What do you say on the phone to 911 after a shooting?

[Sam1911]

it may well be that the dispatcher will start asking additional questions at that point, as the responders are in route--how should we respond to those questions?

Ya! And that brings me back to my point...

...surely the next question is going to be, "why do you need an ambulance? Is someone hurt? How seriously?" etc. Dancing around the issue, trying to avoid admitting that you shot a man, with a gun, just seems like bad practice to me.

What ARE you going to say when the dispatcher says, "Who is hurt? How? How badly?" and so forth?

I don't think you're going to say "I defended myself and the attacker has a gunshot wound...you figure it out!"

I'd like to not use any strategy that makes me look like I'm avoiding admitting something or shirking from plain speaking.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by LoosedHorse: it may well be that the dispatcher will start asking additional questions at that point, as the responders are in route--how should we respond to those questions?

Depends upon the questions. I suggest that one should answer these to the best of one's ability:

• How many people are hurt?
• How many appear to have been hurt seriously?
• What is the location of the injured persons?
• Are any of the attackers still present? Where are they"
• (Anything else necessary to describe your appearance and location)

I do not think it wise to answer any questions at all about what led to the shooting what you had been doing beforehand, what you saw, or what caused you to believe that the shooting was immediately necessary.

 

[Al Thompson]

which would seem to call for giving your description and location

You are assuming the dispatcher gets it right, transmits it right and the responding officers hear it right. Too many rights for me.

Agree with Loosedhorse, expect to get proned out, handcuffed and isolated. Don't be standing there with your weapon in your hand.

 

[Sam1911]

I do not think it wise to answer any questions at all about what led to the shooting what you had been doing beforehand, what you saw, or what caused you to believe that the shooting was immediately necessary.

Is it likely that the dispatcher would ask any of those things?

expect to get proned out, handcuffed and isolated. Don't be standing there with your weapon in your hand.

Yes indeed. That's not a failure on your part or theirs, that's just SOP as they secure the scene. Comply, keep calm, be polite, let them work the scene, and then follow the script about what to say when questioned.

 

[Al Thompson]

You also must be seen trying to render some kind of first aid

IMHO, do not ever get close to someone you've just shot. Get behind cover, scan thoroughly, talk to 911.

The "Plus 1" principal comes to mind. Good to always assume there's one more bad guy and he's trying to flank you. Or that the BG you popped has another gun and if you get close, he may be really mad and want to even the score.

Back to the OP:

IMHO, leave the cell phone open and 911 can monitor what's going on. As Loosedhorse points out, that tape may help you later. You do not have to answer the dispatch operator, but having that open line may be a positive.

 

[thefamcnaj]

This is a very interesting thread.
I would call 911 and tell the dispatcher:
I'm an armed citizen
I was attacked by <insert bg description>
I've shot the bg and he's down. I don't know the extent of his bodily injury.
We need an ambulance and a PO
My weapon will be reholstered and my hands in the air. I'll be standing <insert where you'll be on the scene whe LE arrives>
Now to expand this a bit further if I may.
What do you say to the LEO's who arrive on scene? My ccw instructor, who is a retired LEO, told us to tell the cop simply "I had to stop the threat". Nothing more and nothing less. If I should be pressed for more answers, I simply should reply" I have nothing else to say other than I had to stop the threat". I will answer no more questions until my lawyer is present thank you. Is this ok, or is this to simple?

 

[Sam1911]

What do you say to the LEO's who arrive on scene?

This thread is somewhat an outgrowth of another long thread we just had on that exact question:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=589269

That thread resulted in a "sticky" on the best answers to that question:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=589272

Let's keep this thread focused on the 911 call itself.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by thefamcnaj: I would call 911 and tell the dispatcher...

That raises another important question we should discuss here: when should you call, and when should you ask someone else at the scene to call and relay specific information as requested by you?

 

[Sam1911]

Well, that's a tough one. WE're sitting here rehearsing what it would be most optimal to say. Hand the phone to anyone else (even a spouse or friend) and who knows what message will be conveyed?

My gut feeling is if at all possible, I'd want to be the caller. But circumstances might dictate otherwise.

 

[Loosedhorse]

What ARE you going to say when the dispatcher says, "Who is hurt? How? How badly?" and so forth?

