Nightcrawler
Member
They seem to be all the rage in TV in film now, at least the P90 is.
There are two out there, that I know of. One is the FN P90 submachine gun, and the other is the H&K PDW. The HK model is not yet in full scale production. FN has also produced the Five-Seven pistol, a companion sidearm for their submachine gun.
Both are an attempt to garner soft armor penetration out of pistol rounds, and both succeed by using small bore, high velocity bullets. Their penetration is impressive, but their other ballistics are...well, not so much.
The FN 5.7x28mm SS190 round features a 31 grain bullet that leaves the barrel at 2,346 feet per second, and produces roughly 378 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.
The H&K 4.6x30mm round utilizes a 24.7 grain bullet at roughly 2,378 feet per second, for about 310 foot-pounds of energy.
Both rounds will easily slide through soft armor, to their credit, and that is something that even .44 Magnum won't do. However, it IS something that nearly any rifle round would do.
Both rounds also have a very low recoil impulse for making fast follow-up shots. On the other hand, at least from my point of view they are both rather lacking in the energy department, and have very small bore diameters to boot. Making matters worse would be the use of subsonic ammunition in either piece, for suppressed work. You can only make a bullet that small so heavy. The 5.7mm Sb193 subsonic round fires a 55 grain bullet at 984 feet per second. I'd much rather have a 230 grain or 255 grain bullet (from .45ACP or .45 Colt) going at that speed. But then, neither .45 will defeat soft armor.
The question is, can 9mm, .40, 10mm, and .45 be loaded to defeat soft armor, flak jackets, and kevlar helmets?
Don't get me wrong. I think both are very cool, and am glad to see such innovation. But I'm wondering what the real-world unility of either piece is. I know they were INTENDED for rear-echelon troops, but in all honesty there's no reason that support troops can't carry rifles like they do now, especially lightweight and handy rifles and carbines like the M16 and M4.
I also don't know what kind of permanent wound profile either of these rounds makes, but I imagine it's not that impressive. Sure, you give the badguy two holes to bleed out of, but I'd rather give him two BIG holes.
So, without actually being able to test one, what do you think? Do either of these weapons have a place on the battlefield? What about for law enforcement? Should police be carrying P90s and Five-Seven pistols instead of MP5s/M4s and 9mm or .40 pistols?
Let's pretend that the country was as it SHOULD be and all three weapons were available on the market. Would you buy the P90? The Five-Seven pistol? The HK PDW? Would you CCW the Five-Seven pistol, or use it for home defense? What about either of the subguns?
Finally, one last question. The P90 magazines originally had a problem in that they were fragile, and dropping a partially loaded mag would cause the rounds to scatter in it, making for a pretty nasty jam. Have they fixed this?
There are two out there, that I know of. One is the FN P90 submachine gun, and the other is the H&K PDW. The HK model is not yet in full scale production. FN has also produced the Five-Seven pistol, a companion sidearm for their submachine gun.
Both are an attempt to garner soft armor penetration out of pistol rounds, and both succeed by using small bore, high velocity bullets. Their penetration is impressive, but their other ballistics are...well, not so much.
The FN 5.7x28mm SS190 round features a 31 grain bullet that leaves the barrel at 2,346 feet per second, and produces roughly 378 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.
The H&K 4.6x30mm round utilizes a 24.7 grain bullet at roughly 2,378 feet per second, for about 310 foot-pounds of energy.
Both rounds will easily slide through soft armor, to their credit, and that is something that even .44 Magnum won't do. However, it IS something that nearly any rifle round would do.
Both rounds also have a very low recoil impulse for making fast follow-up shots. On the other hand, at least from my point of view they are both rather lacking in the energy department, and have very small bore diameters to boot. Making matters worse would be the use of subsonic ammunition in either piece, for suppressed work. You can only make a bullet that small so heavy. The 5.7mm Sb193 subsonic round fires a 55 grain bullet at 984 feet per second. I'd much rather have a 230 grain or 255 grain bullet (from .45ACP or .45 Colt) going at that speed. But then, neither .45 will defeat soft armor.
The question is, can 9mm, .40, 10mm, and .45 be loaded to defeat soft armor, flak jackets, and kevlar helmets?
Don't get me wrong. I think both are very cool, and am glad to see such innovation. But I'm wondering what the real-world unility of either piece is. I know they were INTENDED for rear-echelon troops, but in all honesty there's no reason that support troops can't carry rifles like they do now, especially lightweight and handy rifles and carbines like the M16 and M4.
I also don't know what kind of permanent wound profile either of these rounds makes, but I imagine it's not that impressive. Sure, you give the badguy two holes to bleed out of, but I'd rather give him two BIG holes.
So, without actually being able to test one, what do you think? Do either of these weapons have a place on the battlefield? What about for law enforcement? Should police be carrying P90s and Five-Seven pistols instead of MP5s/M4s and 9mm or .40 pistols?
Let's pretend that the country was as it SHOULD be and all three weapons were available on the market. Would you buy the P90? The Five-Seven pistol? The HK PDW? Would you CCW the Five-Seven pistol, or use it for home defense? What about either of the subguns?
Finally, one last question. The P90 magazines originally had a problem in that they were fragile, and dropping a partially loaded mag would cause the rounds to scatter in it, making for a pretty nasty jam. Have they fixed this?