What does "condition one" mean to you?

[1911Tuner]

I didn't either - but military practice these days (not 1911,) means if you carry a loaded pistol on duty, it's cocked and locked. I had 6 months duty with a M9 in daily carry, and voila, I got used to it real quick in a duty belt rig.

That'd be quite a trick with the M9. When you engage the safety, it activates the hammer drop.

 

[gym]

Meant for the 1911 style pistol

 

[2wheels]

Similar to a few people here, I believe that "condition one" only applies to 1911s and other similar SAO handguns that can be carried with a round in the chamber, hammer cocked, and safety on.

The conditions were only meant to apply to 1911s, and they only sorta work when applied to other handguns.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Similar to a few people here, I believe that "condition one" only applies to 1911s and other similar SAO handguns that can be carried with a round in the chamber, hammer cocked, and safety on.

The conditions were only meant to apply to 1911s, and they only sorta work when applied to other handguns.

Not correct.

The various conditions are defined for the weapon in question, that includes the M9. This makes sense, owing to the various differences in weapon designs.

This is Condition 1 for the M9, as defined by OPNAV INSTRUCTION 3591.1F, which I linked to in post #16:

Condition 1: Safety on (M9), slide forward, magazine inserted, round in chamber, hammer forward.


In comparison, Condition 1 for the 1911 is: Safety on, slide forward, magazine inserted, round in chamber, hammer cocked. Often refered to as "cocked and locked".

 

[2wheels]

Not correct.

The various conditions are defined for the weapon in question, that includes the M9. This makes sense, owing to the various differences in weapon designs.

The military as well as anyone else may use the same terminology and define it however they wish, but the only "conditions" that most people are familiar with really only apply to SAO handguns.

If you refer to a "condition 0-4" when discussing other types of handguns, such as the DA/SA M9 or a striker fired Glock, it might not make much sense to the person you're trying to communicate with because you're using a different set of definitions that most people aren't familiar with because we normally don't use those terms unless we're discussing SAO handguns.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The military as well as anyone else may use the same terminology and define it however they wish, but the only "conditions" that most people are familiar with really only apply to SAO handguns.

If you refer to a "condition 0-4" when discussing other types of handguns, such as the DA/SA M9 or a striker fired Glock, it might not make much sense to the person you're trying to communicate with because you're using a different set of definitions that most people aren't familiar with because we normally don't use those terms unless we're discussing SAO handguns.

You are correct. What "Condition 1" (or any other condition) actually is is defined by the governing documents for the service(s). And those conditions are defined based on the weapon.

The services train on these definitions...but they DO exist for the various firearms.

So, if a Sailor on a submarine does a watch turnover and at the completion of his turnover his M9 is in "Condition 1", then it's in the clearly defined status which represents "Condition 1" for his weapon as outlined in the governing document.

If a SEAL team member is carrying a 1911 style pistol and places his weapon in "Condition 1", then it's in the clearly defined status which represents "Condition 1" for his weapon as well.


If the military had Glocks, then they would define what "Condition 1" meant for that, as well.


The problem most people outside the military have is a conceptual error that these conditions are universal in nature...and as you said, this is not so because not all weapons are functionally identical. This tends to lead many of these people to misunderstand what condition a given firearm is actually in.

 

[tipoc]

The designations Cooper developed were not and are not military designations. The U.S. Army had it's own terminology for the 1911. Cooper's were developed by him as an aid in training and only meant for the 1911, BHP and other single action sidearms with external safeties. They are useful still and in no way outdated when applied for the guns they were meant for.

They can be applied to the CZ75 and it's direct descendents.

They don't apply to the Sig P220, a Glock, or an M9. They lose their meaning when applied to those guns.

Just as you can't button up a coat that only has a zipper, so Condition One has no meaning for a pistol without a hammer or a safety to "lock".

This isn't a matter on consensus either The Col.s conditions apply only to certain guns not to revolvers, da/sa pistols or dao pistols.

tipoc

 

[Inebriated]

I just take "Condition 1" to mean there's a round in the chamber.

Lot of worthless nitpicking here.