Well, I'm going to tell him as much as I can without endangering myself.

"I have one man down. The guy who attacked me. I haven't approached him because I still think he's still armed and dangerous. Please hurry, I think he's badly hurt."

Or: "I have one man down. The guy who attacked me. He's bleeding heavily, and unconscious. I'm giving first aid as best as I can. Please hurry."

Questions answered. No "GUN" or "I SHOT HIM" needed, and no evasion.

Evasion? How about: "Someone shot him," or "I shot him, by accident." I wouldn't say either.

Remember: the phone's an open line. If the attacker's awake, he may be shouting some obscenities, asking for help, and/or saying "You shot me!" He'll have his message, I'll have mine: I'm not going to help him get his message out.

when should you call, and when should you ask someone else at the scene to call and relay specific information as requested by you?

I call. If there's someone responsible on scene (the manager of the restaurant I'm in, for example) with job-appropriate uniform/suit and name tag (so he is easily identifiable by the officers), I'll ask him to meet the officers as they drive up and point me out as the guy who called them.

I have asked my wife to ridicule me mercilessly if I ever go out with a gun, but no cell phone. A gun solves one problem, a cell phone solves thousands.

 

[orangeninja]

I don't know if someone has already said it or not but make sure you describe yourself to the operator and ask to stay on the line with him/her until officer arrive and make you lay on the ground to handcuff you (which is sure to happen) and LEAVE YOUR PHONE ON so that there is a recording of everything taking place.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Pretty good sequence if statements by Sam1911

It is very important to be the first to call (sets the tone) and to do so personally (accuracy)

1. Put out your location...including where in a parking lot. This is the first line on their dispatch screen and they can start units rolling.
2. What kind of call (to set priority). I was attacked and had to shoot to defend myself -
a. establishes that you are the victim of a crime
b. a gun has been used...set the scene to collect the correct evidence
3. Request medical assistance. They will anyway, but it shows proper concern. You don't have to render a medical opinion unless you are qualified to do so...I would go with "Attacker/suspect is down, send Fire and Medical"
4. State if there are suspects outstanding. The last thing you want is for the officers to take a statement from an unknown accomplice
4. Give a physical description of yourself (remember to mention race) and your clothing (top to bottom). You really want them to be able to identify you when the officers roll up

I would be reluctant to make a statement that can not stand alone without further explanation/justification or one that could be seen as being evasive. The first impression that statement will make is the one that will color any future expansion.

Setting the scene, as you saw it, at that first contact, will go a long way setting the tone of how the rest of the investigation will proceed

 

[Loosedhorse]

a gun has been used...set the scene to collect the correct evidence... State if there are suspects outstanding.

I am not sure why this would need to be mentioned on the call, as opposed to directly to the officers when they arrive. I agree that I should help identify evidence and witnesses (or suspects) at the scene, but that does not have to be done during the 911 call.

would be reluctant to make a statement that can not stand alone without further explanation/justification

Then, when you attempt to remain silent waiting for you lawyer, an interrogating officer or detective will have an easy opening: "You can't just remain silent. You need to explain yourself right now. Otherwise, it looks really bad. It looks like you know you're guilty, so you're being evasive."

Me? I'm keeping quiet, beyond what I've already indicated I would say, until I've spoken to my lawyer. Anyone else can explain as much as they want immediately to the police.

could be seen as being evasive.

I disagree, but let's say you're right. Perhaps then I can say, "Mentioning guns and shooting people could be seen as you being an immediate danger to the responding officers."

Me? I'd rather be perceived as evasive than dangerous--or murderous--when the officers arrive. Especially as my subsequet statements--not to mention my call and waiting to be arrested--will demonstrate I'm not evasive.

If, instead, I'm mistaken for dangerous and shot, well, any subsequent statements I might be able to make will not un-shoot me. We can all take our pick.

 

[9mmepiphany]

"Mentioning guns and shooting people could be seen as you being an immediate danger to the responding officers."

It won't matter, they'll see you as an immediate danger until they can physically determine otherwise. That is why you should expect to be taken at gunpoint, proned out, handcuffed and place in the back of a squad car

 

[Loosedhorse]

^^As I mentioned, I already expect that.

I also expect that tensions will be running high, and the higher they run, the more likely I am to get shot. If I can avoid saying anything that gets tensions higher, I will.

