on the 911 tape.


...

Further, even if it is possible to sidestep and obfuscate the fact that you have shot someone, at least up to the point that the police arrive, I'd rather they knew as much about the scene as possible before arriving, including the fact that I am armed and will comply with their instructions.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Sam1911: "This man attacked me with a gun, and I shot him," is a fine starting point for that defense and I have no problem having that on the 911 tape.

Since the forensic evidence will prove that you did shoot him, and since you will not try to deny it, I see no problem with that either.

Further, even if it is possible to sidestep and obfuscate the fact that you have shot someone, at least up to the point that the police arrive, I'd rather they knew as much about the scene as possible before arriving, including the fact that I am armed and will comply with their instructions.

My thoughts exactly.

If there were accomplices who fled, it might well be a good idea to mention that and describe them and where they were going--not as part of your later defense, but to help support the officers sooner rather than later. Thoughts on that, anyone?

 

[Loosedhorse]

this isn't for the benefit of the dispatcher in the moment, but for the tape record which may come into play at trial. I have no problem having that statement read back to me at trial.

It is for my immediate benefit. I must assume that the officers on arriving will have guns drawn, pointed at me. My immediate concern is to stay alive when the responding officers arrive. If it is at all reasonable to assume that my verbiage offers an advantage over yours in that regard, I'll stick with mine. I will also be happy to have my transcript read in court.

"I've defended myself and we need an ambulance" seems to be skirting the issue a bit

If that issue comes up at trial, I will be happy to explain that it is rehearsed verbiage (practiced, just as I practice drawing and shooting), and why I selected those particular words before the shooting, and did not ad lib them afterward.

Admit that you have done exactly what you did

My statement does that: I defended myself from a deadly attack. The police can have ALL the details after I speak to my lawyer. My job is to do the minimal amount of talking at that stage to accomplish my goals of summoning help, establishing me as the good guy (now and at trial), and staying alive.

Not necessarily in that order!

Related: it may well be that the dispatcher will start asking additional questions at that point, as the responders are in route--how should we respond to those questions?

Thoughts on that, anyone?

Yes: every additional word I say to the police is treacherous, "can be used against you." My immediate concerns are the three given above. If additional (armed) accomplices remain at the scene, then of course they represent a danger to me and the responding officers, and I MUST mention them, IMHO. If they have fled, well, then helping apprehend them is not an immediate goal.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by LoosedHorse: My immediate concern is to stay alive when the responding officers arrive.

...which would seem to call for giving your description and location...

My job is to do the minimal amount of talking at that stage to accomplish my goals of summoning help, establishing me as the good guy (now and at trial), and staying alive.

Not necessarily in that order!

And that might be the basis for the opening statement in anything we might end up with from all of this!