wally
Member
See this in a lot of sigs, what does ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕʹ signify?
Its all Greek to me, my reading of ancient languages stops with FORTRAN
--wally.
Its all Greek to me, my reading of ancient languages stops with FORTRAN
--wally.
What does it mean?
- Thread starter wally
- Start date
- Status
OP
OP
wally
Member
Thanks! I like it!
--wally.
--wally.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Molon Labe
...or loosely translated:
Come on down and GIT some!
An even looser translation is:
Ah'm yuh Huckleberry...
...or loosely translated:
Come on down and GIT some!
An even looser translation is:
Ah'm yuh Huckleberry...
Black Snowman
Member
Thanks for the link. I updated my sig for ease of reference in the future
horge
Member
Neither Herodotus and Thucydides (the contemporary Greek chroniclers of the time) ever mention "molon labe"
The source for the quote is Plutarch, (writing in 1 AD --half a millennium after the event)
Пάλιν δὲ τοῦ Ξέρξου γράψαντος 'πέμψον τὰ ὅπλα' ἀντέγραψε 'μολὼν λαβέ'
(to Xerxes demand, "hand over your arms," [Leonidas] retorted, "come and get them".)
Moralia, III, Apophthegmata Laconica
The lack of contemporary record opens the quote to suspicion.
While Plutarch (a Greek living in Roman times) may have been several centuries removed from the events at Thermopylae, we can assume that a heck of a lot more that neither Herodotus nor Thucydides set into writing was preserved as oral tradition, and perhaps Plutarch stumbled upon an accurate bit of such.
Plutarch, is really hamstrung not only by the remove of several hundred years from the events he attempts to describe, but by his repeated, provable errors and outright fabrications in the course of his fawning 'comparisons' of the Romans to the mighty Greeks of old.
On the other hand, neither Herodotus nor Thucydides were actual eyewitnesses to the battle (obviously) and thus relied on local rumor and probably a few partial witnesses. Those two 'contemporary' chroniclers were furthermore subject to making severe errors, and could even resort to outright invention when providing 'missing' detail: Herodotus offers a bogus explanation for Xerxes' elite troops being called "Immortals" ---that there was always an instant replacement for any who fell in battle-- when Herodotus merely confused the similar-sounding Persian words for 'Companion' and 'Immortal'. Xerxes' elite troops were literally his companions everywhere.
So.. anyway, did Leonidas really utter those words 'molon labe'?.
Herodotus doesn't really mention it, but he still provides some great supporting evidence.
He relates the Spartan Dienekes waxing with such shade-loving wit.
Did Herodotus make that up? Not likely. Herodotus seems to be the sort, all too inclined to inflate the bravery and brilliance of Athens at the expense of Sparta. (Thucydides was yet another 'proud' Athenian)
Now, if Dienekes could realy be so (there's no other way to put it) laconic...
and if laconism is to be taken as a 'national characteristic' of the Lakonians
(or Lakedaimonians; or Spartans if you like)
...then why wouldn't a King among them possess a laconic wit of kingly proportions?
The source for the quote is Plutarch, (writing in 1 AD --half a millennium after the event)
Пάλιν δὲ τοῦ Ξέρξου γράψαντος 'πέμψον τὰ ὅπλα' ἀντέγραψε 'μολὼν λαβέ'
(to Xerxes demand, "hand over your arms," [Leonidas] retorted, "come and get them".)
Moralia, III, Apophthegmata Laconica
The lack of contemporary record opens the quote to suspicion.
While Plutarch (a Greek living in Roman times) may have been several centuries removed from the events at Thermopylae, we can assume that a heck of a lot more that neither Herodotus nor Thucydides set into writing was preserved as oral tradition, and perhaps Plutarch stumbled upon an accurate bit of such.
Plutarch, is really hamstrung not only by the remove of several hundred years from the events he attempts to describe, but by his repeated, provable errors and outright fabrications in the course of his fawning 'comparisons' of the Romans to the mighty Greeks of old.
On the other hand, neither Herodotus nor Thucydides were actual eyewitnesses to the battle (obviously) and thus relied on local rumor and probably a few partial witnesses. Those two 'contemporary' chroniclers were furthermore subject to making severe errors, and could even resort to outright invention when providing 'missing' detail: Herodotus offers a bogus explanation for Xerxes' elite troops being called "Immortals" ---that there was always an instant replacement for any who fell in battle-- when Herodotus merely confused the similar-sounding Persian words for 'Companion' and 'Immortal'. Xerxes' elite troops were literally his companions everywhere.