 

[peacemaker45]

Condition One is loaded magazine, loaded chamber, hammer/striker cocked, and safety engaged. It doesn't matter if it's a rifle, shotgun or pistol, the definition is the same.

 

[tipoc]

Mat, Not Welcome Mat,

Condition One is loaded magazine, loaded chamber, hammer/striker cocked, and safety engaged. It doesn't matter if it's a rifle, shotgun or pistol, the definition is the same.

In yo head, but no place else!

From Inebriated,

I just take "Condition 1" to mean there's a round in the chamber.

Only true when one is "Inebriated". Otherwise, not!

Fellas are making up their own definitions and they are contradictory from one person to the next as a result.

So if a revolver has the hammer down on a loaded chamber it's what? Condition 2! and if it's cocked it's Condition 1? Or is it the other way round? Makes no sense.

Cooper's conditions apply only to single action semis and were not meant for something else.

It's like calling a 4 door sedan a truck just cuz they can both haul stuff. Just cuz a fella believes the definition makes sense to them.

Once we leave the 1911, BHP etc. folks can see that the conditions don't apply to other type firearms. A person can make up their own definition but don't expect others to recognize it's worth.

The only weapon with a set of widely recognized "conditions", which are not military designations but civilian designations is the 1911 (BHP and others). These have been known for decades in the shooting community internationally, They come from Cooper. They are different from the old military designations.

The military have their own designations for various firearms. Outside the military these are not widely known, even among shooters.

tipoc

 

[ATLDave]

As many others have noted, translating the "conditions" to firearms with other operating modes is a challenge. If one wants to do it, then one might logically derive the following from Cooper's designations:

Condition 0: The gun is 100% ready to fire, with the hammer (or striker) pre-loaded. For guns that cock their own hammer as part of the operation of firing, the state of the gun in the middle of a string of fire.
Condition 1: The gun has a round chambered and the firing mechanism charged/cocked/under tension or compression AND there is a safety which makes pulling the trigger insufficient to discharge the firearm. Guns without a safety device are unable to achieve this condition.
Condition 2: The gun has a round chambered, but the firing mechanism is not cocked/under tension or compression/charged. The firing mechanism might be charged manually (cocking) or as part of a DA trigger pull. A revolver with the hammer down is in this condition, as is a DAO semi-auto with the hammer down.
Condition 2.5: Hammer is down on a live round, safety is on. Firing the gun will require deactivating the safety and charging the firing system. Impossible with a 1911, but possible with some other guns (including, but not limited to, guns like the M9 that have a combined safety/decocker).
Condition 3: Loaded magazine, hammer down on empty chamber. "Israeli carry."
Condition 3.5: See 2.5, but with no round chambered.
Condition 4: No rounds in pistol.
Condition 4.5: See 3.5, but with a safety on.

The hardest question would be how to characterize striker-fired pistols that partially charge the firing mechanism, but still require some additional energy from the trigger and have no safety. They are either going to be in Condition 0 or Condition 2 when they are loaded. From a functional point of view, those with short-ish trigger pulls, like Glocks, are basically in Condition 0 when loaded and at rest. But that would be a grey area.

All the above is not offered as "the answer." It isn't. It's just a little mental exercise.

 

[Inebriated]

Only true when one is "Inebriated". Otherwise, not!

Fellas are making up their own definitions and they are contradictory from one person to the next as a result.

So if a revolver has the hammer down on a loaded chamber it's what? Condition 2! and if it's cocked it's Condition 1? Or is it the other way round? Makes no sense.

You assume that I am proposing that "the gun is chambered" is the definition. No... I know the definitions. The thread asks you to say what it means to you. To me, when someone says it's condition one, I assume there's a round in the chamber and that they shouldn't touch the trigger. Why do I care if the safety is on or the shirt's tucked in or the A/C is on 70? Sorry, I respect Jeff Cooper as much as the next guy, but if you want everyone to know that the gun is chambered and has the safety on, just say the damn gun is chambered and that the safety on. It is not a difficult thing to do.

 

[WC145]

I use the term Condition One as Cooper did, meaning cocked and locked, and only use it when referencing pistols that can be carried in such a manner - 1911, BHP, some CZs, some FNs, etc.