If that "won't matter" as you say, well, we see things differently. What's that phrase about SD? It ain't the odds, it's the stakes.

 

[Walkalong]

Sam's answer is excellent.

It is concise, to the point, & true.

It lets them know the relevant info that you were attacked, you defended yourself by shooting the attacker, that you have put the gun away, what you look like, where you will be, and that you will cooperate fully when police arrive.

Pretty much perfect.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Sam1911: My gut feeling is if at all possible, I'd want to be the caller. But circumstances might dictate otherwise.

Let's keep pulling on that one. Is it safe for you to call? Do you have reason to be confident that there are no accomplices in the area? Is it possible that the injured attacker still constitutes a serious danger?

As Al Thompson put it, "Good to always assume there's one more bad guy and he's trying to flank you. Or that the BG you popped has another gun and if you get close, he may be really mad and want to even the score."

Just a few thoughts...

 

[Derek Zeanah]

What ARE you going to say when the dispatcher says, "Who is hurt? How? How badly?" and so forth?

I don't think you're going to say "I defended myself and the attacker has a gunshot wound...you figure it out!"

My response would probably be something like "Maam, I understand that you're doing your job, but you need to understand my situation. Someone just tried to kill me. I shot him in self defense. I am staying in the area until the police arrive, but I have to assume that the guy that tried to kill me had friends. I cannot speak to you and maintain awareness of my surroundings. Please just listen until the police show up."

Assuming, of course, that I can articulate my meaning in such a situation.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Derek Zeanah: My response would probably be something like "Maam, I understand that you're doing your job, but you need to understand my situation. Someone just tried to kill me. I shot him in self defense. I am staying in the area until the police arrive, but I have to assume that the guy that tried to kill me had friends. I cannot speak to you and maintain awareness of my surroundings. Please just listen until the police show up."

I think that will likely form the basis for another part of the final summation on this, but I do think that if the approximate number of injured persons is at all evident to me I would mention it, to enable a sufficient timely response.

Assuming, of course, that I can articulate my meaning in such a situation.

Yes indeed, and that might well be a challenge.

And that's a very good reason to not recount any details, whether asked for or not. number of shots fired, specific number of suspects, whatever...

 

[Loosedhorse]

As Al Thompson put it, "Good to always assume there's one more bad guy and he's trying to flank you.

I have no problem with appropriate paranoia. However, there has to be a limit ("What if you ask a guy to cal 911, and it's actually an accomplice, and he calls two friends who are waiting outside dressed like cops...").

If you have gotten to a place where you feel you can holster, then you can call--is that reasonable?

In truth, a lot of this will be out of our hands. Cell phones used to be rarer, and people used to use them infrequently (because of the high rates). These days, if you have to defend yourself in a public place, you may find that almost half of the witnesses are already on a cell; it's a fair bet that at least a few will "beat you to the punch" in calling 911. Maybe some will video you.

That does not mean you should not call: if you can, as soon as you can.

 

[Hk Dan]

I might add "the armed assailant is down and is being held at gunpoint by an armed citizen. He has blue jeans on and an OD Marine Corps shirt (description)"

 

[9mmepiphany]

If you have gotten to a place where you feel you can holster, then you can call--is that reasonable?

I would be extremely reluctant to have my attacker out of my sight or to holster prior to officers arriving on the scene.

I'm actually torn on the pros and cons of holstering (control) vs. placing the gun atop a car or other surface (not having to disarm or be disarmed)

 

[Bigkrackers]

It may or may not be important, but chances are fair to good that someone is also video recording all of this. Most likely after the shooting so what is recorded will be some what out of context.

What you are telling the 911 dispatch should match your actions.

 

[Al Thompson]

someone is also video recording all of this

Excellent point. Don't do anything you wouldn't be OK with having your family watch.

Around here, your average Police response time is like a light switch - either really quick or really slow. That 911 operator may be your life line.

On another note, if you don't know the address, give directions from the nearest intersection. "Parking lot of the Hardys at Piney Grove and Zimalcrest may be the best you can do".

 

[Owen Sparks]

The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution states that no person "shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself" Wouldn't calling the cops to report shooting someone be "witnessing against yoiurself"? Besides, shooting someone in self-defense IS LEGAL so there is no crime to report.