So.. anyway, did Leonidas really utter those words 'molon labe'?.
Herodotus doesn't really mention it, but he still provides some great supporting evidence.
He relates the Spartan Dienekes waxing with such shade-loving wit.
Did Herodotus make that up? Not likely. Herodotus seems to be the sort, all too inclined to inflate the bravery and brilliance of Athens at the expense of Sparta. (Thucydides was yet another 'proud' Athenian)
Now, if Dienekes could realy be so (there's no other way to put it) laconic...
and if laconism is to be taken as a 'national characteristic' of the Lakonians
(or Lakedaimonians; or Spartans if you like)
...then why wouldn't a King among them possess a laconic wit of kingly proportions?
Last edited:
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
wally,
If you like to read, get yourself a copy of _Gates Of Fire_. I think that will pretty much cover any explanation you might need.
Yeah, it's a novel. So what? If it _didn't_ happen that way, it SHOULD have!
lpl/nc
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553580531/002-5685759-6985632
If you like to read, get yourself a copy of _Gates Of Fire_. I think that will pretty much cover any explanation you might need.
Yeah, it's a novel. So what? If it _didn't_ happen that way, it SHOULD have!
lpl/nc
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553580531/002-5685759-6985632
TallPine
Member
Isn't "molon labe" a greek phrase that means "bullets first" ...?
joe sixpack
Member
1911Tuner posted:
An even looser translation is:
Ah'm yuh Huckleberry
--------------
Lol (didn't Johnny Carson in the character of Carnac the Magnificent
say that once?)
cheers, ab
An even looser translation is:
Ah'm yuh Huckleberry
--------------
Lol (didn't Johnny Carson in the character of Carnac the Magnificent
say that once?)
cheers, ab
Tamara
Senior Member
Leonidas, of course, had stolen the idea for his response from the Texans at Gonzales.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re:
Tamara said:
Leonidas, of course, had stolen the idea for his response from the Texans at Gonzales.
_____________________
Now...Ain't that a daisy?
Tamara said:
Leonidas, of course, had stolen the idea for his response from the Texans at Gonzales.
_____________________
Now...Ain't that a daisy?
Oscar Orum
Member
Come and take it
Tamara is on the ball. The event occured in a peach orchard in the community of Cost, Texas a short distance from the town of Gonzales. "In mid September 1835, Mexican General Cos landed in Matagorda Bay and proceeded overland to Bexar. This was the first step toward disarming the people of Texas, and to secure a four-pounder cannon which had been placed at Gonzales by the Mexican Government for the defense of the settlement against the Comanches. His demand for the cannon was refused by the colonists and a detachment of about one hundred Mexican cavalry under command of Lieutenant Francisco Castonando was sent to take it.
Upon arriving near Gonzales, on September 28, 1835 a small company of eighteen men (six of them Masons – Winslow Turner, William W Arrington, Valentine Bennet, Almeron Dickenson, G W Davis, and Charles Mason) “The Old Eighteenâ€, held the Mexican force at bay until reinforcements could arrive. On October 2, 1835 a battle ensued, which has been called the Lexington of the Texas Revolution" (Taken fro the Grand Lodge of Texas wib site)
Tamara is on the ball. The event occured in a peach orchard in the community of Cost, Texas a short distance from the town of Gonzales. "In mid September 1835, Mexican General Cos landed in Matagorda Bay and proceeded overland to Bexar. This was the first step toward disarming the people of Texas, and to secure a four-pounder cannon which had been placed at Gonzales by the Mexican Government for the defense of the settlement against the Comanches. His demand for the cannon was refused by the colonists and a detachment of about one hundred Mexican cavalry under command of Lieutenant Francisco Castonando was sent to take it.
Upon arriving near Gonzales, on September 28, 1835 a small company of eighteen men (six of them Masons – Winslow Turner, William W Arrington, Valentine Bennet, Almeron Dickenson, G W Davis, and Charles Mason) “The Old Eighteenâ€, held the Mexican force at bay until reinforcements could arrive. On October 2, 1835 a battle ensued, which has been called the Lexington of the Texas Revolution" (Taken fro the Grand Lodge of Texas wib site)
- Status
